Bible Study Every Man's Battle: The Way to Win.

[Hopeful 2]

I don't play any blame game.

Yes I did, you didn't answer.

No baby is "pure". No one "turns" into a sinner, the sinner that's already in them manifests as they age.

There is no infantile purity, there's your own fantasy. "Infantile purity" is not even scientific as infants inherit mother's microbiome from the birth canal.

Evil comes from the heart.

Yet they subsist and remain until Christ returns.

No you don't. That's your own sin of pride.

Ask yourself first, what idol is preventing you from understanding these below?

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. (Rom. 3:9)
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal. 4:28-29)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:8-9)

No, you fantasize and fabricate.

You wouldn't have been acting like the prideful Pharisee if his kingdom were in your heart. You have no humility.

Nonetheless you erroneously sought Jesus as an escape, which is contrary to his own expectation in his prayer.

We disagree on so much, that further conversation is unlikely to produce a consensus.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No you don't. If you do you wouldn't have spiritualized it.

What's to spiritualize ?
it was real !

I ask you again, what idol is preventing you from understanding "EVEN SO IT IS NOW" in Gal. 4:28-29?

No idol can prevent anything, as idols have no power.
As the scripture says, those of the flesh will keep on persecuting those born of the Spirit.

Why is "he who was born according to the flesh" still there?

Those born of the flesh are still here, because they won't repent of sin permanently, and do what is necessary to be born of the Spirit.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What's to spiritualize ?
it was real !

Subjectively real only to you, or objectively real to God?

No idol can prevent anything, as idols have no power.
As the scripture says, those of the flesh will keep on persecuting those born of the Spirit.

No, that means your old fleshly self is it perpetual conflict with your new spiritual self. It's not about others who're "of the flesh". That's your own victimhood mentality.

Those born of the flesh are still here, because they won't repent of sin permanently, and do what is necessary to be born of the Spirit.

It's not "THEY", there's no "they" in that passage, it's only you. Your own flesh which is still living, breathing and kicking.

 

[JLB]

I disagree...
It is written..."And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." (Rom 5:11)
Jesus' atonement for sin is a basic of Christianity.

If you don’t see any difference between the blood of Jesus and the blood of bulls and goats then have it your way.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11

Atonement is not found in the New Testament in the New King James.

It is only used once in the King James, whereas reconciliation is a better fit.

Reconciliation is better because of the contextual flow of the text.

Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Romans 5:9-11


My point is to make people aware of the difference between the blood of Jesus and the blood of bulls and goats.


For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4




JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Subjectively real only to you, or objectively real to God?

What do you mean by 'subjectively' ?
It was a real death, burial, and resurrection, that I was water baptized into, thereby taking part in each.

No, that means your old fleshly self is it perpetual conflict with your new spiritual self. It's not about others who're "of the flesh". That's your own victimhood mentality.

My old fleshly oriented self was destroyed at my "immersion" into Christ's death.
Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

It's not "THEY", there's no "they" in that passage, it's only you. Your own flesh which is still living, breathing and kicking.

The newborn vessel-new creature is no longer mine.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

That life is available to everyone who will turn from sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you don’t see any difference between the blood of Jesus and the blood of bulls and goats then have it your way.

I see the one presaging the other.
Patterns of the old, fulfilled by the new.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11

My KJV of the bible says atonement.

Atonement is not found in the New Testament in the New King James.

It is in earlier writings.

It is only used once in the King James, whereas reconciliation is a better fit.

Does it make you wonder at all, why God had men write "atonement" for 800 years ?

Reconciliation is better because of the contextual flow of the text.

Unfortunately it robs you of awareness of the fulfillment of OT presages being fulfilled.

Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Romans 5:9-11
My point is to make people aware of the difference between the blood of Jesus and the blood of bulls and goats.

Didn't they accomplish the same thing ?
Payment for sin ?

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

But the atoning blood of Christ can take away sin !

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What do you mean by 'subjectively' ?
It was a real death, burial, and resurrection, that I was water baptized into, thereby taking part in each.

False, death only is only referring to mortal death, 1 Cor. 15:36

Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.

My old fleshly oriented self was destroyed at my "immersion" into Christ's death.
Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Which part of "EVEN SO IT IS NOW" don't you understand? If it were destroyed, why are you still breathing and posting? Don't you know that your earthly body is the temple of the holy spirit? You're preaching gnosticism.

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Cor. 6:19)

The newborn vessel-new creature is no longer mine.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

"Crucified with Christ" is a figure of speech, mortal body is cherished, not destroyed.

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. (Eph. 5:29)

That life is available to everyone who will turn from sin.

You've never turned from your sin of pride.

 

[Hopeful 2]

False, death only is only referring to mortal death, 1 Cor. 15:36

If it is not a real death with Christ, (Rom 6:3,5), there is also no destruction of the old man, (Rom 6:6), or joining with Christ at His resurrection to walk in newness of life ! (Rom 6:4)
The results of that would have been a continued walk in darkness-"flesh". (1 John 1:6)

Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.

The death we endure with Christ is real.
Paul writes..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
My sins were opened beforehand; and my judgement was death.

Which part of "EVEN SO IT IS NOW" don't you understand? If it were destroyed, why are you still breathing and posting? Don't you know that your earthly body is the temple of the holy spirit? You're preaching gnosticism.

Are you admitting to persecuting me ? (Gal 4:29)
The vessel I am contained in now is not mine anymore, but Jesus Christ's.
Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Cor. 6:19)

See ?
Don't you realize the miracle that must occur for our "temple" to be worthy of the Spirit's residency ?

"Crucified with Christ" is a figure of speech, mortal body is cherished, not destroyed.

Our opinions differ on that.
I thank God almighty for the crucifixion I endured with Jesus, so my old man could be killed and raised with His as a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. (Eph. 5:29)

Isn't that the truth !
But that statement's context is far from what we are discussing.

You've never turned from your sin of pride.

If any of the things the Lord has done for me were my doing, I would do the same thing for you.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If it is not a real death with Christ, (Rom 6:3,5), there is also no destruction of the old man, (Rom 6:6), or joining with Christ at His resurrection to walk in newness of life ! (Rom 6:4)
The results of that would have been a continued walk in darkness-"flesh". (1 John 1:6)

If it is a real death, you'd be dead in the grave.

The death we endure with Christ is real.
Paul writes..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
My sins were opened beforehand; and my judgement was death.

No, your judgement WILL be death - for your sin of pride.

Are you admitting to persecuting me ? (Gal 4:29)
The vessel I am contained in now is not mine anymore, but Jesus Christ's.
Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

Again, victimhood mentality, blaming the world for your own problem. Nobody's persecuting you but your old man.

See ?
Don't you realize the miracle that must occur for our "temple" to be worthy of the Spirit's residency ?

Really? Hasn't that "temple" been destroyed, crucified with Christ, as you said?

Our opinions differ on that.
I thank God almighty for the crucifixion I endured with Jesus, so my old man could be killed and raised with His as a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

Absolutely false. First of all, a believer in Christ presents himself as a living sacrifice and dies "daily", it's not a one and done deal; second, the rise as a new creature is the resurrection, which happens only at the second coming of the Lord with the sounding of the last trumpet, not anytime before that.

I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Cor. 15:31)
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1)

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-53)

Isn't that the truth !
But that statement's context is far from what we are discussing.

No it's not. We ain't discussing anything. I'm talking about mortal death, you're talking about imaginary death.

If any of the things the Lord has done for me were my doing, I would do the same thing for you.

What things? Your instilled delusion? Narcissism? Incorrigibility?

 

[Hopeful 2]

If it is a real death, you'd be dead in the grave.

I was, Jesus' grave. (Rom 6:4)
But I was also raised with Him to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), quickened by the Holy Spirit ! (Rom 8:11)

No, your judgement WILL be death - for your sin of pride.

It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
Have your sins been opened yet, or are going to follow after ?

Again, victimhood mentality, blaming the world for your own problem. Nobody's persecuting you but your old man.

You could have just said "no".

Really? Hasn't that "temple" been destroyed, crucified with Christ, as you said?

My body was not fit to be temple for the Spirit before the old man was crucified with Christ. (Gal 5:24)
The body I have now, since my resurrection with Christ, is fit for His usage.

Absolutely false.

Again we disagree.

First of all, a believer in Christ presents himself as a living sacrifice and dies "daily",

I do agree with that.

it's not a one and done deal;

The death in question doesn't fit Paul's 1 Cor 15 context.

second, the rise as a new creature is the resurrection, which happens only at the second coming of the Lord with the sounding of the last trumpet, not anytime before that.

We again disagree.
The new creature is raised with Christ at its resurrection from Christ's grave, during water baptism. (Rom 6:4-5)

I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Cor. 15:31)
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1)

Is Paul telling us to do the impossible ?
I think not.
So do it !
Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1) !

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-53)

Thank God for that !

No it's not.

So are you implying that Paul lied when he wrote..."For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. (Eph. 5:29)"

We ain't discussing anything.

?

I'm talking about mortal death, you're talking about imaginary death.

Got faith ?

What things? Your instilled delusion? Narcissism? Incorrigibility?

Jesus said we would know the truth and it would make us free, in John 8:32.
He then told us what the truth could free us from in verse 34...committing sin.
I wanted that good conscience before God more that anything, and it was given to me.
It is still available to all who are still servants of sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I was, Jesus' grave. (Rom 6:4)
But I was also raised with Him to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), quickened by the Holy Spirit ! (Rom 8:11)

Then you're misquoting the Scripture and contradicting yourself. Spirit doesn't walk in newness of life, it is the same body that walks in the newness of life, following the Holy Spirit. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, it's not dead.

It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
Have your sins been opened yet, or are going to follow after ?

It is written, the wages of sin is death, Rom. 6:23. God's judgement only comes upon mortal death.

You could have just said "no".

You could've just accepted the message in Gal. 4.

My body was not fit to be temple for the Spirit before the old man was crucified with Christ. (Gal 5:24)
The body I have now, since my resurrection with Christ, is fit for His usage.

His usage for what? Preaching the heresy of sinless perfection, among others? Are you really led by the Holy Spirit - or your own ego?

I do agree with that.

No you don't, as long as you insist that you're dead already.

The death in question doesn't fit Paul's 1 Cor 15 context.

But it does fit its literal meaning - the end of a MORTAL life, instead of your own perception. You said you were buried and raised with Jesus, but Jesus was literally dead, buried and resurrected, you're not.

We again disagree.
The new creature is raised with Christ at its resurrection from Christ's grave, during water baptism. (Rom 6:4-5)

Then you disagree with Scriptural message on resurrection.

Is Paul telling us to do the impossible ?
I think not.
So do it !
Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1) !

You first. Show me how you present your body as a LIVING sacrifice when, according to your own words, you're dead already.

Thank God for that !

Or how about listen to God on that first, and accept it as a prophecy that's yet to be fulfilled?

So are you implying that Paul lied when he wrote..."For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. (Eph. 5:29)"

No, you're spiritualizing the Scripture.

Got faith ?

Yes, but not delusion.

Jesus said we would know the truth and it would make us free, in John 8:32.
He then told us what the truth could free us from in verse 34...committing sin.
I wanted that good conscience before God more that anything, and it was given to me.
It is still available to all who are still servants of sin.

Whose "truth", yours or God's?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then you're misquoting the Scripture and contradicting yourself.

Not at all.

Spirit doesn't walk in newness of life, it is the same body that walks in the newness of life, following the Holy Spirit.

The new creature, reborn of God's seed, walks in and after the Spirit.
The now dead old man walked in and after the "flesh".

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, it's not dead.

The new creature is alive, but the old man was crucified with Christ. (Gal 5:24)

It is written, the wages of sin is death, Rom. 6:23. God's judgement only comes upon mortal death.

Right, so my old man is now dead.

You could've just accepted the message in Gal. 4.

There are a lot of lessons in Gal 4.
Which one are you citing ?

His usage for what? Preaching the heresy of sinless perfection, among others? Are you really led by the Holy Spirit - or your own ego?

By Jesus' death and resurrection, and His willingness for us to partake in it, I have been equipt to preach the truth that Jesus said would make us free from committing sin.
My old "ego" died with the old man.

No you don't, as long as you insist that you're dead already.

It is written..."If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col 3:1-3)
Aren't you risen with Christ ?

But it does fit its literal meaning - the end of a MORTAL life, instead of your own perception.

Do you really think Paul died everyday ?

You said you were buried and raised with Jesus, but Jesus was literally dead, buried and resurrected, you're not.

I was indeed killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
Where is your faith ?

Then you disagree with Scriptural message on resurrection.

I disagree with any interpretation of scripture concerning rebirth that doesn't include the resulting marvels of it.

You first. Show me how you present your body as a LIVING sacrifice when, according to your own words, you're dead already.

Simple, with the new vessel, I also received the divine nature.
That has allowed me to find the escapes from temptation God promised us in 1 Cor 10:13.
Life without sin is the means of my presenting God with a living sacrifice.
Praise be to God !

And you ?
How do you present your body as a living sacrifice to God ?

Or how about listen to God on that first, and accept it as a prophecy that's yet to be fulfilled?

Which prophesy might that be ?

No, you're spiritualizing the Scripture.

Jesus did say that His words are Spirit and they are life.
I can testify to that.

Yes, but not delusion.

As long as it keeps me free from sin, I am good with it.

Whose "truth", yours or God's?

THE truth that set me free from committing sin ! (John 8:32-34)
That truth is out here for you too.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Not at all.

You are in denial.

The new creature, reborn of God's seed, walks in and after the Spirit.
The now dead old man walked in and after the "flesh".

The flesh is still flesh. You quoted it yourself, "no one hates his own flesh, but cherishes and nourishes it."

The new creature is alive, but the old man was crucified with Christ. (Gal 5:24)

Right, so my old man is now dead.

Then why is the old man still persecuting the new creature?

But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal. 4:29)

There are a lot of lessons in Gal 4.
Which one are you citing ?

The only one, see above.

By Jesus' death and resurrection, and His willingness for us to partake in it, I have been equipt to preach the truth that Jesus said would make us free from committing sin.
My old "ego" died with the old man.

No it didn't, you're driven by your ego to defend your delusions and heresies. You're talking to yourself and asking yourself questions.

It is written..."If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col 3:1-3)
Aren't you risen with Christ ?

Not yet, "risen with Christ" is prophesied in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 with the shout of an archangel and the trumpet of God.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Do you really think Paul died everyday ?

I really think Paul offered "reasonable service" everyday.

I was indeed killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
Where is your faith ?

My faith is in future resurrection, but till my last breath, I'm still in this "earthly tent" and groaning, according to the Scripture.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.(2 Cor. 5:1-5)

I disagree with any interpretation of scripture concerning rebirth that doesn't include the resulting marvels of it.

While I disagree with any interpretation that spiritualizes the text to make it compatible with man made doctrines.

Simple, with the new vessel, I also received the divine nature.
That has allowed me to find the escapes from temptation God promised us in 1 Cor 10:13.
Life without sin is the means of my presenting God with a living sacrifice.
Praise be to God !

And you ?
How do you present your body as a living sacrifice to God ?

With "reasonable service", following Paul's example.

Which prophesy might that be ?

1 Thess. 4:16-17, along with 1 Cor. 15:51-52.

Jesus did say that His words are Spirit and they are life.
I can testify to that.

Which words?

As long as it keeps me free from sin, I am good with it.

THE truth that set me free from committing sin ! (John 8:32-34)
That truth is out here for you too.

Then why are you still exuberating with sin of pride? That "truth" is your cognitive disonance.