Eternal Security of the Believer

[Alfred Persson]

And the Deity in Christ is the Fathers.

If you read this as Sherlock Holmes would, you would deduce God is One in Essence, but Three Equals as to Persons. A "Name" in scripture captures the essence, the "components" as it were.

Notice "name" is singular even though Three Persons (Father Son Holy Spirit) are named:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." -Matthew 28:19 NKJ

Sherlock would deduce God is One as to essence, but three equals as to Persons:

"Baptise in God Father Son and Holy Spirit.'

ALL of God is the Father, ALL of God is the Son, ALL of God is the Holy Spirit.

The Deity in Christ therefore is Christ's.

I found the following book very helpful when I first started learning about our LORD Jesus. He is awesome:

Jesus Christ Our Lord – June 1, 1969​

by John F. Walvoord (Author)

Jesus is both fully human and fully God, both natures are united in the One Person that is Jesus.
In other words, the Sphere of infinite Radius that God the Son, is centered in the humanity of Jesus Christ.

While your wording can be considered heretical, I'm sure you didn't mean it to be.

Some in the Eastern Orthodox Church speak of the "Monarchy" of God because as to Persons the Father is the Father. The Son the Father's Only Begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(Jn. 1:14 NKJ)

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. (Jn. 15:26 NKJ)

East and West argue about the Filioque addition to the creed. I agree with the East.

As God never changes, the "generation" denoted by Christ being the Father's Only Begotten Son must be eternal, hence the term "Eternal Generation".

There are a wealth of books on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the reality of this truth is clearly part of the fabric of OT and NT scripture. Visit any Christian Book store. You might like "Lectures in Systematic Theology" by Thiessen is also a good read.

 

[Randy]

What did Jesus say he was going to do? He was going to prepare a place for us. That is something no mere man can do. If you strip the flesh away from his earthly body you are left with the Father. Be careful not to commit blasphemy or deny Jesus like Judas did. Think back about everything you have said. Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit. He is the boss. It is Jesus we shall all have to answer to. He is the I AM in human flesh, He is "God with us."

I don't know how many times I need to tell you.

Jesus is all that the Father is for in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell.

And again the thread is not that topic.

 

[Cooper]

I don't know how many times I need to tell you.

Jesus is all that the Father is for in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell.

And again the thread is not that topic.

The nature of the omnipresent God is that He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit rolled into one. A three dimensional God in a three dimensional world of His creation. A three dimensional box with one side removed is not a box. John 1:1 tells us the Word was God and Jesus is the Word. I am not convinced you think of Jesus as anything more than a man, which is pointless, because no man can take the sins of the world upon himself, so that all who come to him will be saved. Only God can take away the sins of the world and that is what concerns me regarding people who do not have tha conviction. I want for everyone to be saved. God bless.

 

[Randy]

The nature of the omnipresent God is that He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit rolled into one. A three dimensional God in a three dimensional world of His creation. A three dimensional box with one side removed is not a box. John 1:1 tells us the Word was God and Jesus is the Word. I am not convinced you think of Jesus as anything more than a man, which is pointless, because no man can take the sins of the world upon himself, so that all who come to him will be saved. Only God can take away the sins of the world and that is what concerns me regarding people who do not have tha conviction. I want for everyone to be saved. God bless.

Be convinced
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

I see Jesus as the first being GOD called into existence, (His spirit),before the world began. Before Genesis, Before all things. At that beginning God was pleased to have His Deity in fullness to dwell in Jesus. Gifted not formed. Then the creation was made through Jesus and for Jesus and by Jesus. As in the Deity gifted in Him -The Father doing His work.
The firstborn is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact imprint of Gods being. Simply -All that the Father is. And He and the Father are one in that manner.

Because He is a Son the writer of Hebrews took great pains to show the name He inherited (Mighty God) is superior to Gods other children (The angels of God)

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

That's not just a man. That's Christ the Lord. He came from above and ascended to where He was before. The eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Alfred Persson
Don't repent if you make a mistake, making a mistake is no sin

Sinning has little to no impact of things eternal so feel free for Calvinists. Of course calvinists deny this and will tell you it makes a difference but if you ask what, exactly, they have no ideas and so cannot say if it makes a difference.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Those who follow Him; hearing and obeying His Voice, IOW those led by His Spirit shall never be plucked out of His hand.

Amen! We can rest assured in His promise!

GOD IS GOOD!


Now let’s discuss those who wander away from Him, choosing to depart from Him, desert Him, and turn away from Him to pursue their own way.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These in this group deserted Christ, departed from Him in a time of persecution and therefore they no longer believed.


Are these people who turned away from Christ in a time of persecution still saved?







JLB

Well said. As long as we hear him and obey him, no one outside of us, can snatch us out.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Sinning has little to no impact of things eternal so feel free for Calvinists. Of course calvinists deny this and will tell you it makes a difference but if you ask what, exactly, they have no ideas and so cannot say if it makes a difference.

Yeah, all they will say is that "God says we shouldn't sin." Of course that is no answer, since God does not just say things without a reason. I hope?

 

[Alfred Persson]

I see Jesus as the first being GOD called into existence, (His spirit),before the world began. Before Genesis, Before all things.

That contradicts Scripture. The Beginning is when God created, and the Word ALREADY WAS with God. Moreover, you say God called the Word "into existence", but Scripture says NOTHING was called into existence without the Word, in fact ALL THINGS were called into existence through Him:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

But you correctly noted your odd theories about God are way off topic for this thread, You should start a thread in Unorthodox Christian ideas" and discuss it there.

 

[Randy]

That contradicts Scripture. The Beginning is when God created, and the Word ALREADY WAS with God. Moreover, you say God called the Word "into existence", but Scripture says NOTHING was called into existence without the Word, in fact ALL THINGS were called into existence through Him:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

But you correctly noted your odd theories about God are way off topic for this thread, You should start a thread in Unorthodox Christian ideas" and discuss it there.

I have no desire to argue and argue the trinity. Here or elsewhere.
John is cohesive with my beliefs about the Son.
He was before the world began.
He was/is all that the Father is. Col 1:19 (God in that context)
All things were created through Him and for Him.

But He is the firstborn of all creation.
The Father is His God and the only true God.

 

[T. E. Smith]

The very term father indicates that there was a time when the son did not exist, and then the father eventually "bore", that is, created, him.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The very term father indicates that there was a time when the son did not exist, and then the father eventually "bore", that is, created, him.

Eternal Generation; Eternal Sonship. Theological terms you should look up. Your inference has been thoroughly debated in the Church, and rejected as unsound.

The idea the Son had a "beginning" contradicts other scriptures ruling out that possibility.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

The Beginning is in Genesis 1:1, when all things NOT God came into existence. The Word already WAS existing, therefore He is God and nothing was "born" or created without the Son.

Father Son expresses a real relationship, the Son is the Fathers "only begotten", theologians refer to this process as "generation", but as God does not change, and the Son is God, the "generation" is an ongoing process that has always been, and will always be: Eternal Generation. But that means your inference there was a time before the Son was "born", is wrong.

The evidence of Scripture is that Christ’s Sonship is eternal. We have noted the force of the term monogenes, “only begotten.” It is a very deep term and has given rise to the theological term the eternal generation of the Son. Begotten cannot denote anything but generation. At the same time, as we have seen, Christ’s Sonship is eternal and has in it no idea of inferiority of essence or posteriority of time. Thus we are shut up to the term eternal generation. Since we are describing the eternal God, it is understandable that human intelligence fails to define the term. We are limited to saying about God that which He has already said about Himself. The nearest thing to a definition of eternal generation which finite man can come to is that it is the communication of the divine essence by the Father to the Son from all eternity.

Arguing from John 1:14 and 17:5, J. C. Philpot puts the issue as clearly as anyone. His argument is in four steps leading to an inevitable conclusion.

“Jesus is the only begotten of the Father; this is the first step. As the only begotten of the Father He has a peculiar glory; this is the second step. This glory He had with the Father before the world was; this is the third step. As He could only possess this glory in His Divine nature, for His human did not then exist, He is the only begotten Son of God as God; this is the fourth step, and establishes the conclusion that He is the eternal Son of the Father, and that by eternal generation.” Cairns, A. (2002). In Dictionary of Theological Terms (p. 157). Ambassador Emerald International.

Believing in the Name of Jesus, that He is the Son of God, is so important John lists it as The reason he wrote his Gospel:

but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (Jn. 20:31 NKJ)

Therefore, everyone is advised to do their best to get this correct. Best way to do that is to study the debates this question raised down through the centuries. Do not let posts on a forum be your only source of information. Christian Book Stores are a great resource, as are Public Libraries.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The very term father indicates that there was a time when the son did not exist, and then the father eventually "bore", that is, created, him.

Do not the make the common mistake of assuming the words we use to describe things therefore limit those things to the common understanding of that word. “Father” is the best word we have to use to describe God, but our using that word doesn’t limit God to all the limitations of a human Father. There needn’t be a time when the Son didn’t exist, for example.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah, all they will say is that "God says we shouldn't sin." Of course that is no answer, since God does not just say things without a reason. I hope?

If we ask why you shouldn’t sin, they don’t know in general.

 

[jaybo]

The very term father indicates that there was a time when the son did not exist, and then the father eventually "bore", that is, created, him.

John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created." NET

Since this is what the Bible clearly says your statement has no merit.

"In the beginning" is a clear reference to Genesis 1:1, before the earth was created.

 

[T. E. Smith]

John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created." NET

Since this is what the Bible clearly says your statement has no merit.

"In the beginning" is a clear reference to Genesis 1:1, before the earth was created.

All the indicates is that Jesus existed before the earth, which I agree with. God exists eternally, then he created Jesus, and then he created the world. Thus "in the beginning", referring to Genesis 1:1, Jesus existed.

 

[jaybo]

All the indicates is that Jesus existed before the earth, which I agree with. God exists eternally, then he created Jesus, and then he created the world. Thus "in the beginning", referring to Genesis 1:1, Jesus existed.

Where in the Bible do you think it says that God created Jesus before He created the world? John 1:1-2 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning." There is nothing there that implies that he created Jesus, and then he created the world.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Frankly speaking, the state of the Son of God before the worlds were made is several notches above our pay grade, all of us.

 

[Randy]

Where in the Bible do you think it says that God created Jesus before He created the world? John 1:1-2 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning." There is nothing there that implies that he created Jesus, and then he created the world.

Jesus always used God to refer to His Father.
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Now Rev 3:14
...the beginning of the creation of GOD(The Father)

The firstborn of all creation

Col 1:19 - from the will of another at a point in history before the world began. Why would God and there is only One need to receive the fullness from another? Wouldn't God be that Deity already?

Also speaks of another like Hebrews 1. "All things were created through Him and FOR Him"

Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was GOD how then do you believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Repeated in many of Pauls' letters
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

If Jesus always was and always was God how then did He become the Son?

If Jesus is not the Fathers Son whose Son is He?

Why does Jesus call the Father His God?

Why did a God and there is only on who always was need to receive life in Himself from another?
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

Why did God and there is only one need to receive authority from another?
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Begotten before all worlds but not made - I agree IN PART

Do you think when Jesus was in Mary's crib this was done through Him as people were born into the world in those days.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares

 

[Randy]

All the indicates is that Jesus existed before the earth, which I agree with. God exists eternally, then he created Jesus, and then he created the world. Thus "in the beginning", referring to Genesis 1:1, Jesus existed.

To this question "Is Jesus God?"
I received this answer from above.

He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

Now the Son of Man was put to death in the flesh but lives according to the spirit. Man can kill the body but only God can kill both body and soul.

 

[Cooper]

The very term father indicates that there was a time when the son did not exist, and then the father eventually "bore", that is, created, him.

So God came down from heaven's glory and became God on earth while remaining God in heaven. This is the one omnipresent God in heaven as on earth, except he made himself visible.