Bible Study Every Man's Battle: The Way to Win.

[Carry_Your_Name]

Does this mean you now believe we can walk in perfect obedience to God ?

No one is perfectly obedient to God but Jesus.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nontheless, consequences of sin remain.

Sure.
There are still unexploded bombs in the ground of Europe.

But Satan and the evil spirits that tempt everyone to sin live until they are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Yes, but by the grace of God we have been equipt to resist them all.

But before that, everyone is born a sinner.

Nobody was born a sinner, as there is no sinner until one commits a sin.

So?

You seem yo want to imbue life to the word "sin".

I never accused you of anyone's sin. Whatever sin you're guilty of originated from Adam, his sin was the first sin, that's all.

My past sins originated only in me.

Also, you may wanna reconsider that if you're in any leadership position. Somebody in your group screws up, chances are, you'd be held accountable before them.

If it were a "chances are" proposition, your whole argument dies on the vine.

Neither did I refuse to answer yours. You asked for a verse to prove how sin escalated, I provided.

One sin can breed many more sins, but it doesn't have to all of the time.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No one is perfectly obedient to God but Jesus.

Sorry you have yet to learn 1 Peter 4:1...
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
You said in post # 78..."I walk with the Lord, I walk with pure conscience..." .
If you are not perfectly obedient to God, how can you have a pure conscience ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Sure.
There are still unexploded bombs in the ground of Europe.

Yes, but by the grace of God we have been equipt to resist them all.

Then this is still a sinful and broken world.

Nobody was born a sinner, as there is no sinner until one commits a sin.

Then what's the need for rebirth?

You seem yo want to imbue life to the word "sin".

I didn't, Paul did:

Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. (1 Cor. 15:36)

My past sins originated only in me.

How so? You said, "nobody was born a sinner", what did your sins originate from if you were a "nobody"?

If it were a "chances are" proposition, your whole argument dies on the vine.

Then you have no experience in any leadership position, or you'd understand.

One sin can breed many more sins, but it doesn't have to all of the time.

It does. Ever pining.

If you are not perfectly obedient to God, how can you have a pure conscience ?

In the same way you do. You're not sinless as long as you're subject to mortality, for the wages of sin is death.

 

[RBDERRICK]

What's impossible for man is possible for God. I'm not here to complain or to lecture, I walk with the Lord, I walk with pure conscience and joie de vivre. What I posted is just a simple reminder of our short attention span and the constant distractions in modern life. Listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit requires you to filter out all the noise, especially those from the social media.

Just stroll outside around the neighborhood after dinner, listening to a sermon with earbuds plugged in, concentrating and meditating on God's words. It's not easy as you think

Then no need to be snotty about it.

Goodbye

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then this is still a sinful and broken world.

Why does that have such an influence on you ?

Then what's the need for rebirth?

Rebirth of ex-sinners by/of the seed of God allows our new walk in the Spirit, instead of in the flesh.

I didn't, Paul did:
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. (1 Cor. 15:36)

Your out of context citing has no bearing on your "sin is alive" idea.

How so? You said, "nobody was born a sinner", what did your sins originate from if you were a "nobody"?

I committed the sins that originated in me.
Those sins were not around, until I did them.

Then you have no experience in any leadership position, or you'd understand.

I am only responsible for my life and its deeds, nobody else's.

It does. Ever pining.

What ever that was intended to mean. ?

In the same way you do.

Then you HAVE repented of sin and been water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins !
Good !

You're not sinless as long as you're subject to mortality,

I would like to know who it is that espouses that doctrine, as others have presented it here previously.
Is that a baptist doctrine ?
They are apparently unaware of 2 Cor 5:17-18..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"
Their inference is that what God has "made new", is full of sin !
They are also unaware of 1 Tim 5:24..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after."
My past sins earned me death, and my judgement was just.
Now, I have been blessed with the ability to walk in and after the Spirit.

for the wages of sin is death.

The wages I was paid for my sins was indeed death.
But that death occurred at my baptism into Christ, and into His death, burial, and resurrection, as a new creature.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Ga 5:24)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why does that have such an influence on you ?

'cause I don't bury my head in the sand. Christianity is not a cave to hide from the world.

Rebirth of ex-sinners by/of the seed of God allows our new walk in the Spirit, instead of in the flesh.

You said nobody is born a sinner, not me. If so, what's the need for rebirth?

Your out of context citing has no bearing on your "sin is alive" idea.

The bearing is that the wages of sin is death. Any mortal death is evidence.

I committed the sins that originated in me.
Those sins were not around, until I did them.

No, those sins are always around, you commit them after other people's example, with or without your awareness. Any denial is just your egoism, you're full of yourself.

I am only responsible for my life and its deeds, nobody else's.

Then as I said, you have no experience in any leadership position, you have no responsibility to anybody else.

What ever that was intended to mean. ?

See the example of the Israelites' one golden calf and king Jeroboam's two.

Then you HAVE repented of sin and been water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins !
Good !

The difference is that I don't pretend that I live in a sinless paradise, I see the world I'm still living in as what it is - broken and sinful.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I would like to know who it is that espouses that doctrine, as others have presented it here previously.
Is that a baptist doctrine ?

It's not a doctrine, but a fact - sin leads to death, James 1:15. The espousal is the fact that everybody eventually dies, even Jesus died for the sins of the world, Rev. 1:18.

The wages I was paid for my sins was indeed death.
But that death occurred at my baptism into Christ, and into His death, burial, and resurrection, as a new creature.

No, death occurred at your last heart beat. As long as you live, the old man is still alive and persecuring the new, says the bible.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal. 4:28-29)

 

[Hopeful 2]

'cause I don't bury my head in the sand. Christianity is not a cave to hide from the world.

You only hurt yourself by being part of this world.

You said nobody is born a sinner, not me. If so, what's the need for rebirth?

Those born of women will invariably commit sin.
Sinners need to be reborn of God's seed.
Adam's seed commits sin.
Those reborn of God don't.

The bearing is that the wages of sin is death. Any mortal death is evidence.

Side-track not withstanding, what sin are you accusing dead babies of ?

No, those sins are always around, you commit them after other people's example, with or without your awareness. Any denial is just your egoism, you're full of yourself.

Your POV is ridiculous.
"Sins have life"...ludicrous.
"Unaware of sins"... also ludicrous, based on James 1:14-15.

Then as I said, you have no experience in any leadership position, you have no responsibility to anybody else.

I have responsibility for myself, and nobody else.
You seem intent on spreading condemnation around to everyone !
Babies, me because of those subject to me, everyone on earth.

See the example of the Israelites' one golden calf and king Jeroboam's two.

I suppose you think those sins will be charged to you ?

The difference is that I don't pretend that I live in a sinless paradise,

This world of subjection to Christ and to His Father is no paradise.
It is, however, the only way to paradise.

I see the world I'm still living in as what it is - broken and sinful.

You also can't see the way to escape it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's not a doctrine, but a fact - sin leads to death, James 1:15. The espousal is the fact that everybody eventually dies, even Jesus died for the sins of the world, Rev. 1:18.

It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
My death already occurred, (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24), before I was reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

No, death occurred at your last heart beat. As long as you live, the old man is still alive and persecuring the new, says the bible.

See above.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal. 4:28-29)

As it is the children of the "flesh" that you cite as persecutors, from whom are you born ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You only hurt yourself by being part of this world.

I wouldn't have been squabbling with you on this forum if I were being part of this world.

Those born of women will invariably commit sin.
Sinners need to be reborn of God's seed.
Adam's seed commits sin.
Those reborn of God don't.

I didn't ask you about rebirth, I asked you what's the need for that. If nobody is born a sinner, nobody needs to be reborn in spirit, the solution for sin would be a return to the "pristine" infant state which, according to you, is totally sinless.

Side-track not withstanding, what sin are you accusing dead babies of ?

Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath.

Your POV is ridiculous.
"Sins have life"...ludicrous.
"Unaware of sins"... also ludicrous, based on James 1:14-15.

Sins don't have life, sinners do. You're unaware of sin if you prefer darkness over light, Jn. 3:19-21.

I have responsibility for myself, and nobody else.
You seem intent on spreading condemnation around to everyone !
Babies, me because of those subject to me, everyone on earth.

Then as I said, you're full of yourself, you don't care about anybody else, having nobody's interest and feelings in your heart.

I suppose you think those sins will be charged to you ?

Idk, ask yourself what's your own golden calf which you worship as an idol and defend with all your being. So far the "sinless perfection" heresy is certainly your own golden calf.

This world of subjection to Christ and to His Father is no paradise.
It is, however, the only way to paradise.

You're acting as though you were already in paradise with your pompous rhetoric, even though Jesus told Pilate, "my kingdom is NOT of this world."

You also can't see the way to escape it.

Jesus is not an escape:

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. (Jn. 17:15)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
My death already occurred, (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24), before I was reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

See above.

No, you're not dead until you return to dust, Gen. 3:19. You're bastardizing the Scripture by spiritualizing it.

As it is the children of the "flesh" that you cite as persecutors, from whom are you born ?

Ps. 51:5.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I wouldn't have been squabbling with you on this forum if I were being part of this world.

Your POV is of the world, blaming it for your behavior.

I didn't ask you about rebirth, I asked you what's the need for that.

Didn't you read my answer ?

If nobody is born a sinner, nobody needs to be reborn in spirit,

Unfortunately, pure babies turn into sinners as they age.

the solution for sin would be a return to the "pristine" infant state which, according to you, is totally sinless.

Well said, as rebirth provides that infantile purity !

Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath.

If those are a sin to a baby, can you provide the law they should know they are breaking ?

Sins don't have life, sinners do. You're unaware of sin if you prefer darkness over light, Jn. 3:19-21.

Then sins do not live !

Then as I said, you're full of yourself, you don't care about anybody else, having nobody's interest and feelings in your heart.

I care enough about you to get you to finally see that sin does not live.

Idk, ask yourself what's your own golden calf which you worship as an idol and defend with all your being. So far the "sinless perfection" heresy is certainly your own golden calf.

Jesus did say the truth would make us free from serving sin, in John 8:32-34.
John did say those reborn of God's seed cannot commit sin, in 1 John 3:9.
Peter did say that we are to have the same mind as Christ so we can cease from sin, in 1 Peter 4:1.
Paul did say that those immersed into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, have been freed from sin, in Romans 6:7
What is the idol that keeps you from understanding those words ?

You're acting as though you were already in paradise

I wish...

with your pompous rhetoric, even though Jesus told Pilate, "my kingdom is NOT of this world."

See ? His earthly kingdom isn't yet here.
But it is here in my heart !

Jesus is not an escape:
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. (Jn. 17:15)

If not an escape from the sin and wickedness of this world, then an ability to live without being stained by it.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, you're not dead until you return to dust, Gen. 3:19. You're bastardizing the Scripture by spiritualizing it.

I believe what the scriptures say about my death before I was reborn.

Ps. 51:5.

Thanks to Jesus Christ, that man can be crucified with Christ and raised with Him to walk in newness of life !
That new life is without sin.

 

[JLB]

Well, instead of assuming what I meant by "Atonement," you might have asked me what I meant. If you had, the above would have been unnecessary.

I want everyone involved to understand that atonement, which is used broadly by many in the Church today, s not a New Testament principle.

 

[JLB]

Scripture, please.

“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” Luke 16:19-31



And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:43

 

[Hopeful 2]

I want everyone involved to understand that atonement, which is used broadly by many in the Church today, s not a New Testament principle.

I disagree...
It is written..."And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." (Rom 5:11)
Jesus' atonement for sin is a basic of Christianity.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Your POV is of the world, blaming it for your behavior.

I don't play any blame game.

Didn't you read my answer ?

Yes I did, you didn't answer.

Unfortunately, pure babies turn into sinners as they age.

No baby is "pure". No one "turns" into a sinner, the sinner that's already in them manifests as they age.

Well said, as rebirth provides that infantile purity !

There is no infantile purity, there's your own fantasy. "Infantile purity" is not even scientific as infants inherit mother's microbiome from the birth canal.

If those are a sin to a baby, can you provide the law they should know they are breaking ?

Evil comes from the heart.

Then sins do not live !

Yet they subsist and remain until Christ returns.

I care enough about you to get you to finally see that sin does not live.

No you don't. That's your own sin of pride.

Jesus did say the truth would make us free from serving sin, in John 8:32-34.
John did say those reborn of God's seed cannot commit sin, in 1 John 3:9.
Peter did say that we are to have the same mind as Christ so we can cease from sin, in 1 Peter 4:1.
Paul did say that those immersed into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, have been freed from sin, in Romans 6:7
What is the idol that keeps you from understanding those words ?

Ask yourself first, what idol is preventing you from understanding these below?

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. (Rom. 3:9)
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal. 4:28-29)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:8-9)

I wish...

No, you fantasize and fabricate.

See ? His earthly kingdom isn't yet here.
But it is here in my heart !

You wouldn't have been acting like the prideful Pharisee if his kingdom were in your heart. You have no humility.

If not an escape from the sin and wickedness of this world, then an ability to live without being stained by it.
Thanks be to God !

Nonetheless you erroneously sought Jesus as an escape, which is contrary to his own expectation in his prayer.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I believe what the scriptures say about my death before I was reborn.

No you don't. If you do you wouldn't have spiritualized it.

Thanks to Jesus Christ, that man can be crucified with Christ and raised with Him to walk in newness of life !
That new life is without sin.

I ask you again, what idol is preventing you from understanding "EVEN SO IT IS NOW" in Gal. 4:28-29? Why is "he who was born according to the flesh" still there?

 

[JLB]

I disagree...
It is written..."And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." (Rom 5:11)
Jesus' atonement for sin is a basic of Christianity.

The word there in that verse means reconciliation.

The blood of Jesus doesn’t atone (cover) for our sins it cleanses or takes away our sin.