Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The purpose of God according to election.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Repent. Not repent of sins.

It means "turn to God" (in submission to Him as Lord).

If we are called to repent, turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Words of Christ in red -

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Repent is about changing who is your lord, and about which kingdom you are in.



JLB
 
Of course for those who are believers, Christian's, repent of sins is a way of life.

I am referring to an unbeliever, a sinner, someone who is not saved, becoming saved; becoming born again.
Repentance from sin is the start of life.
Those who refuse to repent of sin. are dead in sin.
 
I am almost of the mind to wonder if anyone has ever told you that sinners are not going to heaven . ???


Sinners are not going to heaven, they are unrighteous.


I almost wonder if anyone has ever told you a born again Christian can sin and be forgiven, by confessing his sin?


8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8 - 2:2
 
Repent. Not repent of sins.

It means "turn to God" (in submission to Him as Lord).

If we are called to repent, turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Words of Christ in red -

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Repent is about changing who is your lord, and about which kingdom you are in.
Great, another doctrine that accommodates sin.
By refusing to acknowledge that man must turn from sin, you condemn all to a second death.
Servants of God cannot serve sin too.
 
It means "turn to God" (in submission to Him as Lord).

If we are called to repent, turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Words of Christ in red -

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20
You're using a verse which is speaking of both repenting and turning to God to try and support your definition.

Thayer's:

μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins


Strong's:

μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.


New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance:

μετανοέω
metanoeō; from G3326 and G3539; to change one's mind or purpose: — repent (26), repented (5), repents (3).


Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary:

μετανοέω
metanoeō
34x: to undergo a change in frame of mind and feeling, to repent, Luk 17:3-4; to make a change of principle and practice, to reform, Mat 3:2.

Perhaps we should stick with those who know what repent means.

Of course for those who are believers, Christian's, repent of sins is a way of life.

I am referring to an unbeliever, a sinner, someone who is not saved, becoming saved; becoming born again.
It's the same for both, as the verses I gave show.
 
Repentance from sin is the start of life.
Those who refuse to repent of sin. are dead in sin.

Repenting, turning to God, by confessing Jesus as Lord is how we start our spiritual life.

Then as a born again Christian, we are now ready for water baptism; a baptism of repentance of sin.



JLB
 
Great, another doctrine that accommodates sin.
By refusing to acknowledge that man must turn from sin, you condemn all to a second death.
Servants of God cannot serve sin too.

You refuse to confess your sins and be forgiven because you claim you are sinless and have no need of forgiveness, yet you say I accommodate sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8


Your pride will be made clear on that Day.


I pray you repent.



JLB
 
Sinners are not going to heaven, they are unrighteous.
Agreed, and those in Christ are not unrighteous !
I almost wonder if anyone has ever told you a born again Christian can sin and be forgiven, by confessing his sin?
Just all the hundreds of other false preachers.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8 - 2:2
Don't walk in sin, and then you can say you have no sin ! (1 John 1:7)
And you can say you have fellowship with Him ! (1 John 1:6)
And you can say you know Him ! (1 John 2:3-4)
 
Repenting, turning to God, by confessing Jesus as Lord is how we start our spiritual life.
Sinners have done neither of your recipe's ingredients.
They have not turned from sin or towards God.
Then as a born again Christian, we are now ready for water baptism; a baptism of repentance of sin.
That won't profit any sinner a whit.
False repentances from sin make false Christians.
 
You refuse to confess your sins and be forgiven because you claim you are sinless and have no need of forgiveness, yet you say I accommodate sin.
I confessed my sins and was forgiven, and, I have remained in the light-God ever since.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
That is true, when said by a sinner.
But we can be washed clean by the blood of Christ so we can say we have no sin.
Your pride will be made clear on that Day.
As will yours.
I pray you repent.
God heareth not sinners. (John 9:31)
Turn from sin, and then start praying.
 
Agreed, and those in Christ are not unrighteous !

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



Right here we see two types of Christians who are in Christ Jesus;
  1. Those who walk according to the flesh; walk in the flesh.
  2. Those who walk according to the Spirit.

If those who are walking in the flesh, maybe baby Christians who know nothing, don't eventually learn to walk in the Spirit, they will ultimately end up being condemned.


Paul says it this way to the Galatians -

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

To go from walking in the flesh to walking in the Spirit, is a transition. Just like any baby has to learn how to walk.

  • of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Paul continues to warn them that they must learn to choose to grow up and learn to walk according to the Spirit or else they won't inherit the kingdom of God; which mean condemnation, cast into the fires of hell.

Paul never condemns them as "never being born again if they sin one time".


If we should sin, we can confess our sin and be forgiven as we learn to walk according to the Spirit.

As we learn to crucify our flesh.



JLB
 
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Right here we see two types of Christians who are in Christ Jesus;
  1. Those who walk according to the flesh; walk in the flesh.
  2. Those who walk according to the Spirit.
You are seeing one kind of Christian.
Only non-Christians walk in the flesh.
"Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
If those who are walking in the flesh, maybe baby Christians who know nothing, don't eventually learn to walk in the Spirit, they will ultimately end up being condemned.
If they are walking in the flesh, they have not repented of sin.
They serve only sin. (Matt 6:24)
Paul says it this way to the Galatians -
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
You seem to doubt that.
To go from walking in the flesh to walking in the Spirit, is a transition. Just like any baby has to learn how to walk.
It happens at rebirth.
There is no accommodation for ongoing sin.
  • of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
I beleive it.
Paul continues to warn them that they must learn to choose to grow up and learn to walk according to the Spirit or else they won't inherit the kingdom of God; which mean condemnation, cast into the fires of hell.
Paul never condemns them as "never being born again if they sin one time".
NO ?
How about in 1 Cor 15:34 ? "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
If we should sin, we can confess our sin and be forgiven as we learn to walk according to the Spirit.
Repent of sin, and there won't be any more sin.
As we learn to crucify our flesh.
It appears you don't know how the flesh is crucified.
Paul writes..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.." (Rom 6:3-7)

Now men have no excuse for sinning.
 
So you believe Saul of Tarsus was already saved before he met Christ, and while he was persecuting and murdering Christian's?
I told you already what i believe, its clearly posted in this thread. Now you said this:

In order to be reconciled to God we must repent; turn to God.

Scripture says Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now explain your contradiction of scripture.
 
JLB

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Correct and the Elect were in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Thats the Eternal Phase of Salvation, they were free of condemnation in Christ and Justified by Grace
 
Free

To change one's mind."

Christ gives that when He saves people Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance here is the greek word metanoia:
  1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
Repentance is from Christ in the matter of Salvation, its part of His Saving Work
 
Thanks for making my point.

As we see it doesn’t say repent of your sins.

Do you understand what repent means?
Here is what I believe.

In the grace of repentance, our soul is awakened to its wretched state before God. We recognize our need for a Savior, and by taking hold of Christ, we are empowered to turn from our sins, renounce the world, and bear our cross, undeterred by the scorn of others or the cost of discipleship.

Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. WCF 15.1

Repentance is the direct and immediate result of God’s work of regeneration in the heart (John 3:3; 3:5; Ezek 36).

Regeneration > Faith > Repentance

Repentance is not forsaking sin that you may turn to Christ, it is turning to Christ that you might forsake sin.

Is repentance necessary for salvation?

It depends on what you mean by repentance.

If you mean 1) that you must stop sinning before coming to Christ then obviously no. But if you mean 2) knowing you cannot save yourself, by grace, you turn from your sin and self-righteousness to trust in Christ alone to deliver you from it, then yes, it is necessary. No one can come to Christ unless they come to Him as the Savior from sin.
Monergism.com

Repent is the translation of metanoeō (μετανοεω) which in classical Greek meant “to change one’s mind or purpose, to change one’s opinion.” The noun metanoia (μετανοια) meant “a change of mind on reflection.” These two words used in classical Greek signified a change of mind regarding anything, but when brought over into the New Testament, their usage is limited to a change of mind in the religious sphere. They refer there to a change of moral thought and reflection which follows moral delinquency. This includes not only the act of changing one’s attitude towards and opinion of sin but also that of forsaking it. Sorrow and contrition with respect to sin, are included in the Bible idea of repentance, but these follow and are consequent upon the sinner’s change of mind with respect to it. The word metamelomai (μεταμελομαι) is used in Mt. 21:29, 32, 27:3; II Cor. 7:8; Heb. 7:21, where it is translated “repent.” Metanoeō (Μετανοεω) is the fuller and nobler term, expressive of moral action and issues. It is the word used by n.t., writers to express the foregoing meaning. In the case of Judas, metamelomai (μεταμελομαι) means “remorse.” In the case of Heb. 7:21 it means only to change one’s mind. The act of repentance is based first of all and primarily upon an intellectual apprehension of the character of sin, man’s guilt with respect to it, and man’s duty to turn away from it. The emotional and volitional aspects of the act of repentance follow, and are the result of this intellectual process of a change of mind with respect to it. This means that the correct approach of the Christian worker to a sinner whom he wishes to lead to the Lord is that of clearly explaining the issues involved. When the unsaved person is made to clearly understand the significance of sin, the intellectual process of changing his mind with respect to it can follow, with the result that sorrow, contrition, and turning away from it will also follow. A mere emotional appeal to the sinner is not the correct one. The Greek word metanoeō (μετανοεω) tells us that the intellectual appeal must come first, since the act of repenting is basically a mental one at the start.


Wuest, K. S. (1997, c1984). Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament : For the English reader (Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: p.27-28). Grand Rapids: Eerdmans.
 
You are seeing one kind of Christian.
Only non-Christians walk in the flesh.

Your preconceived mindset that has been established by false doctrine, (most likely early on in your Christian walk) has exalted itself against the knowledge of God.

Over and over and over, you (your stronghold) replaces the truth of God’s word with the lie of your false teaching. You have said this in
1 John 1:9 and Romans and Galatians and Matthew 18 and everywhere else we have discussed these scriptures.

You keep substituting a non-Christian in place of a Christian when the scripture plainly involves Christian’s; those who are in Christ.

You do this because your false sinless perfection doctrine that has been formed in your mind holds you in bondage to it’s deception.

You have chosen to believe the lie and reject the truth.

The frightening thing is you won’t confess your sins because you have been deceived into thinking you are perfect and sinless.


Here it is again -

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


This verse is only referring to those who are in Christ Jesus.


Where in this verse are non Christians mentioned.




JLB
 
I told you already what i believe, its clearly posted in this thread. Now you said this:



Scripture says Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now explain your contradiction of scripture.

Your claim that Saul of Tarsus was born again before he met Christ is unbiblical.
 
Correct and the Elect were in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

He choose those who were in Christ.

How does a person come to be in Christ?

They believe.
 
Your preconceived mindset that has been established by false doctrine, (most likely early on in your Christian walk) has exalted itself against the knowledge of God.
It was by the knowledge of God that we are able to remain in God...who is the light.
What is your excuse for walking in darkness-sin ?
Over and over and over, you (your stronghold) replaces the truth of God’s word with the lie of your false teaching. You have said this in
1 John 1:9 and Romans and Galatians and Matthew 18 and everywhere else we have discussed these scriptures.
As Jesus said the truth would make us free from service to sin, committing sin, (John 8:32-34), you would be wise to heed them.
Your version of truth merely accommodates sin.
You keep substituting a non-Christian in place of a Christian when the scripture plainly involves Christian’s; those who are in Christ.
As there is no sin in God, your attempts to insert sinners into the light is a lost cause.
Only the washed can walk in God.
You do this because your false sinless perfection doctrine that has been formed in your mind holds you in bondage to it’s deception.
I love the freedom from sin that you resist.
It is here for you, and all others, to partake of; thanks to the death and resurrection of my Lord Jesus Christ.
You have chosen to believe the lie and reject the truth.
John 8:32-34..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
Who is the author of your truth ?
The frightening thing is you won’t confess your sins because you have been deceived into thinking you are perfect and sinless.
One of the benefits of serving God, is not offending God.
Here it is again -
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Yep, those in Christ Jesus don't walk in the flesh !
Their entry into Christ Jesus entailed the destruction of their bygone "flesh".
Rom 6:3-7..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin."

For those in Christ, their old "flesh" was destroyed, so we can't walk in it anymore !
This verse is only referring to those who are in Christ Jesus.
Right, and in them is no condemnation !
Those still walking in and after the flesh will be destroyed on the last say's judgement.
Where in this verse are non Christians mentioned.
That would be those who don't walk in Jesus Christ, but walk in/after the "flesh".
 
Back
Top