brightfame52
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The purpose of God according to election.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Exactly!!!
Thank you for making my point.
Paul was an enemy of God.
Paul repented; He turned to God, which means he turned away from Satan as his lord.
He became a Christian by obeying the LORD.
And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:14-20
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
Only those who obey Jesus Christ are saved.
JLB
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
No mention or use of the word elect in Ephesians, as we see it refers to the Jews who were chosen for purpose not chosen for salvation.
- He chose us that we should be holy and blameless.
Furthermore you lift a verse out of context as usual -
- Only those who hear and believe the Gospel of our salvation are in Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:3-13
JLBbrightfame52
2024 Supporter
Scripture says Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now explain your contradiction of scripture. You said this:
Rom 5:10 doesnt say that. How does it they were reconciled to God ?
There is no contradiction.
There is only you lifting one verse out of context, and ignoring the rest of scripture.
You disregard what Jesus and Paul teach about how anyone is saved... by hearing and believing in Christ and His message of salvation.
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 5:1
How does faith come ?
By hearing the word, Gospel of Jesus Christ , the word of our salvation -
- if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
How do we come to believe?
We hear the Gospel.
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:9-17
You are promoting a Christ-less salvation whereby a person is saved from their mothers womb before they hear and believe in Jesus Christ.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Do you believe Christ loves and died for the world of sinners?
No mention or use of the word elect in Ephesians 1:4, as we see it refers to the Jews who were chosen for purpose not chosen for salvation.
- He chose us that we should be holy and blameless.
Furthermore you lift a verse out of context as usual -
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:3-13
- Only those who hear and believe (trusted in Christ) the Gospel of our salvation, are in Christ.
Learn read the context.
JLB
Chosen and elect are used synonymously.
G1586
ἐκλέγω
eklégō; fut. ekléxō, from ek (G1537), out, and légō (G3004), to select, choose. To choose, select, choose for oneself, not necessarily implying the rejection of what is not chosen, but giving favor to the chosen subject, keeping in view a relationship to be established between the one choosing and the object chosen. It involves preference and selection from among many choices. In the NT found only in the mid. eklégomai.
(I) Generally of things (Luk_10:42; Luk_14:7). Followed by hína (G2443), so that, of purpose (1Co_1:27-28; Sept.: Gen_13:11); of persons followed by the acc. simply (Joh_6:70; Joh_15:16; Act_1:2, Act_1:24; Act_6:5; Act_15:22, Act_15:25; Sept.: 1Sa_8:18; 1Sa_10:24); followed by ek (G1537), from, with the gen. (Joh_15:19); followed by apó (G575) with a gen. (Luk_6:13). With an inf. implied (Jas_2:5 where the implied inf. is eínai [G1511], to be). Followed by en (G1722), among (Act_15:7, "God chose among us . . . that through my mouth" [a.t.]).
(II) By implication, to choose out, with the accessory idea of kindness, favor, love (Mar_13:20; Joh_13:18; Act_13:17; Eph_1:4; Sept.: Deu_4:37; Psa_65:4; Zec_3:2). In some MSS, Luk_9:35 (TR) has eklelegménos, chosen, instead of agapētós (G27), beloved.
Deriv.: eklektós (G1588), chosen, elect.
Syn.: hairéomai (G138), to prefer; hairetízō (G140), to prefer, choose; epilégomai (G1951), to select, choose for oneself.
Ant.: apobállō (G577), to throw off, cast away; aporríptō (G641), to reject, cast off; periphronéō (G4065), to despise.
G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektós; fem. eklektḗ, neut. eklektón, adj. from eklégō (G1586), to choose, select. Chosen, select. In the group of three important biblical words, eklektós, eklégō, and eklogḗ (G1589), choice or election, selection involves thoughtful and deliberate consideration.
(I) Select, choice, elect. Used as an adj. in regard to stone as in 1Pe_2:4, 1Pe_2:6 quoted from Isa_28:16; see Ezr_5:8. In both of these instances the stone is the Lord Jesus Christ as the one chosen of God the Father to accomplish the work of redemption for sinful man. Of persons, chosen or distinguished as in 1Pe_2:9, génos eklektón (génos [G1085], generation), "a chosen generation," referring to the believers in Christ. See Sept.: Isa_43:20. Of angels in 1Ti_5:21, referring to them as chosen by God to minister to the special needs of believers.
(II) By implication meaning chosen, with the accessory idea of kindness, favor, love, equivalent to cherished, beloved. In Luk_23:35, the enemies of Christ around His cross said, "Let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God," which means the one cherished and beloved of God and who was selected to accomplish the work of salvation for others. In Rom_16:13, referring to Rufus, "the chosen one in the Lord" (a.t.), meaning the beloved one as in the previous verse referring to Persis. For Paul, Rufus was special in the Lord. He was dearly beloved. In the pl. hoi eklektoí, the elect, are those chosen of God unto salvation and who therefore enjoy His favor and lead a holy life in communion with Him. They are also called saints (Rom_1:7; Rom_15:31); Christians (Act_11:26; Act_26:28; 1Pe_4:16). The word is used to differentiate those who believe in Christ from those who do not. They are Christians because God chose them from among the lost world to become His followers. A great deal of confusion, however, will ensue if the term "the elect" is understood as composing only those who constitute the church of Jesus Christ during this dispensation of grace. Therefore, to arrive at the proper conclusion of who the elect are in each instance of its occurrence, the context has to be taken into account. In Mat_24:22, Mat_24:24 and Mar_13:20, Mar_13:22 it is evident that the elect are only those who will be saved during the tribulation, not all the saved of all generations. However, the term can refer to believers of all times, including those of the dispensation of grace, the church age, and those who will be saved during the tribulation as in Mat_24:31 and Mar_13:27. Referring to those who are effectively called unto salvation generally (Mat_20:16; Mat_22:14; Rom_8:33; Col_3:12; 2Ti_2:10; Tit_1:1); of the believers who are discriminated against during their lifetime (Luk_18:7). Generally, with a subst. (1Pe_1:2; 2Jn_1:1, 2Jn_1:13) or as a subst. (Rev_17:14).
Deriv.: suneklektós (G4899), elected together with.
Ephesians absolutely is about choosing for salvation, and not just the Jews as you believe.
You contradict yourself.
Look at verse 13 again, what do you see.
God's word proves you wrong.
Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Scripture says Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now explain your contradiction of scripture. You said this:
Rom 5:10 doesnt say that. How does it they were reconciled to God ?brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The Elect were in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,