[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[BenjaminTC]

A few points:

Most importantly, abiogenesis (life arising from non-life) is NOT a part of the theory of evolution. Abiogenesis answers: "Where did life come from?" evolution does not answer this question.

I don't know if abiogenesis occured or not, but here's some striking evidence in favor of abiogenesis. Saturn's moon Titan has an atmosphere much like that of pre-life earth. It is rich in hydrocarbon molecules. When hydrogen cyanide mixes with nitrogen, it forms amino acids. There is also another compound on Titan that forms amino acids when mixed with water, but I forget which compound that is. Now, this is not speculation or hypothesising, it is fact. So here is a varifiable truth at the center of abiogenesis.

Second point: The question young earth creationists keep asking is "With what did the first organism capable of sexual reproduction mate?" The answer is easy. Many organisms, even today have the ability to reproduce both sexualy and asexualy. The sexual gene was passed on to a new generation, it became a part of the gene pool and became a succesful method of reproduction.

Third point: Where did the laws come from? We made them! We made them to describe nature. Nature is the constant, we have to figure it out.

 

[Quath]

If so were did the platapus get its instincts to burrow holes like rabbits. When scientist in england saw thier first stuffed platapus they thought it was a joke, a combination of animals stuck together. Shows how much science knows....

A scientist would say it evolved it just like the rabbit learned to burrow. Instincts are coded behavior derived from our DNA.

Remember, science is not saying it knows everything. It has just shown so far that everything can have a natural explanation without the need for magic or miracles.

Quath

 

[bob]

The platypus seems to be a strong cross between a reptile and a mammal.

If so were did the platapus get its instincts to burrow holes like rabbits. When scientist in england saw thier first stuffed platapus they thought it was a joke, a combination of animals stuck together. Shows how much science knows....

Do you have a date for this discovery? At one time there was speculation that maggots spontaneously formed on rotting meat. Through scientific experimentation, that was proven false. At least when science discovers that it's previous held theories are incorrect, it admits that and holds the new discovery out for all to see. What does religion do when it discovers it was wrong? Ohhhh, that's right, it never is wrong.

 

[goliwog man]

LoL Gods the one thats never wrong.
He sends us the emails every day
its Just that many cant read :D either that or cant use a computer :D LOL

Its our interpritations that may go astray just like a scientists common sense theries may go astray. The fact is we know very little compared to God.

 

[Guest]

people. Like,before people could evolve,there should be examples left of
what they were just before they became human.
There should have been evidence of creatures in transition.
There is nothing,not even a hint that humans evolved.

Ummmm. If you are truly interested, you can look at human fossils going back 6 or 7 millions years ago. Here is a website with important human fossils: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html So you can see humanity in transition if you really want to.

Quath

:B-fly: Quath, Fossils do not support evolution!
How many times do I have to show you that?
I don't have blind faith. I didn't become a christian
who believes the way I do because someone just
told me that I needed to. I believe in evidence.

 

[Guest]

The platypus seems to be a strong cross between a reptile and a mammal.

If so were did the platapus get its instincts to burrow holes like rabbits. When scientist in england saw thier first stuffed platapus they thought it was a joke, a combination of animals stuck together. Shows how much science knows....

Do you have a date for this discovery? At one time there was speculation that maggots spontaneously formed on rotting meat. Through scientific experimentation, that was proven false. At least when science discovers that it's previous held theories are incorrect, it admits that and holds the new discovery out for all to see. What does religion do when it discovers it was wrong? Ohhhh, that's right, it never is wrong.

:roll: Religion is wrong. Religion means "going back to Babylon".
God is not ever wrong,but religion often is.

 

[Guest]

If so were did the platapus get its instincts to burrow holes like rabbits. When scientist in england saw thier first stuffed platapus they thought it was a joke, a combination of animals stuck together. Shows how much science knows....

A scientist would say it evolved it just like the rabbit learned to burrow. Instincts are coded behavior derived from our DNA.

Remember, science is not saying it knows everything. It has just shown so far that everything can have a natural explanation without the need for magic or miracles.

Quath

:roll: What Magic?
Miracles are what we all are. Life is a miracle to me. I appreciate life,and
thats most likely how I realized God must be real.
When you are lost and worldly,the appreciation for life is much less.
When greed sets in,life is valued much less,and people begin to love
themselves more and more and love other people less and less.
The love of money is at the root of all evil. It doesn't take much evidence
to prove this.
Greed increases the longer a person remains in it.
Greediness is an epidemic today just like V.D.
The Bible is right about everything,even if you haven't discovered it
yet.

 

[Asimov]

:B-fly: Quath, Fossils do not support evolution!
How many times do I have to show you that?
I don't have blind faith. I didn't become a christian
who believes the way I do because someone just
told me that I needed to. I believe in evidence.

Blue, you don't show anything, you make baseless assertions without providing evidence. We provide evidnece, you hand wave it, and stick your head in the sand.

 

[Guest]

:B-fly: Quath, Fossils do not support evolution!
How many times do I have to show you that?
I don't have blind faith. I didn't become a christian
who believes the way I do because someone just
told me that I needed to. I believe in evidence.

Blue, you don't show anything, you make baseless assertions without providing evidence. We provide evidnece, you hand wave it, and stick your head in the sand.

:B-fly: Ha,ha,ha,ha,hee,hee,hee,he
What a fabulous laugh!
You are wrong again,but it's still funny.
Thats exactly what you do,and you accuse me of it. Cute,real cute!
By the way,I have been at evc,so I have had these silly arguments
before many,many times.

 

[goliwog man]

To me believing that God created the earth is allot easier to believe than...

A long time ago there was an explosion and from the helium plants started to grow And then a dinosaur layed an egg and out popped a chicken. And then dinosaurs decided they wanted to fly so they sprouted wings and became birds. Then the monkeys got in on the act and evolved, (this could become a reality T/V show) Then A buitiful princess kissed the frog and he turned into a hansome prince. Ooops that was a fairy tale now wasnt it???

 

[goliwog man]

Blue, you don't show anything, you make baseless assertions without providing evidence. We provide evidnece, you hand wave it, and stick your head in the sand.

Try this out for size...

Lets say we want to make a house. First we need the materials now a house isnt going to just fall together all by itself. You can chuck those bricks in the air as much as u like but u aint gonna produce no house. There has to be a plan and someone has to build it things just dont fall together. try it with legos put em in a bucket and fling em in the air I garantee u they wont fall into a house. Now the earth is allot more complicated then a house someone had to make it.

 

[Quath]

A better analogy is tryin to create a snowflake. If you looked at one, it would seemed to be carved by tiny faries. Yet, we know that complex stuff can occur from simple rules.

Quath

 

[Asimov]

Try this out for size...

Lets say we want to make a house. First we need the materials now a house isnt going to just fall together all by itself. You can chuck those bricks in the air as much as u like but u aint gonna produce no house. There has to be a plan and someone has to build it things just dont fall together. try it with legos put em in a bucket and fling em in the air I garantee u they wont fall into a house. Now the earth is allot more complicated then a house someone had to make it.

goliwog...fallaciously representing evolution shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Evolution is not random chance. It's chance and natural selection. Natural selection is what drives evolution.

 

[Asimov]

:B-fly: Ha,ha,ha,ha,hee,hee,hee,he
What a fabulous laugh!
You are wrong again,but it's still funny.
Thats exactly what you do,and you accuse me of it. Cute,real cute!
By the way,I have been at evc,so I have had these silly arguments
before many,many times.

Once again, you prove my point. You make baseless assertions, and hand wave it away. Instead of calling them "silly arguments" and giggle like an idiot, why don't you show us how I am wrong. Mind boggle me with your obviously higher intelligence and knowledge of the "false" theory of evolution

 

[goliwog man]

Evolution is not random chance. It's chance and natural selection. Natural selection is what drives evolution.

How do u know what evolved were you there? Of coarse the idea that God created earth is just to bazzar and out there :roll: If you studied chance youd find out that The cance of God creating the world is far more likely then the aspects of evelution being real.

Read this little piece I want to see what you have to say about it.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/005 ... Store=True

 

[Wertbag]

Try this out for size...
Lets say we want to make a house. First we need the materials now a house isnt going to just fall together all by itself. You can chuck those bricks in the air as much as u like but u aint gonna produce no house. There has to be a plan and someone has to build it things just dont fall together. try it with legos put em in a bucket and fling em in the air I garantee u they wont fall into a house. Now the earth is allot more complicated then a house someone had to make it.

Doesn't work for several reasons, first its comparing natural objects to non-natural (earth to house, human to plane, animal to car etc), these things must be built because they cannot occur but that by itself doesn't mean that therefore everything must be the same. It also ignores growth, we are talking about natural things that grow or form, we are not talking about all human organs fully grown lying in a heap and being chucked together until they work, we all know we grow from a single cell into a full size adult, obviously this process is not random, and obviously this process is quite different to housing and non-natural objects.

How do u know what evolved were you there?

How do you know God created, were you there? Gotta think from both sides of the debate...

Read this little piece I want to see what you have to say about it.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/005 ... Store=True

I never thought I'd see a chick tract used... sure they are a good laugh but nothing more than that. This particular story is about a completely insane teacher who doesn't know the subject he is teaching.
Its not really a good debating technique to just throw web links out, theres just too much to answer quickly, and it doesn't actually show any thought going into the query. If you want to discuss the whole tract you might want to start a new thread, if you have specific points from it you want answers to then break it down into a set of questions.

 

[Asimov]

How do u know what evolved were you there?

I personally wasn't there, but the Earth leaves amazing details as to our past which support evolution, such as the fossil record. That coupled with genetics gives us a really good idea.

Of coarse the idea that God created earth is just to bazzar and out there

I never once stated that God and evolution are mutually exclusive. Not only do you misrepresent evolution, but you misrepresent me.

If you studied chance youd find out that The cance of God creating the world is far more likely then the aspects of evelution being real.

If you knew anything about evolution, you would also know that you can't really assign probability to past events, as they have already happened. evolution is real, we observe it, test it, and it makes predictions.

Read this little piece I want to see what you have to say about it.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/005 ... Store=True

I'm amazed that you would use a comic strip! as an argument. It builds up a strawman of evolution, then gloriously knocks it down amid cries of "praise Jesus!" and "down with the Godless heathens". Come on...

 

[goliwog man]

I never once stated that God and evolution are mutually exclusive. Not only do you misrepresent evolution, but you misrepresent me.

I never ment to target you personally sorry if it appeared that way. I was trying to point out bias. An evelutionist will be looking for something to support evelution but a christian loos to support God. They never stop to think about the other side of the coin.

I used the chick trac beacuse it introduced a bias opinion from the other side of the coin. (and does it in a humerous way)

but the Earth leaves amazing details as to our past which support evolution,

God came into my life what more evidence do I need?

 

[Asimov]

An evelutionist will be looking for something to support evelution but a christian loos to support God. They never stop to think about the other side of the coin.

But evolution doesn't look to discredit Christianity...so there shouldn't be a conflict.

I used the chick trac beacuse it introduced a bias opinion from the other side of the coin. (and does it in a humerous way)

All opinions are bias, Evolution is not an opinion.

God came into my life what more evidence do I need?

If you think you don't need evidence, and it all doesn't matter to you, then why misrepresent evolution in order to try and make your belief stronger?

 

[Guest]

Once again, you prove my point. You make baseless assertions, and hand wave it away. Instead of calling them "silly arguments" and giggle like an idiot, why don't you show us how I am wrong. Mind boggle me with your obviously higher intelligence and knowledge of the "false" theory of evolution[/quote]

:B-fly: actually as many people know,it takes no inteligence to show
that evolution is wrong. Can you prove evolution?
Can you show us evolution? Your god evolution is never seen,but many
of us have seen Jesus Christ,and we have many more witnesses than
you have.
You believe in evolution,your god,and you get angry when others don't
accept your off the wall idea's.
Go to a spirit filled christian meeting and you'll see evidence of God.
especially if they lay hands on you,but go out in your front yard and
try to prove evolution and you have nothing!
No one has ever seen your god evolution,and if someone wants to
write a book claiming they have,they should at least show those who
read their book how they can see it too.
That would be the kind thing to do.
proving evolution is false only takes common sense.
why don't you go out and try out all the experiments you have heard
about and see if they work?