Eternal Security of the Believer

[Randy]

I need to understand what you mean by Spirit first.

So God's Spirit is unique. How big is it?

And you haven't explained how Jesus' Spirit came down from heaven and possessed Jesus' body. Did it stay there or return to heaven when He died? Is it in heaven now? Does it reside with the angel spirits in heaven?

You state Jesus is fully God.
Jesus doesn't share your view
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Are you correct and He is wrong?

I not aware of any scripture given that states the volume of the Spirit of the living God.

Why do you speak in terms of possession?
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

I think God has the capability to place Jesus's spirit, (His Son),in the body conceived by the Holy Spirit rather than forming/creating a Jesus in the womb don't you?

 

[Alfred Persson]

You state Jesus is fully God.
Jesus doesn't share your view
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Are you correct and He is wrong?

I not aware of any scripture given that states the volume of the Spirit of the living God.

Why do you speak in terms of possession?
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

I think God has the capability to place Jesus's spirit, (His Son),in the body conceived by the Holy Spirit rather than forming/creating a Jesus in the womb don't you?

You say Jesus' spirit came down from heaven and entered the human body of Jesus. That is possession, is it not?

How big is God's Spirit? Does He live in heaven surrounded by spirits who are somehow different from His Spirit.

His Spirit is not like a human spirit. Is it like angel spirits, only bigger?

You said God's Spirit "Divine, eternal, Holy, Truth"

But aren't angels "Divine, eternal, Holy, Truth?"

Or do you believe angels are lying unholy mortal spirits?

Explain yourself, What do you mean?

 

[Randy]

You say Jesus' spirit came down from heaven and entered the human body of Jesus. That is possession, is it not?

How big is God's Spirit? Does He live in heaven surrounded by spirits who are somehow different from His Spirit.

His Spirit is not like a human spirit. Is it like angel spirits, only bigger?

You said God's Spirit "Divine, eternal, Holy, Truth"

But aren't angels "Divine, eternal, Holy, Truth?"

Or do you believe angels are lying unholy mortal spirits?

Explain yourself, What do you mean?

No Angels are not Divine. How many Gods do you believe in?
Some fallen angels are lying spirits.
If only God is good how then do you ask me about the nature of angels?

You seem to try to divert from Jesus's spirit (as you state) is human and yet the scripture states there is only one Spirit in regard to God. So you believe in more than one God when Jesus became the Son of Man?

Possession is usually referred to a spirit occupying a body of another. The body Jesus occupied was prepared for Him.

Why do you ask me about the volume of the Spirit of the living God when such a size has never been given. I would assume vast.

So lets get back to what you ignore.

You state Jesus was fully God.
He doesn't share your belief.
Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

So I guess we can define Gods Spirit alone is good. No angels or humans nor the Son as Jesus replied. I would call Jesus good but He states otherwise.

So your right and Jesus is wrong?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Possession is usually referred to a spirit occupying a body of another. The body Jesus occupied why prepared for Him.

Why do you ask me about the volume of the Spirit of the living God when such a size has never been given. I would assume vast.

Explain how Jesus' spirit coming down from heaven and entering the body of Jesus is not possession.

So you say God's Spirit is Big, "Vast" unlike angel spirits who are not "divine"

Do I have that right?

So God is in heaven surrounded by non divine spirits who worship Him. Right?

The only difference between God's Spirit and angel spirits, is size and divinity. Right?

What element or thing makes one spirit divine and the other not divine?

 

[Randy]

Explain how Jesus' spirit coming down from heaven and entering the body of Jesus is not possession.

So you say God's Spirit is Big, "Vast" unlike angel spirits who are not "divine"

Do I have that right?

So God is in heaven surrounded by non divine spirits who worship Him. Right?

The only difference between God's Spirit and angel spirits, is size and divinity. Right?

What element or thing makes one spirit divine and the other not divine?

Angels don't create. They are not Divine. I don't know the volume of Gods Spirit. I can assume much.

I not going down this rabbit hole with you.

Lets get back to that which you try to divert and ignore.

You state Jesus is fully God
He doesn't share your belief.
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

So your right and He's wrong?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Angels don't create. They are not Divine. I don't know the volume of Gods Spirit. I can assume much.

I not going down this rabbit hole with you.

Lets get back to that which you try to divert and ignore.

You state Jesus is fully God
He doesn't share your belief.
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

So your right and He's wrong?

God is infinite, not just vast:

Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built! (1 Ki. 8:27 NKJ)

The universe is not infinite, the time and space bubble we live in exists in the infinite Being of God. To be Precise, it exists in God the Word:

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col. 1:16-17 NKJ)

So Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, in which all things consist and have their being:

28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.'
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:28-30 NKJ)

Your "vast" God, is not the God of Scripture.

 

[Randy]

God is infinite, not just vast:

Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built! (1 Ki. 8:27 NKJ)

The universe is not infinite, the time and space bubble we live in exists in the infinite Being of God. To be Precise, it exists in God the Word:

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col. 1:16-17 NKJ)

So Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, in which all things consist and have their being:

28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.'
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:28-30 NKJ)

Your "vast" God, is not the God of Scripture.

You wrote=>So Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, in which all things consist and have their being:

You state =>Jesus had a human spirit.

????

 

[Randy]

God is infinite, not just vast:

Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built! (1 Ki. 8:27 NKJ)

The universe is not infinite, the time and space bubble we live in exists in the infinite Being of God. To be Precise, it exists in God the Word:

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col. 1:16-17 NKJ)

So Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, in which all things consist and have their being:

28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.'
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:28-30 NKJ)

Your "vast" God, is not the God of Scripture.

I really and truly don't think Jesus shares your belief.

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me

 

[Alfred Persson]

You wrote=>So Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, in which all things consist and have their being:

You state =>Jesus had a human spirit.

????

Repeatedly I begged you to study the Christian doctrine of the two natures in Christ. Any Christian book store, online or in your neighborhood, will have reams of books on the subject.

I recommend Walvoord's book: "Jesus Christ our LORD."

Jesus is both God and man.

The spirit of Jesus didn't come down from heaven and possess his human body, as YOU believe.

The "Sphere of infinite radius" that is the Person of God the Son, became "centered" in the humanity of Jesus which was fully human, having body soul and spirit----Just like any human.

God's Spirit is omnipresent, yet nothing in this creation "touches His Spirit."

So when Jesus "came down from heaven", He didn't "possess" the body of Jesus by leaving heaven to come to the earth. God is Omnipresent, His Spirit is everywhere. Everything exists in God.

The sphere of infinite radius that is the Person of God the Son, became centered in the humanity of the Jesus which was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

God is Spirit UNLIKE anything in creation;

To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him? (Isa. 40:18 NKJ)

We cannot image God because He is INFINTE, doesn't have a "shape".

God doesn't move in time and space, spacetime exists in the infinite Mind of God like a thought.

He himself is before all things and all things are held together in him. (Col. 1:17 NET)

The reason why all things are held together in "the Word of God" is simple, as the Word Jesus makes concrete real whatever God "thinks". He verbalizes God's thought. gives it form and shape that can be apprehended by His creatures.

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (Gen. 3:8 KJV)

Hence if you see Jesus you see the Father.

For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 4:6 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

I misspoke when i said the universe is not infinite. I meant the observable universe is about 13.8 billion light years, what exists beyond that is unknown.

But it follows from everything existing in the infinite mind of God, the spatial universe is also infinite, but contained within God.

However, its conceivable God created a finite but expanding spacetime bubble, in which all things exist. In that case, the universe is finite.

As a believer in literal creation, I don't accept the assumption the universe is billions of years old. Rather, when God called it into existence, it "came to be" as big as it is now, within an instant of time.

Light didn't have to travels for billions of years to reach earth, all that came into existence at the moment of creation.

Then God took an additional 5 days to do various things within it. Then He rested on the 7th day. All that happened less than 10,000 years ago according to the Bible.

Age of the earth - creation.com

Earth is now generally accepted as 4.543 billion years old, but here are 101 evidences for a much younger age of the earth and the cosmos.

creation.com

 

[Alfred Persson]

I should have included the following when discussing:

"The sphere of infinite radius that is the Person of God the Son, became centered in the humanity of the Jesus which was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary."

The blessed Virgin Mary did not generate God.

By the power of the Holy Spirit the virgin conceived a truly human being, body soul and spirit. And the Person of God the Son chose to add that nature to His Person (John 1:14; Phil. 2:7) so He would simultaneously be in both the Nature of God the Son and in the Man Jesus Christ our LORD. Note the correct text proclaims this, stating matter factly Jesus was still in heaven even while speaking to the Jews while on earth:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13 KJV)


So Mary bore God in this manner: After the he Person of God the Son had added the humanity of Jesus that was conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit, and He was "hypostatically united" to this nature so He remained one Person, this event occurred in the womb of Mary.

Hence she can be called:

THEOTOKOS

“The bearer of God”; in Roman Catholic theology, the title accorded to Mary as the “Mother of God.” Though no less a theologian than Charles Hodge sanctioned the use of the title “Mother of God,” there is no scriptural foundation for it.

The divine second person of the Trinity was not conceived in Mary. Only the human nature which He took into personal union with Himself was formed in her womb and of her substance. She is the mother of Jesus as to His humanity; she is not the mother of God.

Yet theotokos may have a legitimate use in orthodox theology to emphasize that the one whom Mary bore was truly “God manifest in the flesh” (1 Tim. 3:16). He was the God-man, even when His human substance was yet being formed in Mary’s womb. The union of the divine and human natures in Christ took place at the point of conception, so that it was the entire theanthropic person* that Mary carried within her. In this sense, theotokos expresses a necessary scriptural idea. It is to be regretted that because of Rome’s support of its Maryolatry* with the illegitimate title “Mother of God,” and her association of that title with theotokos, Protestant theology has largely ignored the benefit of maintaining theotokos as a legitimate description of Mary—or rather, as a witness to the uniqueness of the one she bore.


Cairns, A. (2002). In Dictionary of Theological Terms (p. 488). Ambassador Emerald International.

 

[Randy]

I should have included the following when discussing:



The blessed Virgin Mary did not generate God.

By the power of the Holy Spirit the virgin conceived a truly human being, body soul and spirit. And the Person of God the Son chose to add that nature to His Person (John 1:14; Phil. 2:7) so He would simultaneously be in both the Nature of God the Son and in the Man Jesus Christ our LORD. Note the correct text proclaims this, stating matter factly Jesus was still in heaven even while speaking to the Jews while on earth:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13 KJV)


So Mary bore God in this manner: After the he Person of God the Son had added the humanity of Jesus that was conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit, and He was "hypostatically united" to this nature so He remained one Person, this event occurred in the womb of Mary.

Hence she can be called:

THEOTOKOS

“The bearer of God”; in Roman Catholic theology, the title accorded to Mary as the “Mother of God.” Though no less a theologian than Charles Hodge sanctioned the use of the title “Mother of God,” there is no scriptural foundation for it.

The divine second person of the Trinity was not conceived in Mary. Only the human nature which He took into personal union with Himself was formed in her womb and of her substance. She is the mother of Jesus as to His humanity; she is not the mother of God.

Yet theotokos may have a legitimate use in orthodox theology to emphasize that the one whom Mary bore was truly “God manifest in the flesh” (1 Tim. 3:16). He was the God-man, even when His human substance was yet being formed in Mary’s womb. The union of the divine and human natures in Christ took place at the point of conception, so that it was the entire theanthropic person* that Mary carried within her. In this sense, theotokos expresses a necessary scriptural idea. It is to be regretted that because of Rome’s support of its Maryolatry* with the illegitimate title “Mother of God,” and her association of that title with theotokos, Protestant theology has largely ignored the benefit of maintaining theotokos as a legitimate description of Mary—or rather, as a witness to the uniqueness of the one she bore.


Cairns, A. (2002). In Dictionary of Theological Terms (p. 488). Ambassador Emerald International.

Are you sure the greek supports "God" in the flesh? If Paul wrote that I would consider that a anomaly to be carefully examined.

For example some translations differ
Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:

He was revealed in flesh,
vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.

 

[Randy]

closest english translation of Col 1:19 from the greek

Because in Him did please all the fullness to dwell.

From the will of another at a point in history before the world began is what I see.

IN HIM - THE FULLNESS WAS PLEASED - TO DWELL

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

THAT THEY MAT BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

That's the oneness I find declared by the Head of the body of Christ in the NT.

Copyright owned by Christ Jesus

 

[Goldwing]

He has always been the Son. He has His own mind, will and spirit. Though the Deity in Him is the Fathers it was gifted to Jesus as part of His being to dwell forever with His spirit . That Deity will act according to Jesus's will. Jesus has that authority. As by Jesus God created. As by Jesus we live. As by Jesus we will be raised on the last day. As by Jesus He raised Himself from the dead. They are one.
God will do everything He is pleased to do. But as a Son Jesus abides within the framework of His Fathers will. Jesus always does what pleases the Father and remains in the Fathers love. Though we were to sin the Father will never take His love away from Jesu

Following are quotes taken from you post above, in brackets are what I understand you to mean, and my thoughts regarding them.

“He [Jesus] has always been the Son” [For me, this conveys that each member of the Trinity were not equal in the beginning. I disagree.]

“He [Jesus] has His own mind, will and spirit.” [I take this to mean, that Jesus and the Father could have different ideas on various issues, not to mention the Holy Spirit. I disagree. I don’t understand what you mean by “spirit” in this context.]

“Though the Deity in Him is the Fathers, it was gifted to Jesus as part of His being to dwell forever with His spirit.” [I understand this to mean, that Jesus was not a deity in the beginning. I disagree. Too, I don’t understand what you mean when you say it (The Father’s Deity) will dwell forever with His spirit.]

“That Deity [the Father’s] will act according to Jesus's will.” [This understanding reveres why Jesus was given the title of “Son”. For the title “Son” implies that Jesus would be submissive to the Father will, not the other way around.

“As by Jesus God created.” [Not sure if the title “God” here, means the Father or Jesus, however, Jesus was the creative agent.]

“As by Jesus He raised Himself from the dead.” [To believe this, is to lesson the value of what Christ offered on the cross. To appreciate this, one must understand the Godhead. In the beginning there has always existed three equal deities. Equal in glory, power, purpose and plan. It was decided between them before any creation came to be, that for them to best serve their expanding universe that they should divide up their responsibilities. They decided that only one should keep their “ All Knowing Abilities”, and forever retain their “full glory,” being unapproachable to all of creation, and rule creation from a heavenly throne. This is the roll of the Father.

They decided also, that only one should retain “the power to create”, and that deity would veil their glory in the form of their created, so that they could best serve their creation and reveal the love the Godhead has for them. One of His titles would be the “Word”, as He would speak for the Godhead. This is the roll of Jesus.

And last it was decided that only one should retain the ability to be “in all places at the same time, and to know the thoughts of all created beings continually and simultaneously, acting as a conduit by which information flows to the Father and Jesus, then repeats the response of the Father or Jesus back to the created. Too, this deity would forever remain, invisible to their creation. This is the roll of the Holy Spirit.

When individuals understand this demonstration of Love, in that each deity was willing to give up to thirds of their powers to form one united Godhead, by joining the one third powers that each retained, for the benefit of their creation, is truly amazing. This is why God (plural) can declare, “God is love.”

The plan of salvation is the Fathers plan, since He only foreknew that it would be needed after the fall of Adam and Eve. When Adam and Eve sinned they were to be executed the day they ate of the fruit of the tree, of “Knowledge of Good an Evil”.

Because of Jesus’s love for them He went to the Father and ask for a way to spar them from death. The Father explained the plan of salvation and what it would personally require of Jesus to save all of mankind. Jesus agreed to the Fathers plan out of love for His creation. Thus, their execution (wages of sin) was avoided, and Jesus on that day and ever since has been interceding for fallen mankind. Too, on that day, Jesus became the Son of the Father. Meaning, He would be completely submissive to the Fathers plans to save mankind.

It was Jesus who communicated with the patriarchs and prophets of the Old Testament, very few times is the Father mentioned. Jesus lead the Israelites out of captivity, wrote out the ten commandments with His own finger. Then when the appointed time came set by the Father, Jesus was willing to humbled Himself by veiling His deity in human form and was born of the Virgin Mary.

He was born of a humble family and processed no beauty, that should provide Him any social advantages. He was required by the Father to live a sinless life which He did by close communion with His Father and the indwelling Holy Spirit. At the age of thirty He began to reveal His divinity and prepared to establish His earthly Kingdom, of which John the Baptist preached, “Behold the Kingdom of God is at hand”. It was the seventieth week of Dan. 9., of which the Messiah would be cut off in the middle of that week (of years). And as predicted Jesus was crucified in the middle of that week of years on a Wednesday year, at the age of thirty three.

It was the Fathers Plan that Jesus be executed on the alter in the Temple Mount, just as various animal sacrifices were sacrificed/executed, for centuries in the earthly sanctuary. This service was to prepare the nation of Israel for what they would be required to do when the “Lamb of God”, arrived at the appointed time.

However, the Jewish nation could not except the progressive truth that Christ was actually the very God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They believed in only one God, therefore, they did not except Christ as deity, having been born a illegitimate child, claiming to be the “Son of God”.

Therefore, Christ was rejected, and sentenced to death on a cross outside or the Holy city, as a common criminal. Christ in His human form retained His divinity, and did on occasions use it for the benefit of others, never for personal gain or advantage. But in so doing was revealing the Love of the Godhead.

While on the cross the Father drew back from Jesus, and Jesus said, Father, Father why have tho forsaken Me.The Father was silent, and Jesus response was, Father into they hands I commit my Spirit [Life] Jesus, in faith, believed that the Father would raise Him to life, based on His sinless life and willingness to lay down down His life in payment for the wages of sin (Rm. 6:23, the second death of which there is no resurrection) He endured the suffering and death, even though He could have called in legions of angles to rescue Him. Love and submissiveness to the Father and mankind held Him to the cross. But be clear, He did not raise Himself up, but placed His external destiny into His Fathers hands.

Had He used His own divinity to raise Himself, that would have lessened the price of God’s sacrifice?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Are you sure the greek supports "God" in the flesh? If Paul wrote that I would consider that a anomaly to be carefully examined.

For example some translations differ
Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:

He was revealed in flesh,
vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.

Yes, I am sure:

[11] Instead of ‘God’, 1% of the Greek manuscripts (of objectively inferior quality) read ‘who’, and most modern versions follow this 1%. But ‘who’ is nonsensical (in the context), so most of them take evasive action: NEB and NASB have ;he who’; Phillips has ‘the one’; NRSV, Jerusalem, TEV and NIV render ‘he’. Berkley actually has ‘who’! In the Greek Text the relative pronoun has no antecedent, so it is a grammatical ‘impossibility’, besides being a stupidity— what is so mysterious about someone being manifested in flesh? All human beings have bodies. In the absence of concrete evidence, the claim that this is a note lifted from a known hymn or poem becomes no more than a desperate attempt to ‘save’ a choice that besides being stupid is also perverse (because of the theological consequences). The pronoun can be accounted for as an easy transcriptional error, a simple copying mistake, so why not stay with the 98.5% (there are other variants)? “God was manifested in flesh”— now there you have a mystery! For a more detailed discussion, please see my book, The Identity of the New Testament Text IV, footnote 3, on pages 115-117.-Pickering ThM. PhD., Dr. Wilbur. THE SOVEREIGN CREATOR HAS SPOKEN -- New Testament Translation with Commentary Second Edition (Kindle Locations 22642-22650). Unknown. Kindle Edition.


Context is the strongest proof the modern readings are obviously wrong. No antecedent for the pronoun makes their readings "impossible." That is often the case with modern eclectic texts, they ambiguate rather than clarify the text. which only highlights their inferiority.


See Also

Another King James Bible Believer

The King James Bible.

brandplucked.webs.com

I am not a KJV onlyist as I quote from Modern Bibles when I believe they reveal an aspect of the Greek clearly.

But that does not imply I agree with the unsound theories used to reconstruct the NT Greek used in Modern Translations since Wescott and Hort.

Dean Burgon devastated Wescott and Hort's arguments and facts have made the case for the "Received Text" and the entire Byzantine family of texts stronger over time, not weaker.

Chick.com: Who Was Dean Burgon?

He was a defender of the Textus Receptus and the King James Bible.

www.chick.com

Pickering's The Identity of the New Testament Text is also a good read on this subject.

I trust God rather than men, divine providence preserved His Word from error.

The foolishness of trusting scholarship to deliver correct readings is evident when one inspects the arguments raised for a particular reading. Thoroughly speculative and subjective, no science behind it at all.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Although I use the NKJ often, it sometimes fails compared to the KJV. Rather than follow the historic rendering of the present passive participle of 4982 σῴζω sozo σῳζομένοις "which are saved" (Tyndale 1525; Coverdale 1535; Great Bible 1539-1540; Geneva Bible 1557; KJV 1611) and be consistent with Christ's teaching no man can annul the eternal life He gives the saved (John 10:27-29), it renders the verb as "are being saved" as though its not yet achieved.

While that rendering is possible, they could have chosen to retain the KJV rendering and remained consistent with the teaching of Christ. In the following list of present passive participles its clear the KJV rendering is not only possible, it’s the correct rendering:


KJV 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved (σῳζομένοις) it is the power of God.

NKJ 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved (σῳζομένοις) it is the power of God.


Verb Examples of present passive participles:

Departing wasn't an ongoing process:
BYZ Acts 28:10 οἳ καὶ πολλαῖς τιμαῖς ἐτίμησαν ἡμᾶς, καὶ ἀναγομένοις ἐπέθεντο τὰ πρὸς τὴν χρείαν.
KJV Acts 28:10 Who also honoured us with many honours; and when we departed (ἀναγομένοις), they laded us with such things as were necessary.


Target Text
BYZ 1 Cor. 1:18 Ὁ λόγος γὰρ ὁ τοῦ σταυροῦ τοῖς μὲν ἀπολλυμένοις μωρία ἐστίν, τοῖς δὲ σῳζομένοις ἡμῖν δύναμις θεοῦ ἐστιν.
KJV 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved (σῳζομένοις) it is the power of God.

The antithesis looks at two categories that are fixed, those who are saved and those who have perished
BYZ 2 Cor. 2:15 Ὅτι χριστοῦ εὐωδία ἐσμὲν τῷ θεῷ ἐν τοῖς σῳζομένοις καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις·
KJV 2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved (σῳζομένοις), and in them that perish:

Being troubled had a beginning, and would end:
BYZ 2 Thess. 1:7 καὶ ὑμῖν τοῖς θλιβομένοις ἄνεσιν μεθ᾽ ἡμῶν, ἐν τῇ ἀποκαλύψει τοῦ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ ἀπ᾽ οὐρανοῦ μετ᾽ ἀγγέλων δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ,
KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled (θλιβομένοις) rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels

Although affliction was ongoing, her relieving them was accomplished history
BYZ 1 Tim. 5:10 ἐν ἔργοις καλοῖς μαρτυρουμένη, εἰ ἐτεκνοτρόφησεν, εἰ ἐξενοδόχησεν, εἰ ἁγίων πόδας ἔνιψεν, εἰ θλιβομένοις ἐπήρκεσεν, εἰ παντὶ ἔργῳ ἀγαθῷ ἐπηκολούθησεν.
KJV 1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted (θλιβομένοις), if she have diligently followed every good work.

Are Being Tempted:
BYZ Heb. 2:18 Ἐν ᾧ γὰρ πέπονθεν αὐτὸς πειρασθείς, δύναται τοῖς πειραζομένοις βοηθῆσαι.
KJV Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted (πειραζομένοις).

"Are out of the way", The perspective is looking upon " a finished category
BYZ Heb. 5:2 μετριοπαθεῖν δυνάμενος τοῖς ἀγνοοῦσιν καὶ πλανωμένοις, ἐπεὶ καὶ αὐτὸς περίκειται ἀσθένειαν·
KJV Hebrews 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way (πλανωμένοις); for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.


Are sent, not being sent.
BYZ 1 Pet. 2:14 εἴτε ἡγεμόσιν, ὡς δι᾽ αὐτοῦ πεμπομένοις εἰς ἐκδίκησιν κακοποιῶν, ἔπαινον δὲ ἀγαθοποιῶν.
KJV 1 Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent (πεμπομένοις) by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

[BYZ The New Testament in the Original Greek, Byzantine Text Form, 2005, Compiled and arranged by Maurice A. Robinson and William G. Pierpont. ]

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