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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved; Is It Scriptural?
- Thread starter Royff
- Start date
Douglas Summers
Member
Hi Chessmen, Many of the warnings to those to continue in the faith are to the self righteous and deceived. There are many tares among the wheat. (2 Peter chapter 2) It is clear, these people were never saved. After hearing the word and the knowledge to escape the wrath of God, and maybe even saying an Amen.....they went right back to there old way of life (2 Pet. 2:17-22) and joined up with false prophets (self willed religion)....LDS is a good example. 2 Kings 17:24-41 is also a good example. They claimed to worship The God (Elohim), and mixed false gods in their self willed religion. Be sure to read 2 Kings Scripture...it is a good read. I have no fear of losing what God confirmed in me.....my only fear would be, hindering or grieving the Spirit in me to do His work. I do not know how one can say they have been born again, and believe they can lose the gift of eternal life. It is one thing to say God is Merciful and Gracious, but it is another thing to experience God Mercy and Grace and know it is eternal.
In His eternal Mercy and Grace
Douglas Summers
Douglas Summers
Member
chessman
Member
They do not listen to what the Savior actually says I suppose, (eternal life somehow doesn’t really mean to never perish) and make up their own purification customs. Weekly if not daily. What goes around comes around.
They did not listen but kept on doing according to their former customs. So these nations were fearing Yahweh, but they were serving their idols, as were their children and their children’s children; as their ancestors did, they are doing until this day.
2 Kings 17:40-41 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Kings 17:40-41&version=LEBDouglas Summers
Member
This OSAS is a definition made up by man. As a member once said," That OSAS Christians believe they can sin anytime as much as they want and still be saved. There is no such Scripture that supports that definition! But, the Bible teaches eternal security, along with chastisement for sinning saints...Yes, the saints still can sin. (1 John 1:5-10; 2:1-4) (Heb. 12:3-15; Gal. 5:16-17), but the Born again believer does not practice sin. (1 John 3:9) That is why we have Christ as, not only our savior, but our advocate before the throne of Grace...He is our propitiation..
In His ETERNAL Mercy and Grace,
Douglas Summers
civilwarbuff
Member
That doesn't sound much like "lovingly deal with those of us...".
Amen.
The Lord will lovingly deal with those of us, who are living carnal Luke warm lives, in order to stir us up, that we would return to our first love.
He also would call those of us, who have strayed from Him, to repent and return to Him, lest we would be lost for eternity.
Does "lamp stand" here mean salvation? What source says so?
So, does this mean that in order to be "eternally saved" there is something else? Please clarify.
DId the Bible make a mistake when it plainly states that those who believe POSSESS eternal life? John 5:24 and 6:47 speak of having eternal life in the present tense. Not the future tense, which your statement would suggest.
This misunderstands the Greek word for "hope". It's surely not "wishful thinking", as the word is used commonly today.
The Greek word means "confident expectation". Why? Because we are eternally secure. That's our "hope".
And we're confidently expecting is eternity ITSELF. But eternal life has already been given to those who believe, because the Bible actually and plainly says so in John 5:24 and 6:47.
While on earth, we are NOT in heaven. That's the point. We're looking forward, with confident expectation, to heaven.
I said this:
"So, the context for blaspheme not being forgivable is when it is directed at the Holy Spirit."
The context for the Bible saying that blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable was said TO unbelieving Pharisees who actually SAW Jesus cast out demons and they attributed that power to Beelzebub rather than the Holy Spirit.
So there's no way to make such a leap as you've done here.
Furthermore, if eternal security (OSAS) is unbiblical, someone needs to tell Jesus, who said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish (Jn 10:28), which was after He said those who believe POSSESS eternal life (Jn 5:24, 6:47).
So, the Bible teaches that when one believes, they POSSESS eternal life, and that by the very fact that they have been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus.
So, from the MOMENT of faith in Jesus Christ, He promises that those recipients of His free gift of eternal life shall never perish.
Quite straightforward, actually.
"So, the context for blaspheme not being forgivable is when it is directed at the Holy Spirit."
It's rather unfortunate when one only quotes a single line from another's post, totally ignoring the context for that single line.
The context for the Bible saying that blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable was said TO unbelieving Pharisees who actually SAW Jesus cast out demons and they attributed that power to Beelzebub rather than the Holy Spirit.
So there's no way to make such a leap as you've done here.
Furthermore, if eternal security (OSAS) is unbiblical, someone needs to tell Jesus, who said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish (Jn 10:28), which was after He said those who believe POSSESS eternal life (Jn 5:24, 6:47).
So, the Bible teaches that when one believes, they POSSESS eternal life, and that by the very fact that they have been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus.
So, from the MOMENT of faith in Jesus Christ, He promises that those recipients of His free gift of eternal life shall never perish.
Quite straightforward, actually.
Yes. Has anyone seen the Holy Spirit? No. Therefore, this insinuation is fallacious and has no bearing on what the Bible was talking about about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Since Jesus isn't on earth in a physical body and casting out demons, there is NO OPPORTUNITY to do what the Pharisees did.
billybalke
Member
The Bible "has the correct interruption". The inspired scripture is its own best commentary and has final authority.and the reason it is no is because that is how you see scripture . and those that say yes are the same... so to throw a wrench in the spokes .. who has the correct interruption ? this should be interesting
ezra
Member
yes i agree but once again who is right who is wrong
billybalke
Member
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
The Bible doesn't say anything. We infer from the text. Hopefully we consider the whole of Scripture in our understandings. However, those understanding really amount to us holding to a particular view on a matter.
All I ever see in this endless debate is each side throwing out a verse here or there, giving their particular view on that verse, and claiming victory.
Such an approach clearly violates a proper approach to understanding the Bible in its entire context. Never read a Bible verse. A popular apologist likes to put it that way. Always read in context.
Someone is right and someone is wrong. Because two conflicting ideas can't both be right. Frankly, I don't find either view, as has been articulated here over and over, convincing. There are lots of misrepresentations going on in both sides of this debate. And as a believer, I find this endless argument silly and frankly, lacking in maturity (I don't mean this to be derogatory). What I mean by that is this: How many times are you going to continue to repeat your side of this argument? Years? When have you said enough? In my view, it boils down to a waste of time. Endless arguments are NOT profitable to the building of the body of Christ.
I needed to say that. Sorry for the lack of Scripture. How about Titus 3:9
and 2 Timothy 2:23
New International Version
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
New Living Translation
Again I say, don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights.
English Standard Version
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
I think this verse says it all and fully applies here.
In Christ, Papa
All I ever see in this endless debate is each side throwing out a verse here or there, giving their particular view on that verse, and claiming victory.
Such an approach clearly violates a proper approach to understanding the Bible in its entire context. Never read a Bible verse. A popular apologist likes to put it that way. Always read in context.
Someone is right and someone is wrong. Because two conflicting ideas can't both be right. Frankly, I don't find either view, as has been articulated here over and over, convincing. There are lots of misrepresentations going on in both sides of this debate. And as a believer, I find this endless argument silly and frankly, lacking in maturity (I don't mean this to be derogatory). What I mean by that is this: How many times are you going to continue to repeat your side of this argument? Years? When have you said enough? In my view, it boils down to a waste of time. Endless arguments are NOT profitable to the building of the body of Christ.
I needed to say that. Sorry for the lack of Scripture. How about Titus 3:9
and 2 Timothy 2:23
New International Version
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
New Living Translation
Again I say, don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights.
English Standard Version
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
I think this verse says it all and fully applies here.
In Christ, Papa
Douglas Summers
Member
Hi Roy, Here are some verses that confirm eternal security...not OSAS. Study the Scriptures....The Bible does not contradict itself.
(
John 10:27-29 ESV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 5:24 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:28 ESV
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 11:29 ESV
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 8:38-39 ESV
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jude 1:24 ESV
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
2 Corinthians 1:22 ESV
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
1 John 5:13 ESV
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
1 John 5:10-13 ESV
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 4:30 ESV
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 1:13 ESV
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Romans 11:6 ESV
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Hebrews 10:14 ESV
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Romans 8:34 ESV
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
John 6:40 ESV
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
1 John 3:9 ESV
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:47 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Hebrews 13:5 ESV
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
John 3:18 ESV
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22 ESV
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Hebrews 7:25 ESV
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
2 Timothy 2:19 ESV
But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
1 John 3:6-9 ESV
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
ezra
Member
exactly this is what i was looking for ..i have met those who live on both sides of the fence. heck i met some who live in fear of losing salvation for any offense the security of our salvation is clearly there.. what it does not say is because we are under grace we can live how we want . even the southern baptist ministers will say you can not live how you want. granted it sounds confusing to say you can never lose your salvation even though one returns to a sinful lifestyle.. i will be the first to stay this is beyond my understanding.. what i do know is if i do sin and i do.then i am to confess my sins ..my part his part is able to forgive us and clean us up. i also know if i do sin i have a advocate . this debate will never be solved
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
First of all SytheF, your response to me is a TOS violation. And it's uncharitable. And it's a personal attack. Please don't respond to me that way again (or to anyone).The bible doesn't say anything , we infer from the text.
Yeah, that's a pretty ignorant statement.
People who want to avoid quarrels don't make ignorant statements about the Bible that Christians and Bible scholars believe is the word of God.
That way ignorant statements aren't inferred as saying, God doesn't say anything in his word. We infer from the text.
We do infer from the text. Saying that isn't the same as saying that God doesn't have a particular and specific idea He wishes to communicate. He does. We infer meaning from all texts. Some are clear, some are not. It's the nature of reading. We read for comprehension and that's not always a straight forward task.
I'm simply using a play on words to make a point. If you disagree, that's fine. But you need to be respectful about it.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Yeah, that's kinda my point. I was trying to be careful with how I said things because I really think there are rich topics we could explore (without endless arguing) and this is an old tired topic. I'll go back to my corner now.