Eternal Security of the Believer

[Cooper]

I'm not disputing your interpretation Peter's sorror indicates his denial was not a denial of Christ's claims, only that he knew Christ.

I concede that point. You are right, I am wrong BUT there are texts which teach Eternal Security, once you are saved you are always saved:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (Jn. 10:26-29 KJV)

However, I do not ignore those Bible verses that say followers can lose their salvation.

12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) Him, He also will deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) us.
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) Himself. (2 Tim. 2:12-13 NKJ)

As scripture is 100% true BOTH statements are correct and its OUR understanding of their context that is inaccurate, that makes them seem contrary.

This is like two blind men describing what an elephant feels like. One is holding the tail, the other the elephant's trunk. When they describe the elephant, they cannot see the elephant's body connecting the two. So they get mad at each other and each says the other is "lying" or "just plain wrong."

In both Christ's words and Paul's the "elephant's body" that makes Eternal Security AND the possibility a former professor of Christ can lose his salvation, is in who the confessor is.

Only Christ's sheep heard His voice and follow Christ fully, those who are not Christ's sheep (the TARES sown among the WHEAT), only seemed to be Christian for a time and then they deny His claims.

In other words, Salvation is open to whosoever believe, both elect and non-elect. Those who truly confess Christ cannot perish, no one can pluck them from God's hand. But as for those not Christ's sheep, they can profess Christ for a time but they never really believed and end up denying His claims, so He denies them.

Notice how Paul seems to allude to Peter's denial as being different than the denial that happens in verse 12:

12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) Him, He also will deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) us.
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny (720 ἀρνέομαι arneomai) Himself. (2 Tim. 2:12-13 NKJ)

Although its the same Greek word the "denials" are different, in verse 12 "deny" is future tense (ἀρνήσεται) which points to a future denial by Christ. In verse 13 it is like Peter's faithless denial and Jesus cannot "deny himself."

So I concede Peter is not proof of eternal security, or not slam dunk proof.

The point you made about his sorrow and repentance right away confirms his denial of knowing Christ was not a denial Jesus is the Christ.

BUT fact remains, Jesus taught Eternal Security and YOU have a problem I don't have. You aren't believing Christ's teaching on this.

The only way you can reconcile BOTH texts is how I did it, deduce there is an elephant's body connecting the tail and trunk so both blind men are being truthful when they describe what the elephant feels like to them.


Christ made Peter reverse his denials:

15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Feed My lambs."
16 He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Tend My sheep."
17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep. (Jn. 21:15-17 NKJ)

Well said, and indeed it is not a case of one of us being right or wrong, but rather a case of seeing the whole picture, or the whole elephant as you so ably illustrated it. So in order to see the entire elephant we need to include tail, trunk, and body and include these scriptures, and there are more, into the complete picture.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21.

May God bless.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Salvation is for 'whosoever believes.' This was God's plan and purpose from the beginning. ALL are elected, but few there are who accept.

"Few will be saved?" That is out of context. In context its "few of Christ's generation of Jews" that would be saved, in contrast to the many Gentiles who come from the four corners of the earth:

23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying,`Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you,`I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say,`We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say,`I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
29 "They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 "And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."
(Lk. 13:23-30 NKJ)

 

[Cooper]

"Few will be saved?" That is out of context. In context its "few of Christ's generation of Jews" that would be saved, in contrast to the many Gentiles who come from the four corners of the earth:

23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying,`Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you,`I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say,`We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say,`I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
29 "They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 "And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."
(Lk. 13:23-30 NKJ)

Jesus the eternal God and Saviour died for the 'whosoever.' I cannot accept what you say. And there you are talking about the eternal salvation of the redeemed.

 

[JLB]

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,

Those who follow Him; hearing and obeying His Voice, IOW those led by His Spirit shall never be plucked out of His hand.

Amen! We can rest assured in His promise!

GOD IS GOOD!


Now let’s discuss those who wander away from Him, choosing to depart from Him, desert Him, and turn away from Him to pursue their own way.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These in this group deserted Christ, departed from Him in a time of persecution and therefore they no longer believed.


Are these people who turned away from Christ in a time of persecution still saved?







JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

Those who follow Him; hearing and obeying His Voice, IOW those led by His Spirit shall never be plucked out of His hand.

Amen! We can rest assured in His promise!

GOD IS GOOD!


Now let’s discuss those who wander away from Him, choosing to depart from Him, desert Him, and turn away from Him to pursue their own way.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These in this group deserted Christ, departed from Him in a time of persecution and therefore they no longer believed.


Are these people who turned away from Christ in a time of persecution still saved?







JLB

Think.
1)Eternal life that can be taken away is Temporary life, Christ doesn't give that.
2) The believer isn't able to "jump out of Christ's hand" because he is one of those Jesus calls "anyone....no one" You cannot snatch yourself out of the Father's hand:

26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. (Jn. 10:26-29 NKJ)

You confuse scriptures which apply to the TARES, who seem to be Christian for a time and then fall away:

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! (Matt. 13:36-43 NKJ)

Until you factor in Tares sit alongside Wheat in the Church, and realize texts which imply its possible to lose one's salvation are spoken to them, you will have unresolved contradiction.

The Bible cannot contradict itself, it is 100% true. Therefore, if what you believe results in the APPEARANCE of Bible contradiction, it is your belief that is wrong.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus the eternal God and Saviour died for the 'whosoever.' I cannot accept what you say. And there you are talking about the eternal salvation of the redeemed.

I don't understand your objection, restate it please.

Many Christians (I once was among them) believe Christ taught "few would be saved". BUT if you read it in context, Christ was talking about the generation of Jews who rejected Him. They ate and drank in His presence, but few of them believed in Him. In contrast, from the four corners of the earth will come MANY who will be saved. That includes Jew and Gentiles:

23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying,`Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you,`I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say,`We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say,`I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
29 "They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. (Lk. 13:23-29 NKJ)

 

[JLB]

Eternal life that can be taken away is Temporary life,

Your perspective seems to overlook that we are spirit, soul and body.

That our body will eventually die. So in that regard even though we have eternal life dwelling in our inner man, we will someday die.


Fortunately we have the definition for eternal life from Jesus Christ Himself.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


The way we have eternal life now, living on earth is being “in Christ”, is “knowing Him”; being joined to Him as one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


IOW’s the only way to have eternal life is being in Christ, where eternal life is found.


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2


Therefore we can confidently say…

• Those who are “in Christ” have eternal life.
• Those who are separated from Christ, do not have eternal life.

JLB

 

[Cooper]

I don't understand your objection, restate it please.

Many Christians (I once was among them) believe Christ taught "few would be saved". BUT if you read it in context, Christ was talking about the generation of Jews who rejected Him. They ate and drank in His presence, but few of them believed in Him. In contrast, from the four corners of the earth will come MANY who will be saved. That includes Jew and Gentiles:

23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying,`Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you,`I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say,`We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say,`I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
29 "They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. (Lk. 13:23-29 NKJ)

I don't disagree with what you are saying there, but I am talking about a person who once truly believed and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, a genuine believer, but then they have a change of heart and reject Him, never to return to the fold of the Good Shepherd.

Consider the scriptures I posted earlier. I will post them again for you.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)


For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I don't disagree with what you are saying there, but I am talking about a person who once truly believed and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, a genuine believer, but then they have a change of heart and reject Him, never to return to the fold of the Good Shepherd.

Consider the scriptures I posted earlier. I will post them again for you.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)


For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21.

All those texts refer to TARES not born again believers.

In Hebrews 10:4 They "tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers (3353 μέτοχος metochos) of the Holy Spirit".

3353. μέτοχος métochos; gen. metóchou, masc.–fem., neut. métochon, adj. from metéchō (3348), to partake. Partaking, participating. As a noun, a partaker (Heb. 3:1, 14; 6:4; 12:8), partner, companion, fellow worker (Luke 5:7; Heb. 1:9 quoted from Sept.: Ps. 45:7).

Deriv.: summétochos (4830), a coparticipant.

Syn.: koinōnós (2844), one having communion, being a partner; sunékdēmos (4898), a fellow traveler; sunergós (4904), a fellow worker.-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

This "partaking" is like "sharing" with a "companion or fellow worker". Not so in a born again believer, the "sharing" comes results from a union, joint participation:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers (2844 κοινωνός koinonos) of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Pet. 1:4 KJV)'

2844. κοινωνός koinōnós; gen. koinōnoú, masc.–fem., neut. koinōnón, adj. from koinós (2839), common. A partaker, partner, companion, used in an absolute sense in 2 Cor. 8:23; Phile. 1:17. Followed by the gen. of person of whom one is the companion, with whom he partakes in something (Matt. 23:30; 1 Cor. 10:20; Heb. 10:33; Sept.: Is. 1:23); by the dat. of person to or with whom one is partner (Luke 5:10); by the gen. of thing (1 Cor. 10:18, “partakers of the altar” may mean of the victims sacrificed; 2 Cor. 1:7; 1 Pet. 5:1; 2 Pet. 1:4).

Deriv.: koinōnéō (2841), to share in; koinōnikós (2843), communicative, generous; sugkoinōnós (4791), joint participator, companion.

Syn.: sunékdēmos (4898), a fellow traveler; métochos (3353), partner.-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

As for the next, put yourself in Paul's place. You are preaching to a church where there are TARES (who are trying to repent and believe) and WHEAT (born again believers).

You would not tell them all they are eternally secure because that would be a lie. The non-elect must come to a saving faith to be saved "to the uttermost" (Heb. 7:25). You would include yourself in any exhortation to them, saying "if WE sin willfully". This way everyone is benefited by striving to keep from sin.

But it does not mean those Christ has given eternal life to, and promised would not perish, perish.

Moreover, you assume a true born again believer will fall away into sin. I don't believe they do. I believe people reveal they were TARES when they apostatize from the faith.

So also with the last text you cite, but there Peter makes clear he is speaking about "them", not born again Christians.

The NT reflects what Christ said would happen, TARES and WHEAT would grow together. They can be saved if they endure to the end, remain faithful. Then they prove they truly believed in Christ, and did not hold back when they confessed His Name. Therefore, both Christ and His apostles preach to them, hoping to save all.

But it does not follow preaching they must endure to the end, implies born again believers might not endure to the end. I believe they do.

Logically, if two statements must be true, yet seem to contradict, some context must exist wherein BOTH statements do not contradict. Sometimes you have to be like Sherlock Holmes, and by logical inference see what the statements imply and merge them, to get the "missing or implied" context.

To illustrate this, BOTH these statements are 100% correct although they seem to contradict each other:

At 9 AM today John entered the state of New York”
At 9 AM today John left the state of New Jersey”.

The missing context? These are border states, John left the border state of New Jersey precisely as he entered New York.


Scripture is 100% truth, truth never contradicts itself.

There are texts in the NT that suggest believers can lose their salvation, others that say believers cannot.

Both statements are true.

Like Sherlock Holmes, you have to induce the missing context wherein both statements are correct. The fact there are TARES sown among the WHEAT is that missing context.

Compare:

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. (Heb. 6:7-9 NKJ)

 

[Cooper]

All those texts refer to TARES not born again believers.

In Hebrews 10:4 They "tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers (3353 μέτοχος metochos) of the Holy Spirit".



This "partaking" is like "sharing" with a "companion or fellow worker". Not so in a born again believer, the "sharing" comes results from a union, joint participation:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers (2844 κοινωνός koinonos) of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Pet. 1:4 KJV)'



As for the next, put yourself in Paul's place. You are preaching to a church where there are TARES (who are trying to repent and believe) and WHEAT (born again believers).

You would not tell them all they are eternally secure because that would be a lie. The non-elect must come to a saving faith to be saved "to the uttermost" (Heb. 7:25). You would include yourself in any exhortation to them, saying "if WE sin willfully". This way everyone is benefited by striving to keep from sin.

But it does not mean those Christ has given eternal life to, and promised would not perish, perish.

Moreover, you assume a true born again believer will fall away into sin. I don't believe they do. I believe people reveal they were TARES when they apostatize from the faith.

So also with the last text you cite, but there Peter makes clear he is speaking about "them", not born again Christians.

The NT reflects what Christ said would happen, TARES and WHEAT would grow together. They can be saved if they endure to the end, remain faithful. Then they prove they truly believed in Christ, and did not hold back when they confessed His Name. Therefore, both Christ and His apostles preach to them, hoping to save all.

But it does not follow preaching they must endure to the end, implies born again believers might not endure to the end. I believe they do.

Logically, if two statements must be true, yet seem to contradict, some context must exist wherein BOTH statements do not contradict. Sometimes you have to be like Sherlock Holmes, and by logical inference see what the statements imply and merge them, to get the "missing or implied" context.

To illustrate this, BOTH these statements are 100% correct although they seem to contradict each other:


The missing context? These are border states, John left the border state of New Jersey precisely as he entered New York.


Scripture is 100% truth, truth never contradicts itself.

There are texts in the NT that suggest believers can lose their salvation, others that say believers cannot.

Both statements are true.

Like Sherlock Holmes, you have to induce the missing context wherein both statements are correct. The fact there are TARES sown among the WHEAT is that missing context.

Compare:

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. (Heb. 6:7-9 NKJ)

I am sorry, these are born-again Christians who have known and experienced the goodness of God.

There is little point continuing this discussion.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I am sorry, these are born-again Christians who have known and experienced the goodness of God.

There is little point continuing this discussion.

Apologists have long cited the fact they only "tasted", they didn't "ingest". That corroborates my exegesis.

If you stop arguing your point, its because you have nothing to counter the exegesis.

Its not, as you imply, because I am stubborn. I am always willing to concede any truth that is in scripture, that I failed to notice..


I never walk away from a debate a loser, its not my style.

No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," Says the LORD. (Isa. 54:17 NKJ)

 

[Cooper]

Apologists have long cited the fact they only "tasted", they didn't "ingest". That corroborates my exegesis.

If you stop arguing your point, its because you have nothing to counter the exegesis.

Its not, as you imply, because I am stubborn. I am always willing to concede any truth that is in scripture, that I failed to notice..


I never walk away from a debate a loser, its not my style.

No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," Says the LORD. (Isa. 54:17 NKJ)

Most forums have banned this subject. It is never resolved one way or another, it only leads to bad feeling and the joy of the Lord, fades away when an excellent forum becomes a battle ground. We really should be basking in the sunshine of the Lord's love, and those who do that can be assured of their eternal security. May the love of God be with us all. Amen.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Most forums have banned this subject. It is never resolved one way or another, it only leads to bad feeling and the joy of the Lord, fades away when an excellent forum becomes a battle ground. We really should be basking in the sunshine of the Lord's love, and those who do that can be assured of their eternal security. May the love of God be with us all. Amen.

If you delete all controversial subjects from the NT it would only be a few pages big. Hopefully your suggestion is rejected with extreme prejudice. A "woke" and "safe space" isn't a Christian forum, its something else I want no part of.

 

[Cooper]

If you delete all controversial subjects from the NT it would only be a few pages big. Hopefully your suggestion is rejected with extreme prejudice. A "woke" and "safe space" isn't a Christian forum, its something else I want no part of.

I usually point to Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and were thrust out from his presence.
After participating in many discussions on this subject, I think it is best to draw a line under it and wait until the day of judgement. We are not God to determine our ending. Far better to follow him all the days of our life, repenting of our sins as we walk the narrow way with Him. God bless.

 

[Randy]

Well God is certainly capable of keeping us for Himself.
And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal

Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from falling, and to make you stand without blemish in the presence of his glory with rejoicing

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1John 5:13 -to those born of God still in the flesh
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

John 10
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

John 6
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus - I give them eternal life and they will NEVER perish -NO one will snatch them out of my hands

Jesus in regard to Peter (The Lord keeping Peter safe)
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

The Fathers Will -Jesus lose none of those He has given His Son and raise them up on the last day.
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

 

[Cooper]

Well God is certainly capable of keeping us for Himself.
And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal

Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from falling, and to make you stand without blemish in the presence of his glory with rejoicing

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1John 5:13 -to those born of God still in the flesh
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

John 10
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

John 6
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus - I give them eternal life and they will NEVER perish -NO one will snatch them out of my hands

Jesus in regard to Peter (The Lord keeping Peter safe)
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

The Fathers Will -Jesus lose none of those He has given His Son and raise them up on the last day.
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Why would Jesus want someone who denies his deity, in heaven, with him for eternity? And what is Jesus doing in heaven if he is not God?
.

 

[Randy]

Why would Jesus want someone who denies his deity, in heaven, with him for eternity? And what is Jesus doing in heaven if he is not God?
.

That doesn't belong in this thread. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. "I'm In"
And the Deity in Christ is the Fathers.

 

[MouseWhistle]

No one comes to Jesus unless God leads them. We are not saved of ourselves but by God's grace through faith.

I believe in what Jesus died to seal with the sacrifice of his body, the bread of life. We are in eternal life and Salvation. Not conditional respite from the state of sinner.

Eternal Salvation is what Jesus died to deliver.
I pray none who are in Christ ever let themselves doubt that.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No one comes to Jesus unless God leads them. We are not saved of ourselves but by God's grace through faith.

I believe in what Jesus died to seal with the sacrifice of his body, the bread of life. We are in eternal life and Salvation. Not conditional respite from the state of sinner.

Eternal Salvation is what Jesus died to deliver.
I pray none who are in Christ ever let themselves doubt that.

I like the way you put that, "Jesus died to deliver eternal life," not temporary life. It is obvious, yet I never thought of putting it as well as you did. Thanks.

 

[Cooper]

That doesn't belong in this thread. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. "I'm In"
And the Deity in Christ is the Fathers.

What did Jesus say he was going to do? He was going to prepare a place for us. That is something no mere man can do. If you strip the flesh away from his earthly body you are left with the Father. Be careful not to commit blasphemy or deny Jesus like Judas did. Think back about everything you have said. Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit. He is the boss. It is Jesus we shall all have to answer to. He is the I AM in human flesh, He is "God with us."