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The purpose of God according to election.

electedbyhim said:
I gave a Biblical answer.

Do you not understand those verses on Paul's conversion?
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Thanks for admitting that Saul of Tarsus was converted during his encounter with Jesus. Not before.
 
electedbyhim said:
So you were elected by God.

He chose you for salvation, not by anything you ever did and He gave you the faith to believe.

I believe Paul was regenrated when he said....

Acts 9:5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,

Only by the indwellling of Holy Spirit could Paul have called Jesus Christ, Lord.
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Saul wouldn't receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until Acts 9:17..."And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
It is apparent that he wasn't regenerated yet.
 
JLB said:
Turning away from Christ while under persecution, and returning to Judaism in which you renounce Christ as a false teacher and false messiah, is definitely sin.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21
Luke says it this way -
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
Once a person does this they can no longer be brought back to repentance.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
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If they sinned, they hadn't repented of sin in the first place.
 
JLB said:
Thanks for admitting that Saul of Tarsus was converted during his encounter with Jesus. Not before.
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However Saul of Tarsus was saved in the Eternal phase of Salvation before the world began according to Grace had been given Him in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And he was saved in the Legal Phase of Salvation by the Death of Christ while he was still a raving enemy Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation to God is legally saved, and how was that accomplished according to Rom 5:10 ?
 
brightfame52 said:
However Saul of Tarsus was saved in the Eternal phase of Salvation before the world began according to Grace had been given Him in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And he was saved in the Legal Phase of Salvation by the Death of Christ while he was still a raving enemy Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation to God is legally saved, and how was that accomplished according to Rom 5:10 ?
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Saul was not born again, until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus in which he obeyed what Jesus told him to do.

Saul was a sinner, then he became saved; born again, regenerated.

In order to be reconciled to God we must repent; turn to God.

This is what is called obeying the Gospel.

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Do you believe the pharisee's and unbelieving Jews were already saved before Peter preached the Gospel to them on the day of Pentecost?




JLB
 
JLB said:
Show me the scripture where Jesus or His Apostles Preached the Gospel saying "repent of your sins".
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Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
 
electedbyhim said:
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
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Thanks for making my point.

As we see it doesn’t say repent of your sins.

Do you understand what repent means?
 
JLB said:
Saul was not born again, until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus in which he obeyed what Jesus told him to do.

Saul was a sinner, then he became saved; born again, regenerated.

In order to be reconciled to God we must repent; turn to God.

This is what is called obeying the Gospel.

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Do you believe the pharisee's and unbelieving Jews were already saved before Peter preached the Gospel to them on the day of Pentecost?




JLB
Click to expand...
Saul of Tarsus was saved in the Eternal phase of Salvation before the world began according to Grace had been given Him in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And he was saved in the Legal Phase of Salvation by the Death of Christ while he was still a raving enemy Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation to God is legally saved, and how was that accomplished according to Rom 5:10 ?
 
JLB

In order to be reconciled to God we must repent; turn to God.
Click to expand...

False Teaching, Believers were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, even when they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
JLB said:
Thanks for making my point.

As we see it doesn’t say repent of your sins.

Do you understand what repent means?
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"To change one's mind."

Luk 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
Luk 24:46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
Luk 24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (ESV)

Act 8:22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. (ESV)

2Co 12:21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced. (ESV)

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, (ESV)

Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,
Rev 9:21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. (ESV)

It seems pretty clear to me that repentance at least includes repenting of one's sins, if one wants to argue that that isn't its only meaning.
 
JLB said:
Show me the scripture where Jesus or His Apostles Preached the Gospel saying "repent of your sins".
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Here are a few...
  1. Matthew 9:13
    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

  2. Mark 1:4
    John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

  3. Mark 2:17
    When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

  4. Luke 3:3
    And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

  5. Luke 5:32
    I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

  6. Luke 15:7
    I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

  7. Luke 15:10
    Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

  8. Luke 24:47
    And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

  9. Acts 2:38
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

  10. Acts 3:19
    Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

  11. Acts 5:31
    Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

  12. 2 Corinthians 12:21
    And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

I am almost of the mind to wonder if anyone has ever told you that sinners are not going to heaven . ???
 
brightfame52 said:
Saul of Tarsus was saved in the Eternal phase of Salvation before the world began according to Grace had been given Him in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And he was saved in the Legal Phase of Salvation by the Death of Christ while he was still a raving enemy Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation to God is legally saved, and how was that accomplished according to Rom 5:10 ?
Click to expand...

So you believe Saul of Tarsus was already saved before he met Christ, and while he was persecuting and murdering Christian's?
 
Free said:
"To change one's mind."
Click to expand...

It means "turn to God" (in submission to Him as Lord).

If we are called to repent, turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Words of Christ in red -

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20



JLB
 
Free said:
It seems pretty clear to me that repentance at least includes repenting of one's sins, if one wants to argue that that isn't its only meaning.
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Of course for those who are believers, Christian's, repent of sins is a way of life.

I am referring to an unbeliever, a sinner, someone who is not saved, becoming saved; becoming born again.
 
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