[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[Guest]

But evolution doesn't look to discredit Christianity...so there shouldn't be a conflict.

All opinions are bias, Evolution is not an opinion.

If you think you don't need evidence, and it all doesn't matter to you, then why misrepresent evolution in order to try and make your belief stronger?[/quote]

:B-fly: Of course evolution doesn't look to dis-credit christianity,it was
always a part of many religions and it still is to this very day!
Evolution is an opinion and an ancient part of paganism and false
religion.
Why are you fighting over the god you say you believe in when you
cannot even see him or her,or it?
Why don't you need proof it exists or not?

 

[Guest]

[quote="goliwog man":5ba84]How do u know what evolved were you there?

I personally wasn't there, but the Earth leaves amazing details as to our past which support evolution, such as the fossil record. That coupled with genetics gives us a really good idea.

Of coarse the idea that God created earth is just to bazzar and out there

[/quote:5ba84]
If you knew anything about evolution, you would also know that you can't really assign probability to past events, as they have already happened. evolution is real, we observe it, test it, and it makes predictions.

:B-fly: Prove that evolution happened and that its true!
prove what you say. Show a neihbor or a friend in your house or
front yard,send us pictures while you are at it!
Just like I know satan is behind all the visions of Mary,he is also
behind every lie of evolution just to get atheists in the one world
global religion.
But evolution cannot be seen or tested and for sure not observed!
fossils and DNA only support that God created everyone and every
thing !!!
You have shown us that you have not thought this through at all,and you
sure have not researched it,amen.
Isn't it the truth that you would much rather have someone beat you to
a pulp than to have to accept that there is a "Holy" God?

 

[Guest]

I never thought I'd see a chick tract used... sure they are a good laugh but nothing more than that. This particular story is about a completely insane teacher who doesn't know the subject he is teaching.
Its not really a good debating technique to just throw web links out, theres just too much to answer quickly, and it doesn't actually show any thought going into the query. If you want to discuss the whole tract you might want to start a new thread, if you have specific points from it you want answers to then break it down into a set of questions.

:B-fly: Who are you to call another person insane just because they
don't accept fairytales such as the ones you believe in?
How dare you judge this man like that!
Lets look at what you believe in,shall we? Darwin was a sane teacher?
Apes turning into humans.
stars blew and flew in the sky.
food and people evolving at the same time.
natural selection even though there is no order in random chance.
no laboratory experiments have made life from non-life,yet still
believes in the fables told by man.
no human fossils or any human links to prove or support tales.
all the fossils that exist today cannot and do not support evolution
at all. The Heavens have different layers,and the planets could be
various ages,but no man can tell how old they are or the stars with
a space suit on,and because people float in the Heavens above the sky
we see,no dating method can be used. But this sure does remind us
of what they tried to do in the times of the tower of Babel.

 

[Wertbag]

Who are you to call another person insane just because they
don't accept fairytales such as the ones you believe in?

Did you even read my message? I didn't call Chick insane, I didn't call any creationist insane, all I said was the evolutionist from the cartoon was insane. Read the cartoon, what teacher in any school screams at their students? With the sweat flying from his face as he bunches his fists, yelling that he'll have the student locked away... that is not the sign of a sane rational educator. He hands in his notice at the end of the cartoon, probably only to avoid being fired.

Speaking of fairytales you find it hard to believe in science cos it doesn't make sense to you yet are quite happy to believe in 900 year old people, people calling fire from the sky, healing by touch, walking on water, talking animals etc etc. There are many more things that defy logic in religion that in science.

But this sure does remind us
of what they tried to do in the times of the tower of Babel.

They built a huge tower on a flat plain and during the first lightning storm it got struck. Because the supersitious people didn't understand lightning they attributed it to God. There are often easy non-supernatural answers to the questions raised by ancient people, why does the sun rise? What shape is the earth? how do plants grow? Our knowledge has greatly increased, and what used to look like miracles are now understood.

 

[Guest]

Who are you to call another person insane just because they
don't accept fairytales such as the ones you believe in?

Did you even read my message? I didn't call Chick insane, I didn't call any creationist insane, all I said was the evolutionist from the cartoon was insane. Read the cartoon, what teacher in any school screams at their students? With the sweat flying from his face as he bunches his fists, yelling that he'll have the student locked away... that is not the sign of a sane rational educator. He hands in his notice at the end of the cartoon, probably only to avoid being fired.

Speaking of fairytales you find it hard to believe in science cos it doesn't make sense to you yet are quite happy to believe in 900 year old people, people calling fire from the sky, healing by touch, walking on water, talking animals etc etc. There are many more things that defy logic in religion that in science.

:B-fly: I am sorry ,but it seemed to me that you wre not being very
polite,while at the same time expecting others to understand your ideas.
Evolution has not been proven,and there are no witnesses of it,and no one
can show it to anyone.
Yes,I believe the life span was much longer,and if you knew medicine
you'd know by the way our bodies were made,that they were made
with the purpose to live long lives,even forever. Look at the genius
behind how we are made! Highly intelligent mind involved in it!
Lightning is from God. God knew that lights would be invented. He gave
man the intellect to discover it,but in the times of Babel when that
tower was built,they wanted to reach the Heavens and their intentions
were evil,not good. Miracles are not understood without God.
Intelligence has increased but so has evil.we cannot explain everything
with science. I am not against science at all. I love christian scientists.
Archaeologists,and all fields that help us learn about the world,and most
if not all match the Holy Bible,amen.
If you don't believe in God,thats one thing,but to believe you are an
atheist and also believe in evolution makes no sense to me.
You are trading your views for another view,and that view is man made.
Why can't you just claim to be an atheist without having to believe in
science thats pro-evolution and man? Somethings really up with that,
in my honest opinion. Why would you have to follow the crowd,any
crowd,or any views made by man? If you believe there is no God,or
gods as some say,then why believe in what any man says at all?
This kind of contradicts your atheist claims. 8-)

 

[Asimov]

actually as many people know,it takes no inteligence to show
that evolution is wrong. Can you prove evolution?
Can you show us evolution? Your god evolution is never seen,but many
of us have seen Jesus Christ,and we have many more witnesses than
you have.
You believe in evolution,your god,and you get angry when others don't
accept your off the wall idea's.
Go to a spirit filled christian meeting and you'll see evidence of God.
especially if they lay hands on you,but go out in your front yard and
try to prove evolution and you have nothing!
No one has ever seen your god evolution,and if someone wants to
write a book claiming they have,they should at least show those who
read their book how they can see it too.
That would be the kind thing to do.
proving evolution is false only takes common sense.
why don't you go out and try out all the experiments you have heard
about and see if they work?

Whoa now blue...first off, don't make any assertions as to what I believe, that's extremely offensive, and as I've already told you, evolution is not a religion. It's science, science accepted by not only scientists of no religion, but scientists of any and all religions, Christianity included.

Second, don't go trying to switch the burden of proof on me. You said it was easy to disprove evolution, but so far all you say is "it's easy to disprove...yadda yadda". Instead of sitting there and acting like a silly girl, why don't you amaze us with your intelligence and disprove evolution.

Of course evolution doesn't look to dis-credit christianity,it was
always a part of many religions and it still is to this very day!
Evolution is an opinion and an ancient part of paganism and false
religion.
Why are you fighting over the god you say you believe in when you
cannot even see him or her,or it?
Why don't you need proof it exists or not?

It's not a part of any religion, it's science. People of many religions accept it, because it's a strongly supported theory and a fact. It's not part of paganism, and false religion. It has nothing to do with religion. Once again, making claims that evolution is my god is offensive, and rather idiotic of you to say. Not only is it offensive to me, but to the majority of Christians who do accept evolutionary theory. You are insulting Christianity with your ignorance and assertions

Just like I know satan is behind all the visions of Mary,he is also
behind every lie of evolution just to get atheists in the one world
global religion.

blue, you contradict yourself. You say that evolution is atheism, yet you then go to say that evolution is religion, and evolution is a god. Atheists don't beleive in any gods. Get your misrepresentations straight.

You're conspiracy theories and your claims that evolution is false is laughable at best, and sad at worst. You couldn't disprove evolution if you tried, and you know you can't, which is why you don't accept any of my challenges. Once again, don't shift the burden of proof on me, I queried you to disprove evolution, so far I've seen nothing but slack-jawed mumbling

Who are you to call another person insane just because they
don't accept fairytales such as the ones you believe in?
How dare you judge this man like that!

Judging?? coming from someone who insults Christians and Atheists alike by claiming evolution is their religion?? And you talk about judging?? I'm amazed by your hypocracy

Apes turning into humans.

Apes didn't turn into you humans, get evolution straight before you claim it's false

stars blew and flew in the sky.

darwin didn't teach this. Big Bang didn't come around until the 1900's...you can't even misrepresent Darwin properly...

food and people evolving at the same time.

what??? It took me awhile to recover from the shock of this obviously stupid assertion. What do you mean, food and people???

natural selection even though there is no order in random chance.

Natural Selection isn't random chance...

no laboratory experiments have made life from non-life,yet still
believes in the fables told by man.

This is abiogenesis, not evolutionary theory, and darwin didn't teach this. No wonder you don't accept evolution, you don't even know what it is!

 

[Guest]

It took me awhile to recover from the shock of this obviously stupid assertion. What do you mean, food and people???[/b]

natural selection even though there is no order in random chance.

Natural Selection isn't random chance...

no laboratory experiments have made life from non-life,yet still
believes in the fables told by man.

This is abiogenesis, not evolutionary theory, and darwin didn't teach this. No wonder you don't accept evolution, you don't even know what it is![/quote]

:B-fly: When you get tired of slandering true christians,let me know!
If you think having a fit proves you are correct,and that I am wrong
prove it. The burden of proof is on you because this is a christian forum
and you started up with me.
Many religions claim evolution,and I don't believe in none of them.
You may believe in it,yet your blind faith is further proof that you are
in an occult. It takes faith to believe what you cannot see or prove!!!
You cannot keep changing the basic ideas behind evolution like that
when most of us know what they claim.
you are into an occult and you know it. Just admit it.
Why don't you try to impress me with some intelligence for once?

 

[Guest]

[
Whoa now blue...first off, don't make any assertions as to what I believe, that's extremely offensive, and as I've already told you, evolution is not a religion. It's science, science accepted by not only scientists of no religion, but scientists of any and all religions, Christianity included.

:B-fly: You can lie and say what you wish But you cannot force
your false religious view on others. If you think you can,you don't
know some of us very well at all,do you?
When did I ever say pagans were true christians? If someone wants to
call themselves a christian then that is up to them,because I hope they
will be one day. What is that to you,and why do you want to be where
the christians are?
I don't believe in your false religion,and if I can take the heat so can
you. You are not even original,and thats just like all of the individuals
I have met except for a rare few who believe like you do.
Face it,you cannot force everyone to believe like you do!

http://www.biblebelievers.com/powell2.html

 

[Guest]

Second, don't go trying to switch the burden of proof on me. You said it was easy to disprove evolution, but so far all you say is "it's easy to disprove...yadda yadda". Instead of sitting there and acting like a silly girl, why don't you amaze us with your intelligence and disprove evolution. [/b]

:Fade-color What are you,a sillier boy? or a sillier girl?
It is very easy to prove evolution does not exist just by
common sense. It is far easier to believe the bible than for
someone to say that something can come from absolutely nothing!!!
That is proof right here.
Life came from a creator,and a creator with such great intelligence
that the rest of us on earth look very ignorant to say the least.
who could possibly believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that human
DNA happened by chance when it not only has precision and great
design,but it contains untold amounts of information!!!
Trace you family tree. Thats right,study Genealogy for a while.
See how far back you can go with it.
You won't find any other species except human,and not only that
you will learn something about history while your are doing it.
We cannot see evolution but we can see bible prophecy being fulfilled
in our generation at a much faster speed,and Israel did become a nation
again just as the bible said it would,but some people said not to take
those scriptures literally!!! What happened,huh?
Did Israel become a nation again? Yes,it did!
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... nimals.asp

 

[BenjaminTC]

but a christian loos to support God. They never stop to think about the other side of the coin

.

Exactly. This is called ignorance.

I used the chick trac beacuse it introduced a bias opinion from the other side of the coin. (and does it in a humerous way)

That it does. Quite humorous.

God came into my life what more evidence do I need?

How about scientific evidence? If that is too big of a step, at least start with tangible evidence.

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'anWhy are you fighting over the god you say you believe in when you
cannot even see him or her,or it?
Why don't you need proof it exists or not?[/quote]

It's not a part of any religion, it's science. People of many religions accept it, because it's a strongly supported theory and a fact. It's not part of paganism, and false religion. It has nothing to do with religion. Once again, making claims that evolution is my god is offensive, and rather idiotic of you to say. Not only is it offensive to me, but to the majority of Christians who do accept evolutionary theory. You are insulting Christianity with your ignorance and assertions
:roll: :roll: :roll: ( statements made by The Tuatha'an)

When did I ever say that evolution was atheism? Many atheists
accept it,and they contradict themselves. Why do they have to believe
in evolution if they say they don't believe in the popular views of men?
What makes the atheist so different then?
There are some atheists out there who don't accept evolution at all.
They just know how to be honest with themselves alot better.
I don't insult God or his word,and I believe that those who do will be
severly punished for it,amen.

 

[Wertbag]

Evolution has not been proven,and there are no witnesses of it,and no one can show it to anyone.

Very easy to rewrite that quote as "Creation has not been proven, and there are no witnesses of it and no one can show it to anyone", change the word to heaven, hell, angels or God and it still works the same.

Yes,I believe the life span was much longer,and if you knew medicine you'd know by the way our bodies were made,that they were made with the purpose to live long lives,even forever.

The human body breaks down and wears out, we are not designed to live forever, in fact the only reason we live as long as we do is due to advances in housing, health, sanitation, medicine etc (none of which were available in ancient times). As you get older your joints start to sieze up, your body takes longer to recover, you get sick easier and your body shows the signs. The older you get the more frail you get.
The old remains we have of humans from hundreds or even thousands of years ago do not show great life spans, the further back we go the shorter the lives were (30-40 was quite a normal life expectancy 3000-4000 years ago). People living in similar conditions (eg african tribes) to ancient times have life expectancy of 40-50.
So the story of 900 year old people really goes against all the logical thoughts we would have about the ancient humans. Not only is it claimed that they lived that long but had children while aged into their hundreds, its just unbelieveable.

 

[Guest]

[quote="Wertbag As you get older your joints start to sieze up, your body takes longer to recover, you get sick easier and your body shows the signs. The older you get the more frail you get.
The old remains we have of humans from hundreds or even thousands of years ago do not show great life spans, the further back we go the shorter the lives were (30-40 was quite a normal life expectancy 3000-4000 years ago). People living in similar conditions (eg african tribes) to ancient times have life expectancy of 40-50.
So the story of 900 year old people really goes against all the logical thoughts we would have about the ancient humans. Not only is it claimed that they lived that long but had children while aged into their hundreds, its just unbelieveable.[/quote]

:B-fly: I said the way the body was made tells us it was meant to live
for a very long time,even forever,I didn't say what it does. I am saying
by the way it was made. Sin caused our bodies to age and die.
I believe the Bible accounts,and I have every reason to believe it.
Logical thought tells me that we had a creator,and that he is the most
Excellent creator to ever exist and that words cannnot express just
how great and wonderful our holy creator and God truly is,amen.
I believe and I know,that I know,that I know,amen.
Logic tells me that we were fearfully and wonderfully made,and logic tells
me that man could not have been created by chance. amen.

 

[Asimov]

It is very easy to prove evolution does not exist just by
common sense. It is far easier to believe the bible than for
someone to say that something can come from absolutely nothing!!!
That is proof right here.
Life came from a creator,and a creator with such great intelligence
that the rest of us on earth look very ignorant to say the least.
who could possibly believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that human
DNA happened by chance when it not only has precision and great
design,but it contains untold amounts of information!!!
Trace you family tree. Thats right,study Genealogy for a while.
See how far back you can go with it.
You won't find any other species except human,and not only that
you will learn something about history while your are doing it.
We cannot see evolution but we can see bible prophecy being fulfilled
in our generation at a much faster speed,and Israel did become a nation
again just as the bible said it would,but some people said not to take
those scriptures literally!!! What happened,huh?
Did Israel become a nation again? Yes,it did!
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... nimals.asp
[/b]

Once again, you misrepresent evolution and make baseless assertions. supposed fulfillment of biblical prophecy has nothing to do with evolution, you are shifting the goalposts.

Evolution has been observed in many instances, natural selection has been observed in many instances. The evidence is shown to you, and it's up to you to falsify it.

You say the burden of proof is on me to show you evidence that evolution is not true, just because I'm on this forum? Well, cubedbee is on this forum, he is a christian, and he knows evolution is true, he doesn't think the burden of proof is on me.

I requested you to provide evidence that evolution is false. I request one more time that you provide falsification that the evolutionary process does not happen.

 

[Asimov]

I said the way the body was made tells us it was meant to live
for a very long time,even forever,I didn't say what it does. I am saying
by the way it was made.

Show us exactly where it shows us that our bodies are meant to live for a long time, possibly forever.

Sin caused our bodies to age and die.

Show us where in the bible that it says that sin caused physical death and not a spiritual death

I believe the Bible accounts,and I have every reason to believe it.
Logical thought tells me that we had a creator,and that he is the most
Excellent creator to ever exist and that words cannnot express just
how great and wonderful our holy creator and God truly is,amen.
I believe and I know,that I know,that I know,amen.
Logic tells me that we were fearfully and wonderfully made,and logic tells
me that man could not have been created by chance. amen.

Once again, explain to me how Evolution goes against there being a god.

 

[Guest]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... nimals.asp[/url]
[/b]

I requested you to provide evidence that evolution is false. I request one more time that you provide falsification that the evolutionary process does not happen. [/quote]

:B-fly: I feel that I gave you more than enough proof,and you gave nothing but more meaningless words.,plus you try to throw CubedB
in this. What? You cannot handle your own battle? CubedB trusts in
God and his view of Evolution is between him and God.
I am happy that he is a believer in God.
You do not claim the faith in God,and you say you believe in evolution.
To me thats shocking because you say you are free thinkers.
I believe in the Rapture,but perhaps Cubed doesn't?
Should there be an argument between us about who is right and who
is wrong?
I am friends with many christians who are evolutionists and who believe
in the rapture differently,some don't believe in a rapture at all,but to me
thats not as serious as claiming no belief in God.
We all have different views on things,but you cannot use evolution to
prove that there is no God. Many christians will disagree with that.

 

[Sophistress]

Blueeyliner, you have not given any evidence disproving evolution whatsoever. All I've seen you do is say that evolution is nonsense, post a few links to some websites and go on about how great God is, blah, blah, blah. You've even been so ridiculous as to say that evolution is a religion with its own gods just because pagans mentioned something mildly similar. Erm, have a look at these:

-Christians and most Pagans eventually celebrated the birthday of their godman on DEC-25.

-According to an ancient Christian tradition, Christ died on MAR-23 and resurrected on MAR-25. These dates agree precisely with the death and resurrection of Attis.

-Baptism was a principal ritual; it washed away a person's sins. In some rituals, Baptism was performed by sprinkling holy water on the believer; in others, the person was totally immersed.

-The most important sacrament was a ritual meal of bread and wine which symbolize the godman's body and blood. His followers were criticized of engaging in cannibalism.

-Early Christians initiated converts in March and April by baptism. Mithraism initiated their new members at this time as well.

-Early Christians were naked when they were baptized. After immersion, they then put on white clothing and a crown. They carried a candle and walked in a procession to a basilica . Followers of Mithra were also baptized naked, put on white clothing and a crown, and walked in a procession to the temple. However, they carried torches.

-At Pentecost, the followers of Jesus were recorded as speaking in tongues. At Trophonius and Delos, the Pagan priestesses appeared to speak in such a way that each person present heard her words in the observer's own language.

-An inscription to Mithras reads: "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." 1 In John 6:53-54, Jesus is said to have repeated this theme: "...Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV)

-The Bible records that Jesus was crucified between two thieves. One went to heaven and the other to hell. In the Mithras mysteries, a common image showed Mithras flanked by two torchbearers, one on either side. One held a torch pointed upwards, the other downwards. This symbolized ascent to heaven or descent to hell.

-In Attis, a bull was slaughtered while on a perforated platform. The animal's blood flowed down over an initiate who stood in a pit under the platform. The believer was then considered to have been "born again." Poor people could only afford a sheep, and so were literally washed in the blood of the lamb. This practice was interpreted symbolically by Christians.

-There were many additional points of similarity between Mithraism and Christianity. 2 St. Augustine even declared that the priests of Mithraism worshiped the same God as he did:

-Followers of both religions celebrated a ritual meal involving bread. It was called a missa in Latin or mass in English.

-Both the Catholic church and Mithraism had a total of seven sacraments.

-Epiphany, JAN-6, was originally the festival in which the followers of Mithra celebrated the visit of the Magi to their newborn godman. The Christian Church took it over in the 9th century.

 

[Asimov]

I feel that I gave you more than enough proof,and you gave nothing but more meaningless words.,plus you try to throw CubedB
in this. What? You cannot handle your own battle? CubedB trusts in
God and his view of Evolution is between him and God.

I bring CubedB into it, because he's proof that evolution and Christianity aren't mutually exclusive. Evolution is not a religion, no matter what nonsense you say about it's "pagan" roots.

I asked you to provide evidence that evolutionary theory is false, you provided nothing. You lose.

 

[Guest]

I feel that I gave you more than enough proof,and you gave nothing but more meaningless words.,plus you try to throw CubedB
in this. What? You cannot handle your own battle? CubedB trusts in
God and his view of Evolution is between him and God.

I bring CubedB into it, because he's proof that evolution and Christianity aren't mutually exclusive. Evolution is not a religion, no matter what nonsense you say about it's "pagan" roots.

I asked you to provide evidence that evolutionary theory is false, you provided nothing. You lose.

:B-fly: What did I lose? A free monkey ancestor that I didn't want,
and am not related to anyway?
I did prove evolution is false,but you cannot accept it.
Besides,I am not even worried about evolution.
Evolution is something everyone feels differently about and we
cannot hate people for being different than we are.
The point I am trying to make is that,you cannot use evolution
and atheism together like you do to build your worldy train of thought
when christians also believe in it. Evolution is not even a real excuse
to argue with christians when many accept it,and those of us who don't
accept it,know it's here to stay for a good long while until Jesus returns
back to the earth to set up his Kingdom.
Why not just say you are worldly and that you love to sin and you
want to keep doing evil against God,and stop saying that evolution
is the problem christians have with you,when clearly it's not.

 

[Sophistress]

Now she admits there are Christian evolutionists. My, that did take us a while to convince her! Good job The Tuatha'an! She cleary has no understanding of evolution, which was summed up in her statement "A free monkey ancestor that I didn't want" which nearly made me split my sides. These silly fundies - will they ever get it? I'm doubtful. :D