Eternal Security of the Believer

[Randy]

So, Jesus doesn't really exist, the "Son" is the Father in a different mode or manifestation? Jesus isn't human as he doesn't have a human spirit?

AND directly states. This is my belief
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Your belief is the Father alone exists, when Paul says "and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live" that is an illusion, Jesus is actually the fullness of the Father?

Jesus exists as always. But a being doesn't change their spirit. The Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body God prepared for Him. The same spirit He committed into the Fathers hands on the cross.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. - His spirit is not human nor ever human.

Yes Jesus is my Lord and the Father created the creation through and for and by Him. But the Deity in the Son is the Fathers so it was as in the Son of Man the Father in Him creating.

One God; One Lord
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

What name did Jesus inherit that is far superior to Gods angels? - Mighty God - Col 1:19

You don't have to believe me as it was Jesus, the head of the body of Christ, who declared the Father as the "ONLY" true God and His God. It was He who stated the Father was living in Him doing His work. So maybe your problem is with Him not me.

 

[Randy]

So if there is only "one Spirit" Jesus doesn't have a spirit? Only God's essence is in Jesus, His "fullness" and nothing belonging to Jesus Himself?

There is only one true God the Father. He has a Spirit. The Spirit of God. "One Spirit" -The Spirit Jesus sends in "His" name He received from the Father. Acts 2

Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of the one who sent Him and that one is known as the Sovereign Lord. And Again Jesus is speaking of another. We know clearly from other testimony that the Father sent Jesus and Jesus came to do the Fathers Will.

The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,

There is a difference in what you believe God the Spirit then what's found in the NT the Spirit OF God.

I don't read God the Spirit
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth.

Jude
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Its the Fathers salvation. He is the one who sent and anointed Jesus.

he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.

In these last days the Father has spoken to us by His Son.

 

[Randy]

I asked Randy what he believed. I'm Orthodox Trinitarian friend.

And I asked you if Jesus had a human body and a human spirit what part of Him was God.
If your orthodox then to you Jesus is fully God and fully human. So even though it doesn't make any bit of sense your answer should be "all of Him". I don't think those who came up with such doctrines explained them to well for you. For like us Jesus was body and spirit. If they claim they are both human it kind of leaves you hanging.

 

[JLB]

I didn't reply in two parts for you to ignore it completely and keep asking relatively stupid questions.

This type of statement is uncalled for. Please refrain from such comments that are derogatory in nature against others.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What name did Jesus inherit that is far superior to Gods angels? -

Jesus inherited His Father's name, the name about all names.

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
John 17:11


JLB

 

[Randy]

Jesus inherited His Father's name, the name about all names.

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
John 17:11


JLB

I agree and since He is a Son the writer of Hebrews took great pains to point out that the name Jesus inherited is far superior to Gods other children the angels of God.

So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Why do you believe the only eternal God needs to receive anything from another such as authority?

Also why do you believe the only eternal living God would need to inherit anything from another? Wouldn't such things already be His?
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

You won't find where the Father received anything from any other being and its clear to me the Father is the one who glorifies His Son and He is the one who has reconciled things in earth and heaven to Himself through His Son.

And don't you see a difference from being the only Deity then having that same Deity dwell in Jesus at the will of another?
Col 1:19

 

[Alfred Persson]

This type of statement is uncalled for. Please refrain from such comments that are derogatory in nature against others.


JLB

Feel free to take my place, and answer his questions. Have fun.

 

[Cooper]

I asked Randy what he believed. I'm Orthodox Trinitarian friend.

This thread has gone off topic and I had not realised. I was responding to a post instead of the thread in hand. My mistake.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This type of statement is uncalled for. Please refrain from such comments that are derogatory in nature against others.


JLB

You are right. I should have shown more respect for someone made in the image and likeness of God, and more love for someone whom Christ our LORD died for. I repent. I'll do better in the future.

 

[Alfred Persson]

And I asked you if Jesus had a human body and a human spirit what part of Him was God.
If your orthodox then to you Jesus is fully God and fully human. So even though it doesn't make any bit of sense your answer should be "all of Him". I don't think those who came up with such doctrines explained them to well for you. For like us Jesus was body and spirit. If they claim they are both human it kind of leaves you hanging.

The part that is not human, His divine nature.

Jesus has always been the Word of God, "in the beginning" when time began, the "Word already WAS" and nothing was created without Him, therefore it is elementary deduction He CANNOT be one of the things created. He couldn't create Himself:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

 

[Randy]

The part that is not human, His divine nature.

Jesus has always been the Word of God, "in the beginning" when time began, the "Word already WAS" and nothing was created without Him, therefore it is elementary deduction He CANNOT be one of the things created. He couldn't create Himself:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

But God is Spirit. You state Jesus of Nazareth body and spirit were human so what part of Him was His Divine nature?

 

[Alfred Persson]

But God is Spirit. You state Jesus of Nazareth body and spirit were human so what part of Him was His Divine nature?

Imagine you are standing in an atmosphere. What part of you, body soul and spirit, is not atmosphere?

What is atmosphere? Clearly, whatever is not body soul or spirit.

Its odd you can't comprehend One Person having two separate and distinct natures.

You are one person in three "natures": Body soul and spirit. What part of you is "spirit nature"? The part that isn't body or soul. What part of you is body? The nature that is not spirit or soul. What part of you is soul? The part that isn't body or spirit.

Man is the "reflex' or "mirror" image of God. God is One Substance in which Three Divine Persons subsist. Man is Three Substances in which One Person subsists.

Your Person is not your spirit, body or soul. Its you, not a substance, and yet its what says to itself "I am".

 

[Randy]

Imagine you are standing in an atmosphere. What part of you, body soul and spirit, is not atmosphere?

What is atmosphere? Clearly, whatever is not body soul or spirit.

Its odd you can't comprehend One Person having two separate and distinct natures.

You are one person in three "natures": Body soul and spirit. What part of you is "spirit nature"? The part that isn't body or soul. What part of you is body? The nature that is not spirit or soul. What part of you is soul? The part that isn't body or spirit.

Man is the "reflex' or "mirror" image of God. God is One Substance in which Three Divine Persons subsist. Man is Three Substances in which One Person subsists.

Your Person is not your spirit, body or soul. Its you, not a substance, and yet its what says to itself "I am".

I imagine you can't answer the question so I will answer it for you.
Jesus of Nazareth stated the divinity in Him and its just what I have been stating to you all along.
"It is the Father in me doing His work"

God rested from the creation on the 7th day.
Yet He states, "I form the spirit of man within him"
And when Jesus of Nazareth was in the cradle and on earth I highly doubt He participated in that process.
So it must not be considered part of the creation.

The beginning of the creation of the Father before all other things and the world began was forming Jesus's spirit. So that couldn't have been done through Jesus. Then God was pleased to have His Deity (without limit) or fullness dwell in Jesus. So His firstborn is the radiance of His glory and the exact imprint of His being. God
Then that which was described as made the Father made as in Jesus, by Jesus, through Jesus, and for Jesus all things were made.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Jesus was with the Father in that beginning and it was made through Him and He is all that the Father is. God in that context. As well as the Father being the only true God and Jesus's God for the Deity gifted to dwell in Jesus is the Fathers.

The Son who was before the world began, (His spirit), was in the body that God prepared for Him and the Father as Jesus stated was living in Him. There was no human spirit formed in Mary the virgin. Jesus didn't begin then. He came down from heaven.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I imagine you can't answer the question so I will answer it for you.
Jesus of Nazareth stated the divinity in Him and its just what I have been stating to you all along.
"It is the Father in me doing His work"

According to you, the Father is in His fulness, not Jesus. You say "the Father as Jesus stated was living in Him". So there is no Jesus, only the Father as Jesus.

You aren't making sense. Is English your native language?

 

[Alfred Persson]

God rested from the creation on the 7th day.
Yet He states, "I form the spirit of man within him"
And when Jesus of Nazareth was in the cradle and on earth I highly doubt He participated in that process.
So it must not be considered part of the creation.

Is English your native language?

Why would God resting on the 7th day mean He doesn't form human spirits every time someone is born?

Are we all born without spirit? Where is that in the Bible?

When Jesus was in the cradle, he was a baby infant just like any baby infant. So what "process" are you talking about??

Creation was an event taking 6 days, everything that exists does so because its "part of God's creation"

You are NOT making sense at all.

 

[JLB]

I agree and since He is a Son the writer of Hebrews took great pains to point out that the name Jesus inherited is far superior to Gods other children the angels of God.

So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Why do you believe the only eternal God needs to receive anything from another such as authority?

Because a son is always subject to his father, whether a human son and human father, or God the Son and God the Father.


In Hebrews chapter 1, the author is addressing the Old Testament appearing of the Angel of the Lord, which in Hebrew culture is a mystery.

The angel of the Lord is the Son of God, yet retains the title of God.


Please examine verses 8-10 —


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

• You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The writer of Hebrews seems to be quoting from Zechariah 12, where the Lord Jesus is speaking through the prophet Zechariah…


words of Christ in red -


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:, And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1,10




JLB

 

[JLB]

You are right. I should have shown more respect for someone made in the image and likeness of God, and more love for someone whom Christ our LORD died for. I repent. I'll do better in the future.

Thank you.

I can’t tell how many times I have had to do that myself.

God bless you.



JLB

 

[Randy]

According to you, the Father is in His fulness, not Jesus. You say "the Father as Jesus stated was living in Him". So there is no Jesus, only the Father as Jesus.

You aren't making sense. Is English your native language?

Yes I stated there was a Jesus and described Him from before the creation and as the Son of man.
Despite English being your native language you don't make any sense. A Human Jesus body and spirit who has a divine nature. Your attempt at trying to explain yourself was entertaining almost as much as your UFO theory.
But I tire of this subject. So I will end here.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Thank you.

I can’t tell how many times I have had to do that myself.

God bless you.



JLB

God chastised me severely. I was talking to a business acquaintance when an illegal on a bicycle rode up, masked and very humbly asked me something. I couldn't hear him and asked he repeat it. That repeated three times, until he came close enough so I could understand he wanted money.

"No" I blurted out, and I turned my back to him and said to those with me "I'm not giving him any money!"

After I drove off my conscience afflicted me. He was humble, I was haughty. He spoke softly, I spoke harshly. Did not Christ say "give to him who asks?"

Was I not like the Rich Man ignoring the plight of the poor? "Who are you to turn your back on someone made in the image of God, who Christ died for?" My conscience asked.

I drove back to the place looking for him, couldn't find him. If I do see him, I will definitely give him money and tell him Jesus loves him. Like someone did me when i was begging for money, in my younger homeless days.

I have resolved never to do that again. And then I recalled your admonition, which I thank you for, and responded.

My conscience still is tormenting me, no doubt to drive the point home.

Thanks again for your rebuke. I deserved it.

 

[Randy]

Because a son is always subject to his father, whether a human son and human father, or God the Son and God the Father.


In Hebrews chapter 1, the author is addressing the Old Testament appearing of the Angel of the Lord, which in Hebrew culture is a mystery.

The angel of the Lord is the Son of God, yet retains the title of God.


Please examine verses 8-10 —


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

• You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The writer of Hebrews seems to be quoting from Zechariah 12, where the Lord Jesus is speaking through the prophet Zechariah…


words of Christ in red -


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:, And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1,10




JLB

Jesus has always been the Son. The Father has always been His God.

Much of about the Son predates the Son of Man.

This is truth and was written for future generations. We will live because of Jesus. The life in Jesus is the Father. Jesus calls the Father truthfully as the only true God.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.