Bible Study Every Man's Battle: The Way to Win.

[Tenchi]

So you've admitted that it's "a result of Adam's sin in Eden", right?

I've acknowledged what God's word says, yes. And it says only that we suffer the consequences of Adam's sin, not any guilt for his sin.

Not just "self-interest" for self-preservation? Then what are we still arguing about? Just over semantics? "Original Sin" is not a mistaken notion, it's plainly stated in Rom. 5:12 and it's the logical conclusion of God's original salvation plan.

You're arguing for the idea of Original Sin which is a mistaken notion, as I've shown from Scripture. Romans 5:12 does not "plainly state" this erroneous doctrine.

Romans 5:12-14
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Verse 12 doesn't say anything about Adam's sin - and the guilt for it - being imputed to all of mankind. It just doesn't, as one can see by actually looking at the verse. By his God-disobedient choice, Adam introduced sin into the world and, as a consequence of his sin, death also entered the world. But Adam's sin also separated Man from God spiritually, moving humanity out from under God's direct spiritual control, which has resulted in their being sinful, too. And so, all of humanity, cut off from God spiritually by Adam's sin and inevitably migrating into sin as a consequence, end up dying, too. This is all I see in the passage above. There is no mention at all of sin-guiltiness inherited by Adam, no imputation of Adam's sin to all of his descendants. And there wouldn't be, since God expressly and repeatedly forbade such "justice" (Ezekiel 18:19-20; Deuteronomy 24:16).

What isn't biblical is your denial of human sin nature.

??? No, I've indicated that Scripture describes a "sin-nature" that operates within all human beings. But it isn't a nature that makes a person guilty of sin from the womb. No, it is only a nature that is, as Scripture tells us, unregulated by God, that is out from under His control and constraint, and thus inevitably becomes sinful. And so, nowhere does Scripture ever condemn newborn children as sinful (though, as I've shown, some like to misconstrue Psalm 51:5 as saying this).

You denounce original sin because you don't understand that although the wages of sin is death, sin doesn't die with the sinner, the only thing mankind has learned from history is that mankind has learned nothing from history, as history always rhymes itself. Of course you're only guilty of your own sin, but where did that sin originate from? Hmmm?

I've explained very biblically where it comes from.

You know, throughout this whole time you're playing the trick of redefing the word "sin" in your own terms - first a behavior, then limited to what Adam personally had committed in Gen. 3. Well excuse me as my mind is not as narrow as yours, and I believe it does NOT matter as Jesus said in Jn. 9:3.

No, I've not redefined the term "sin." Not at all. Instead, I just have a better definition of it than you do, one that appears to be more fully informed by God's word than your definition is. Unfortunately, your...cartoon of my view of sin doesn't at all properly represent what I've explained about sin and the nature of human beings. And so, I've no obligation to defend your cartoon of what I believe.

My mind, as best as I'm able to make it so, is "narrow" as much as God's word requires it to be. For such narrowness I have no need to make explanation or apology. As far as I'm concerned, it's the one who is more "open-minded" and thus outside of divine Truth, who needs to do so.

See, still in denial.

Nope, merely stating the fact of the matter.

What Paul identifies as "sin" is what the law has reflected. The "law of sin" is his sin nature, the "law of God" is the mosaic law that reflects that sin nature.

Yes, the law of God exposes sin for what it is by clearly defining moral right and wrong.

Paul's human nature, his "flesh," being by default unsubmitted to God, as I've explained, is not able, by itself, to seek the things of God, to put itself under God's will. Instead, as Paul explained in Romans 7, his fleshly (i.e sin) nature is just provoked by God's law to rebellion against it. This reflexive rebellion toward God, this natural disposition to seek our own will and way, to fulfill our own self-interest, even when doing so disobeys God, is the "law of sin in our members."

Romans 8:6-8
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

And so, in the NT, we are enjoined as children of God to submit to, yield to, humble ourselves before, present ourselves as slaves and living sacrifices to, God (Romans 6:13-22; Romans 12:1; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:6).

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

...that natural tendency deep within Paul's phyche - "the things of the flesh", as you call it, against his will to obey God is the Original Sin.

No, it's not the Original Sin of Adam put upon us from birth thus making us guilty of his sin, but the sin-nature which is an effect of the Fall in Eden that brings all people eventually into sin and death.

Once again, you denounce Original Sin not because it's false, you just don't like the sound of it, you have to reframe it in sophisticated terms which make you feel more comfortable.

No, this is just how you wish to frame my views. This version of my view (actually, of my personal preference) that you've produced here is called a Strawman, which is a fallacious form of argument.

I don't feel "challenged",

That's fine. But you are challenged, nonetheless, as I offer an alternative view to your own. What you may or may not feel about that challenge doesn't dissolve that your view has been challenged.

And as I've clarified, of course you're not held guilty for Adam's or any of your ancestors' sins,

Amen!

as I've questioned, have you ever exhibited the same behavior pattern that Adam did? First break the law, then cover it up in fear, and when get caught, make excuse to shift blame? If so, then you're as guilty as Adam.

Yes, I've never denied that this is so. In fact, in my own way, I've described what you have here as the actual state-of-affairs of every human being at least a couple of times in this thread.

It is you who have a limited and erroneous understanding of sin, and subsequently a limited understanding of Christ's atonement for sin.

Well, obviously I think this is quite wrong. And you've certainly not shown in this thread that you're accurate in your description, here. But, you're entitled to your opinion.

It is you who has such an enormous ego, that you not only can't accept a different opinion, but can't even accept a similar opinion in different terms

Uh huh.

I can tell you that I've been living in peace and contentment with no guilt in life and no fear in death, Lord Jesus had set me free.

Uh huh.

Your false premise is redefining sin as a behavior instead of human nature, see above.

Nope. See above.

"Original Sin" doesn't mean that we're held guilty of Adam's sin, but the sins we're guilty of all originate from Adam's sin,

Well, sort of. This is certainly a better way of describing what God's word says than what I've encountered from other folk putting forward the doctrine of Original Sin.

The bible also says that all have sinned, there's none righteous, no, not one; the only one who was truly sinless is Jesus.

Right. But your assertion was that no one could be as God wanted them to be apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit who gives a person, in himself, a "new nature," the Christ-nature (2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 8:9; Galatians 3:27; Titus 3:5). Job, Noah, Moses, King David, and Cornelius all demonstrate that this isn't the case. Each of these men, though not indwelt by the Spirit in the manner of New Covenant Christian and thus not in possession of the new nature, are, as I showed, given very high praise in Scripture.

You're just turning a blind eye to all of these.

No, I'm not. But I am showing from Scripture that the "T" in TULIP doesn't comport well with the facts of God's word. And I was demonstrating to you also that men were worthy of high praise from God who were not "new creatures in Christ" by the indwelling Holy Spirit, which you seemed to think was impossible.

Anybody can do good and behave well out of fear, those are merely works of the law,

Is this what Scripture indicates was the motive behind the praiseworthy lives of these men? Would God praise them if this was why they "behaved well"? I don't think so, if, by "fear," you just mean "fear of God's wrath and punishment."

What new spiritual nature entails, though, is LOVE for God, a fundamental transformation from a God fearer to a God lover.

Right. And in light of this, what motive is offered for the praiseworthy conduct of men like Job, Noah, Moses, David and Cornelius? I don't recall reading of these men in Scripture that fear of God as Punisher was their chief motivation...

 

[KV-44-v1]

Original Sin" doesn't mean that we're held guilty of Adam's sin, but the sins we're guilty of all originate from Adam's sin, which by no means contradicts Deuteronomy 24 and Ezekiel 18.

Original sin teaching is arbitrary. So why do only adams sin stay on us, but not the sins of alllllll our ancestors?? Why only conveniently adam? the guilt would build and build exponentially.

Im surprised we made it to 2024 and that Revelation didn't happen in 1000.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Original sin teaching is arbitrary. So why do only adams sin stay on us, but not the sins of alllllll our ancestors?? Why only conveniently adam? the guilt would build and build exponentially.

Good point !

Im surprised we made it to 2024 and that Revelation didn't happen in 1000.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I've acknowledged what God's word says, yes. And it says only that we suffer the consequences of Adam's sin, not any guilt for his sin.

Then as I've pointed out at the beginning, this may be just a misunderstanding. Whatever sin everyone's guilty of originated from Adam's sin, that's what Original Sin means.

You're arguing for the idea of Original Sin which is a mistaken notion, as I've shown from Scripture. Romans 5:12 does not "plainly state" this erroneous doctrine.

I ask you again, have you ever done something against your own conscience, tried to hide it out of fear, and made excuses to exonerate yourself when you got caught? If yes, then Original Sin is not erroneous, any mistaken notion is yours.

Verse 12 doesn't say anything about Adam's sin - and the guilt for it - being imputed to all of mankind. It just doesn't, as one can see by actually looking at the verse. By his God-disobedient choice, Adam introduced sin into the world and, as a consequence of his sin, death also entered the world. But Adam's sin also separated Man from God spiritually, moving humanity out from under God's direct spiritual control, which has resulted in their being sinful, too. And so, all of humanity, cut off from God spiritually by Adam's sin and inevitably migrating into sin as a consequence, end up dying, too. This is all I see in the passage above. There is no mention at all of sin-guiltiness inherited by Adam, no imputation of Adam's sin to all of his descendants. And there wouldn't be, since God expressly and repeatedly forbade such "justice" (Ezekiel 18:19-20; Deuteronomy 24:16).

But it does say that all have sinned, right? And why is that? I'm not here to arguing whose sin it is, the doctrine of Original Sin is just an acknowledgement that we live in a broken world, and everybody is born as a sinner - as a CONSEQUENCE of Adam's sin, exactly as you said. .

??? No, I've indicated that Scripture describes a "sin-nature" that operates within all human beings. But it isn't a nature that makes a person guilty of sin from the womb. No, it is only a nature that is, as Scripture tells us, unregulated by God, that is out from under His control and constraint, and thus inevitably becomes sinful. And so, nowhere does Scripture ever condemn newborn children as sinful

The Scripture tells us clearly that one must be born again to enter the kingdom (Jn. 3:3), no flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom (1 Cor. 15:50), the only reason for that is human sin nature, which is incompatible with God's kingdom. And as I've pointed out repeatedly, that "unregulated nature" IS the sin nature. If you suggest that all babies are born sinless like Jesus, then you're promoting Nietzschean humanism, that's the only alternative.

(though, as I've shown, some like to misconstrue Psalm 51:5 as saying this).

You're the one who misconstrut that verse by shaming the Psalmist's mother.

I've explained very biblically where it comes from.

So have I - from sin nature. Any denial of that is just your own theological spin, it doesn't change anything the bible says.

No, I've not redefined the term "sin." Not at all. Instead, I just have a better definition of it than you do, one that appears to be more fully informed by God's word than your definition is. Unfortunately, your...cartoon of my view of sin doesn't at all properly represent what I've explained about sin and the nature of human beings. And so, I've no obligation to defend your cartoon of what I believe.

"Sin" means missing the mark, deviating from the destination, a tendency to do whatever you're enticed to do instead of what you should do, that's in everyone's nature, not just an "unregulated" state. In fact, God did regulate with a whole system of laws - in RESPONSE to that nature. You have no better informed view of it as long as you've got the causation wrong, and you're too egotistic to see it.

My mind, as best as I'm able to make it so, is "narrow" as much as God's word requires it to be. For such narrowness I have no need to make explanation or apology. As far as I'm concerned, it's the one who is more "open-minded" and thus outside of divine Truth, who needs to do so.

Biblical truth is settled, but Biblical understanding always evolves. The bible requires an open mind for "doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction" (Heb. 3:16), not a narrow mind to shut out any new information and evidence. As far as I'm concerned, you have no humility to listen, you have no growth mindset, may God have mercy on you and soften your heart.

Nope, merely stating the fact of the matter.

Then check out how many "no"s, "not"s and "nope"s you have stated, let your "fact of the matter" speak for itself.

Yes, the law of God exposes sin for what it is by clearly defining moral right and wrong.

Paul's human nature, his "flesh," being by default unsubmitted to God, as I've explained, is not able, by itself, to seek the things of God, to put itself under God's will. Instead, as Paul explained in Romans 7, his fleshly (i.e sin) nature is just provoked by God's law to rebellion against it. This reflexive rebellion toward God, this natural disposition to seek our own will and way, to fulfill our own self-interest, even when doing so disobeys God, is the "law of sin in our members."

Then that IS nature - his FLESHY nature, not nurture. Whatever temptation there was simply provoked it.

And so, in the NT, we are enjoined as children of God to submit to, yield to, humble ourselves before, present ourselves as slaves and living sacrifices to, God (Romans 6:13-22; Romans 12:1; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:6).

I don't see any humility in you, you're incorrigible. You don't even understand the difference between guilty of Adam's sin and guilty of each one's one sin - which originated from Adam's sin.

Case in point, a biblical example: Israelites erected a golden calf and worshipped it in Ex. 32:4, Jeroboam erected TWO and worshipped them in 1 Kings 12:28. By no means am I suggesting that Jeroboam will be held accountable for his ancestors' idolatry at mount Sinai, he was only responsible for his own two golden calves, but gee, I wonder where his idea of these golden calves came from? He even made the same proclamation - "Here are your gods, O Israel, which brought you up from the land of Egypt!" I'm sure that must be a coincidence, right?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, it's not the Original Sin of Adam put upon us from birth thus making us guilty of his sin, but the sin-nature which is an effect of the Fall in Eden that brings all people eventually into sin and death.

Adam's sin is his own, but sin nature perpetuates his sin which didn't die with him, whatever sin each one's guilty of all ORIGINATES from him, that's what "sin entered the world" means in Rom. 5:12.

No, this is just how you wish to frame my views. This version of my view (actually, of my personal preference) that you've produced here is called a Strawman, which is a fallacious form of argument.

You have no understanding of the Original Sin. It is you who's been making strawman arguments by misconstruing my words the whole time.

That's fine. But you are challenged, nonetheless, as I offer an alternative view to your own. What you may or may not feel about that challenge doesn't dissolve that your view has been challenged.

You've offered no alternative view, for the only alternative view is Nietzsche's "clean slate" at birth. You've only offered your own Newspeak version based on your faulty perception that sin is merely "God unregulated, self interested" behavior, not human nature.

Yes, I've never denied that this is so.

Yes you have, as long as you deny Original Sin. Your description "in your own way" is your denial because you feel challaenged and uncomfortable with the term Original Sin. It's all your ego, nothing else.

Well, obviously I think this is quite wrong. And you've certainly not shown in this thread that you're accurate in your description, here. But, you're entitled to your opinion.

What I'm entitled to is the core gospel message that Jesus died for my sin and the biblical fact Jesus is original, the Seed in Gen. 3:15 is not an afterthought or a "fix" for the Fall. And so, a simple logical conclusion that sin must be original and anticipated - regardless of WHOSE sin it was. Denial of original sin is denial of original salvation.

Nope. See above.

Yes, see above.

Well, sort of. This is certainly a better way of describing what God's word says than what I've encountered from other folk putting forward the doctrine of Original Sin.

All this time you're being hypersensitive, you're just being triggered by the mention of this term, that's what this is all about.

Right. But your assertion was that no one could be as God wanted them to be apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit who gives a person, in himself, a "new nature," the Christ-nature (2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 8:9; Galatians 3:27; Titus 3:5). Job, Noah, Moses, King David, and Cornelius all demonstrate that this isn't the case. Each of these men, though not indwelt by the Spirit in the manner of New Covenant Christian and thus not in possession of the new nature, are, as I showed, given very high praise in Scripture.

But none of them was as sinless and perfect as Jesus, none of them was justified by their own righteous deeds.

No, I'm not. But I am showing from Scripture that the "T" in TULIP doesn't comport well with the facts of God's word. And I was demonstrating to you also that men were worthy of high praise from God who were not "new creatures in Christ" by the indwelling Holy Spirit, which you seemed to think was impossible.

Nowhere in the bible says only those indwelt by the Spirit gives high praise to God. All Pharisees praised God and did righteous deeds, they were the honorable teachers and role models which everybody in Israel looked up to, and yet they were the most condemned by Jesus, even more so than the prostitudes, roman soldiers and tax collectors.

Is this what Scripture indicates was the motive behind the praiseworthy lives of these men? Would God praise them if this was why they "behaved well"? I don't think so, if, by "fear," you just mean "fear of God's wrath and punishment."

Yes, that's known as the "negativity bias", selling hell always draws more attention and brings more people to God than selling heaven.

Right. And in light of this, what motive is offered for the praiseworthy conduct of men like Job, Noah, Moses, David and Cornelius? I don't recall reading of these men in Scripture that fear of God as Punisher was their chief motivation...

Neither do I recall anywhere in Scripture where any of them was described as a God lover, Job for instance was chiefly identified as a God FEARER, no other motivation was explicitly mentioned. It's not like there's anything wrong with that, the spirit of the fear of God is reigning spirit, and His delight is in the fear of God (Is. 11:2-3), but this spirit is not the Holy Spirit, fear of God doesn't draw you closer to God and develop a close relationship with God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Original sin teaching is arbitrary. So why do only adams sin stay on us, but not the sins of alllllll our ancestors?? Why only conveniently adam? the guilt would build and build exponentially.

Original means the first, and the first human being was Adam, none of our ancestors predate Adam. That's a fact, not arbitrary teaching.

 

[JLB]

Well, if it was possible for people to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit in the manner they are within the New Covenant, then, why bother with the Atonement at all?

Atonement? That’s not what we have in the New Testament.

That’s what the children of Israel had under the law of Moses.

Atone means cover; like pitch on a roof.

Atone is what the blood of animals did.

The blood of Jesus removes, takes away, washes us clean from our sin. Not cover.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4


That’s why the Old Testament saints were preserved alive in paradise, in the heart of the earth, until Jesus went down and preached to the saints, the spirits of just men, and then they were able to go to heaven.


Atonement is used once in the New Testamemt and is translated as reconciliation. Which is not the same definition as the Old Testament use of the word.


And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Romans 5:11 KJV


And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11 NKJV

 

[RBDERRICK]

​

But God, in His word, the Bible, freely offers a "way of escape" from all sin to any who want to take it.

The only way out of the sinning business is through Jesus Christ. The only way to come to Jesus Christ to be delievered from sinning, is by repentance from the deeds of sin for His mercy's sake:

Acts 17:30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Heb 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Sinful man repents of the deeds, and Jesus Christ mercifully takes the lust away by grace.
Any man created in the image of God can manage his own words and deeds, but once any man sins against the Lord, no man can take away his own lust from the corrupted heart.

Sin is a Symptom, not a Root Cause.There is no effective remedy from sin, however, no real liberty from it, without dealing with the Source of All Sin.

Lust against the will of God is the first sin of angels and men, and is the driving power of sin for all the sinful deeds of men, that follow their lust:

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

Eze 28:15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Jesus Christ comes with resurrection power to take away the lust for sin from the heart:

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

2Pe 1:3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Jo 3:5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

This promised NT blessing of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, is now commanded to every man to repent of their deeds, that they may have their own lust taken away in the Spirit's circumcision of Christ.

Deu 10:16Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Col 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Well, it was the same thing, at bottom, that had prompted the devil to rebel against his Maker: Self-will.

An acceptable term for lusting against the will of God.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Angels and men that sin are drawn away of their own will, and enticed to disobey God, and do their own will. Only doing the will of God abides with God forever.

Mat 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

1 John {2:17} And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Men can repent of deeds, but no man can repent of his own self-will of lust.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The Old Self can't be improved.

True. Man's devices of religion and self-imporvment are the sin management business of sinners with lust, not the Father's business of taking lust away in the pure religion and hearts and lives.

{7:8} Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

The Church is sick with sin.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Man's substitution for pure religion of Jesus Christ, is repentance in part, not with a whole heart. God's repentance granted unto life is only from all deeds of transgression.

Incomplete repentance is governed by one's own will, and the lust for sinning remains untaken away by Jesus Christ.

is filled with the "leaven" of sin that only a little of which, the apostle Paul warned, would "leaven the whole lump" and make the entire community of believers spiritually corrupt and impotent,

The lust remains so long as the deeds are not wholly repented of. The Christian religion's sin management business is through the gospel of salvation by faith unto willing repentance only.

The pure religion of Jesus Christ is by godly repentance unto salvation from lust and sinning by the Spirit of the Lord.

2Co 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Jas 1:27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

The one clear line between the commanded repentance granted by God unto life, and the self-willed repentance of man, is from all deeds or not, half-hearted rather than whole.

The lust remains in a corrupt heart, so long as the deeds continue. The Spirit of the Lord only delivers the whole heart, soul, and mind from all lust.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Co 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

In such circumstances, it's no surprise that various sinful addictions plague the Church.

Sinning plagues every corrupt heart of lust. Some more, some less, but always dead to the Spirit of the Lord.

The sin management business seeks to control lust, by sinning with the body less than before, by the power of one's own will alone.

Mat 23:26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Eph 4:28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Walking in the Spirit. So, then, what is it, exactly, to "walk in the Spirit"?

Walking with a pure heart born of the Spirit, and living blamelessly through the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 2:6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

"But if you are led by the Spirit,"

"Led by the Spirit"? What's this mean?

A pure heart led by the Spirit to eschew evil, and do good.

No heart corrupted with lust is, nor can be, led of the Spirit to walk with God.

Rom 8:5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Walking with a pure heart born of the Spirit, and living blamelessly through the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just stroll outside around the neighborhood after dinner, listening to a sermon with earbuds plugged in, concentrating and meditating on God's words. It's not easy as you think, you know, as we're being constantly distracted by the noise, we're being surrounded by other evil spirits who're pulling us in other directions away from God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If by "original sin" you mean "first sin", I agree.
But not if you mean the catholic's dogma of original sin.
The old me took after Adam and Eve.

Of course original sin means first sin, what else do you think it is? Point is that it didn't die with Adam and Eve, it spread to the entire world THROUGH Adam.

Jesus didn't sin.
Your citing has an expiration date on it.

Jesus was NATURALLY born of the Holy Spirit, nobody else was.

How can a sin die ?
How can a sin live ?
It is just something one does, or doesn't do.
It is like saying walking lives and dies.

We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but evil spirits - which do NOT die with the flesh and blood.

You've lost me...

You asked for a verse to prove that "future generations repeat and escalate their ancestor's sin," I gave you a good example - from one golden calf to two.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Of course original sin means first sin, what else do you think it is?

Some use the term to indicate some mythical passed down sin.

Point is that it didn't die with Adam and Eve, it spread to the entire world THROUGH Adam.

How can a sin live ?

Jesus was NATURALLY born of the Holy Spirit, nobody else was.

Everyone reborn of God's seed is born of the Spirit.

We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but evil spirits - which do NOT die with the flesh and blood.

Spirits don't die.
Are you calling sin a spirit ?

You asked for a verse to prove that "future generations repeat and escalate their ancestor's sin," I gave you a good example - from one golden calf to two.

Which of your ancestor's sins have you escalated with your life ?
And why did you do that ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Some use the term to indicate some mythical passed down sin.

Mythical or not, passed down or not, we live in a sinful and broken world - "Cursed is the ground for your sake" - Gen. 3:17.

How can a sin live ?

I don't know, you tell me why sin didn't die with Adam, but instead entered into the world through Adam.

Everyone reborn of God's seed is born of the Spirit.

REborn, not born.

Spirits don't die.
Are you calling sin a spirit ?

Again, you tell me what sin means to you. These days same word means completely different things to different people.

Which of your ancestor's sins have you escalated with your life ?
And why did you do that ?

You tell me what your ancestor's sins were you guilty of first. Since you denied in #55, neither will I tell you.

 

[RBDERRICK]

It's not easy as you think, you know,

Pro 13:15Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.

Mat 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Since it's God's words, you can complain to Him.

Rom 8:6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are into the flesh cannot please God.

It's not only hard, but impossible for sinners with corrupt hearts of lust, to ever walk uprightly before the Lord with a pure conscience.

That's why Jesus Christ is come to take away the lust of the world, to make a whole new heart of God for them that repent of their deeds of transgression.

And so, if you want to know and do the truth of Jesus Christ for yourself, then repent and He will do likewise for you.

 

[Tenchi]

Atonement? That’s not what we have in the New Testament.

That’s what the children of Israel had under the law of Moses.

Atone means cover; like pitch on a roof.

Atone is what the blood of animals did.

The blood of Jesus removes, takes away, washes us clean from our sin. Not cover.

Well, instead of assuming what I meant by "Atonement," you might have asked me what I meant. If you had, the above would have been unnecessary.

John 1:29
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 9:24-26
24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,
26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Isaiah 53:5-6
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That’s why the Old Testament saints were preserved alive in paradise, in the heart of the earth, until Jesus went down and preached to the saints, the spirits of just men, and then they were able to go to heaven.

Scripture, please.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Mythical or not, passed down or not, we live in a sinful and broken world - "Cursed is the ground for your sake" - Gen. 3:17.

We live on this world, but we are not part of this world.

I don't know, you tell me why sin didn't die with Adam, but instead entered into the world through Adam.

Sin has no life, so can neither live nor die.

REborn, not born.

That is right.
And thus no longer subject to the flesh.

Again, you tell me what sin means to you. These days same word means completely different things to different people.

All unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)
"Sin" is the name given to disobedience to God.

You tell me what your ancestor's sins were you guilty of first.

I was not guilty of anyone's sins but my own.

Since you denied in #55, neither will I tell you.

That is an unequal response.
I didn't refuse to answer your question in post #55.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's not only hard, but impossible for sinners with corrupt hearts of lust, to ever walk uprightly before the Lord with a pure conscience.

What's impossible for man is possible for God. I'm not here to complain or to lecture, I walk with the Lord, I walk with pure conscience and joie de vivre. What I posted is just a simple reminder of our short attention span and the constant distractions in modern life. Listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit requires you to filter out all the noise, especially those from the social media.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I walk with the Lord, I walk with pure conscience and joie de vivre.

Does this mean you now believe we can walk in perfect obedience to God ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

We live on this world, but we are not part of this world.

Nontheless, consequences of sin remain.

Sin has no life, so can neither live nor die.

But Satan and the evil spirits that tempt everyone to sin live until they are cast into the Lake of Fire.

That is right.
And thus no longer subject to the flesh.

But before that, everyone is born a sinner.

All unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)
"Sin" is the name given to disobedience to God.

So?

I was not guilty of anyone's sins but my own.

I never accused you of anyone's sin. Whatever sin you're guilty of originated from Adam, his sin was the first sin, that's all.

Also, you may wanna reconsider that if you're in any leadership position. Somebody in your group screws up, chances are, you'd be held accountable before them.

That is an unequal response.
I didn't refuse to answer your question in post #55.

Neither did I refuse to answer yours. You asked for a verse to prove how sin escalated, I provided.