Ex-christian turned to witchcraft - ask me anything

[unknown1991-old]

That is not what I asked.
Is Christianity true?
Is Jesus the only way to God, to have a life in heaven, do non Christians face an eternity separated from God?

I will answer your question if you answer mine.

Yes to both of your questions.

I've struggled with this the past year. In my anger toward God, and even many times telling him to eff off with a middle finger extended toward Him, after my mom died the only reason I felt bad for her was because I thought maybe she didn't accept God's grace when she was in hospice, and the fact that God would torment her, a human being, with eternal fire and torment, I had a really hard time dealing with that. Frankly I told Him that I think God is narcissistic and so full of Himself that He makes everything about Him. Accept Him and you will live, someone who supposedly loves us so much, but reject Him, and He will torment you with fire forever and ever. Have you ever seen a stick close to molten lava, and the lava is so hot it just instantly bursts into flames? Have you ever put your hand on a red hot stove?

If someone who supposedly loves us so much would torment us, I think it's extremely vindictive of God to do that to people. I'm not talking about Satan and his fallen angels. They saw the face of God and walked with Him. I'm talking about human beings. I really struggled with this the last year, and I thought how cruel that He would do that. Why not just let people sleep for eternity if He wants to burn them, so at least they will never suffer. Or let them just sit alone in darkness forever and ever? I've lived alone for 25 years in solitude, and I know how painful solitude can be. That would be enough.

But no. God can't stand anyone having anything apart from him. "there is no peace, says my God, for the wicked". I think God is a narcissistic douchebag that can't stand it when we have *anything* good apart from Him. He's the one that's full of Himself. If He loves us, why would he be so cruel?

I couldn't stand the thought of my mother -- even though I witnessed to her when I saw her the last time in the hospital in the hospice wing, in fact I *pleaded* with her to accept God's grace -- and I know it was her choice to accept it or not. But knowing my mom for almost five decades, she was a terrible parent and I hated her, I would never wish torment upon her. And I really thought how cruel God was. I mean, God created the universe, He is in control, *He* alone chooses to make it that way. He doesn't have to, but He chooses to be that vindictive and cruel that he would do that to people. I've known people that would never ever harm another person, let alone burn them forever and ever. I'm sorry, but that's just freaking cruel and vindictive, and those people that never knew God but are actually good people, I think they are better than God.

But to answer your question. The only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus gave a parable about those that try to get to heaven by any other way is a thief and a robber.

I still think He's cruel.

Now answer my question, if you're actually serious about talking with me.

7 years ago, when I went up to give my heart to God a second time, and He finally changed my heart. I loved God and felt His love. Turning to witchcraft, even though I was so tempted to find a coven even then, I found these thoughts flooding my head so distressing and unthinkable then. Now 7 years later, I do this so easily, and I find I've switched to the complete opposite. I find it so hard (and my heart so dead) to staying with God, but so easy to turn to the craft. Why is this? I asked Him at work the other day when in the bathroom, why do I find it so hard to stay with you, but so easy to turn back to the craft? Of course His goodness hasn't ceased in my life even though I don't hear His voice any more.

Jesus said "I will never leave you or forsake you". He promises to never leave us. So if He never leaves us and we can't do anything without Him, why do I find it so hard to turn to Him when it was the complete polar opposite 7 years ago? Answer me this.

 

[unknown1991-old]

And I will add, I got tired of God not answering prayer. Letting me suffer through hurt (unjustified by the way!) from other people and bringing no relief to it, depspite repeated prayer about the situations. Even asking for His grace to cover it and to soften the hearts of others. But as soon as I cast a spell, my prayer is answered and I actually have a solution to my problems. I'm not helpless any more but can actually *do* something about it.

Sorry, but knowing that everyone that ever hurt me will *one day* be accountable to God in the judgement wont help me in the here and now. It doesn't bring relief to my circumstances *now*. So now you can see why, despite that I feel like any real connection to *something* feels empty, I know the Universe hears me and answers me.

Answer that if you can. How do you like having a god that is jealous, but says it's not okay for *you* to be jealous? It's okay for Him to be like that, but not you? Doesn't seem hypocrytical to you?

 

[unknown1991-old]

He once told me "your feelings *do* matter", but then I found that it's really all about him. A christian friend once told me, "it's not about you". God not answering my prayers, I found that my feelings don't really matter. It's all about Him after all. I got really sick of that, and sick of suffering hurt and Him not answering prayer and not bringing relief to my circumstances. So it's really His way or the highway, and it showed *me* that my feelings really don't matter. It's all about Him after all.... that's when I began to say eff Him. He loves me and says my feelings matter, but oh, it's really about Him after all. So my feelings, in light to His, actually don't matter. That's when my heart started to turn away.

And you know I speak the truth. I want to know if you can actually answer to this, beyond the generic "god loves you". yeah, Jesus Himself admitted, you will *remain* in God's love if you do His will. So as long as we do what He wants and is pleasing to Him, He loves us.

yeah right.... I thought He was supposed to love us unconditionally? Seems very conditional to me. Can you understand my anger and disgust now? It's the same exact *love* I got from my family. Be what we expect, and we will accept and love you. That's not real love.

 

[unknown1991-old]

At my second to last church, when I first started going there, one of the assistant pastors approached me and said (and I've never forgotten it) that "the only reason God gave you a second chance was because of His good name". That was when I gave my heart to God a second time 7 years ago. I felt like, so the only reason God gave me a second chance was to save face and protect His "good name" in the face of a rather large church (as in, He didn't want to appear bad to others at this church in any way). I found that comment very hurtful, and I felt like a piece of crap after he said that to me.

So again, it's all about Him and His 'good name'. He cares more about His good name then He does about other people. It's about Him and His will that's really important, we don't really matter. That's how I really felt at the time. It made me feel unimportant.

 

[GodsGrace]

I wasn't trolling, at least that wasn't my intention, but I was feeling provocative. I was angry at how I was treated, and angry toward god for many years. Many of the things I brought up here, I brought up to an old pastor, and they couldn't provide any answers, except the generic "god loves you", blah blah.

I hate christianity, but hate no one. More like, I hate the *expectations*, "dress this way" and you are godly, blah blah, but got hurt so much in the church. Which ultimately is what turned me away.

I was feeling provocative the other night (not saying you guys aren't good people), and I guess I felt like venting, and there was a little bit of me that was reaching out...

Edit: and I will add, because my old church wouldn't engage me, I was daring any christian to engage me. I was hoping some would. In the end, I felt like pushing boundaries, but wasn't trying to troll, if that makes sense.

Maybe Christianity should be more legalistic?
Did you try the CC church or the Orthodox church?
Maybe those would suit your needs better.

Do you believe in an afterlife?

 

[GodsGrace]

At my second to last church, when I first started going there, one of the assistant pastors approached me and said (and I've never forgotten it) that "the only reason God gave you a second chance was because of His good name". That was when I gave my heart to God a second time 7 years ago. I felt like, so the only reason God gave me a second chance was to save face and protect His "good name" in the face of a rather large church (as in, He didn't want to appear bad to others at this church in any way). I found that comment very hurtful, and I felt like a piece of crap after he said that to me.

So again, it's all about Him and His 'good name'. He cares more about His good name then He does about other people. It's about Him and His will that's really important, we don't really matter. That's how I really felt at the time. It made me feel unimportant.

Wow.
You listen to humans too much.
Don't you have your own belief system?

 

[GodsGrace]

He once told me "your feelings *do* matter", but then I found that it's really all about him. A christian friend once told me, "it's not about you". God not answering my prayers, I found that my feelings don't really matter. It's all about Him after all. I got really sick of that, and sick of suffering hurt and Him not answering prayer and not bringing relief to my circumstances. So it's really His way or the highway, and it showed *me* that my feelings really don't matter. It's all about Him after all.... that's when I began to say eff Him. He loves me and says my feelings matter, but oh, it's really about Him after all. So my feelings, in light to His, actually don't matter. That's when my heart started to turn away.

And you know I speak the truth. I want to know if you can actually answer to this, beyond the generic "god loves you". yeah, Jesus Himself admitted, you will *remain* in God's love if you do His will. So as long as we do what He wants and is pleasing to Him, He loves us.

yeah right.... I thought He was supposed to love us unconditionally? Seems very conditional to me. Can you understand my anger and disgust now? It's the same exact *love* I got from my family. Be what we expect, and we will accept and love you. That's not real love.

There's no such animal as unconditional love.
Have you read the NT?
Did you notice all the conditions?

I think you've never read the NT or you should read it again. All by yourself.

 

[Who Me]

why do I find it so hard to turn to Him when it was the complete polar opposite 7 years ago? Answer me this.

I don't pretend to have all the answers or to know all about how God works.

I would ask about just what are you putting your trust/faith in?

You are trying to mix ' the craft ' witchcraft, which is forbidden to Christians with serving God.

Jesus said, " we cannot serve two masters!"

As Joshua said, " Choose who you will serve."

 

[unknown1991-old]

I don't pretend to have all the answers or to know all about how God works.

I would ask about just what are you putting your trust/faith in?

You are trying to mix ' the craft ' witchcraft, which is forbidden to Christians with serving God.

Jesus said, " we cannot serve two masters!"

As Joshua said, " Choose who you will serve."

I am choosing, in time. That's the only answer I have. I need time. I know He allows us to be tested. And I finally got fed up and allowed myself to get angry at Him.

No one has been able to answer my one question, yet you came closest. By saying you don't pretend to have all the answers, you're being honest with me, as I have been in. Instead of just giving me jargon or saying I listen to people too much (I thought christians were supposed to be ambassadors of Christ, huh?). Even if you can't answer my question, I respect your honesty.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I got tired of the hypocrisy I saw in the church. People who had their hands up loving on god, but not loving others. Ignoring them and treating them like dung. I saw this in church after church.

1 John 4:20 says that if you claim to love god but hate others, you are a liar. When I brought up this fact to my ex-pastor, he had no answer, but tried to sluff me off to another church.

I got tired of unanswered prayers, yet, when I turned to the craft, my prayers are answered and quickly. I'm heard and accepted, unlike in the church where I was told I had to cut my hair and start wearing a suit to church. Not that the heart of the person matters, but somehow "looking" godly somehow makes you more godly.

I got so disgusted with the church that I left. I was someone who loved god at one time, but got tired of seeing people that say one thing but do another, and unanswered prayer.

Talk to me, I'm eager to hear from you. That is if you actually care.

Hello unknown1991.
It sounds like you got fed up with sinners, so you abandoned God. Thank Jesus he didn't do that.

He went to "church" and the "pastors" had him crucified. And you thiught you had a bad experience!

 

[for_his_glory]

unknown1991 you have way to much anger against God to even allow Him or anyone else to help you. What I'm about to say here is not to hurt you, but hopefully to help you. Here we are on page four of trying to help you, but your anger is blinding you from the truth.

1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

God never promised us a life without trials and tribulations as many of us have been through hell and back, but never lost our faith in God knowing that there is a reason for everything that we may never know that reason, but to strength us as we are more then conquerors through Christ Jesus. Jesus is the greatest example of trials and tribulations that came to Him, but yet He remained in God's will and purpose that all who will believe in Him will have eternal life with Him. John 3:16-17, Hebrews 12:3-17.

God's greatest commandment is love as God is love full of mercy and grace given to all that will turn back to Him as we are all sinners needing a Savior that is Christ Jesus, Romans 10:9-10. The commands of God are to live a moral life here on earth loving Him and His Son Christ Jesus and to love our neighbors helping those in need.

I will use Esau for an example as God did not hate Esau, but sore displeased with him in his deception of selling his birthright, Genesis 25. God said He also created evil and this is what fell upon Esau as we read in Malachi 1:2-5.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty, Deuteronomy 27:11-26.

Exodus Chapter 7-11 is a witness of the "Great I AM" and what God brought forth in His affliction, calamity, distress and misery on Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptians a chance to repent and turn back to Him, like He does for everyone, but they rejected God as like Pharaoh hardened his heart against God like so many even today do this.

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

God is sore displeased with us when we go after worldly things, just like your craft and casting spells to hurt others in which God has told us to stay away from as it's nothing more than the devils playground and in judgement you will not inherit the kingdom of God, but will be judged by Him and cast into the lake of fire in the end of days, 1Samuel 15:23; Galatians 5:19-21; Rev 21:8.

It's your anger at God that is keeping you running away from Him and seeking those who you think are paying you attention and accepting you, but are leading you to your own destruction in the end. How many of us have prayed, but yet never heard from God as sometimes His answers are no as He knows best for us. We all have a past, but the greatest thing is when we ask for forgiveness and stay on that straight and narrow path, God not only forgives our sins, but remembers our past anymore as we are a new creation in Christ and live our lives pleaseing to him.

I don't need to tell you these things as you already know them. There is only two reasons people come to Christian forums being they are truly seeking God and fellowship with others, or they are just trolling to get a rise from others for their own jollies. I pray you are here seeking and not trolling.

 

[unknown1991-old]

for_his_glory; I came in here prideful and looking to, I wont say pick a fight, but felt provocative. I was expressing my anger, and in a way, expressing my rebellion. Like, this is me, deal with it, accept me or not. I read your post, and thanks. I'm not here to fight or to troll. I don't want to do that.

My one question was, it was last Saturday I think, I woke up and Jesus was immediately on my mind. I felt so much peace, and I repented of my witchcraft. Just that day at work, I felt like, and asked God in the bathroom, why does it feel so hard to stay with you, but so easy to turn away? It wasn't like that 7 years ago, it was the complete opposite, it was so easy to stay with Him and so hard to turn away. I didn't want to turn away. I did let anger at Him creep into my heart, but it happened over several years.

I will just say though I said it, when people have hurt me, walked all over me, I felt helpless. With the craft I felt powerful and could do something about it, like I didn't have to take it any more.

Thanks for your kindness. I work full time in the medical field and am in college for nursing. I went through some 100 hours of training before I could take one of my tests to get certified at work. It was hard and grueling. I kind of think in the same way, going back to God will be hard and grueling?

I mean, He says He will never leave us or forsake us. And I know it's impossible to even come to God if He doesn't first draw you. Jesus said, I'm the vine and you are the branches. Apart from me you can do nothing, and it is SO TRUE.

I've felt like, then why does it feel so hard to come back to Him? I think maybe you answered my question, my anger toward Him.

I don't know what else to say. My heart is hard. I recognize it. I almost don't care (I say *almost*). I wonder if it will be a grueling uphill battle to stay with Him this time? I find it very hard to let go of the craft to be honest.

Maybe me coming here was my way of attacking those that hurt me in the church by proxy. I mean, directing my anger toward other christians because of those that hurt me. You and others here did nothing to me. I don't know why I came here to be honest. But I don't want to fight or to troll.

How do I go from here when I feel inside so much my heart says NO? When it used to say YES to God. How do I turn this around? How do I let go of this path I have chosen and go back to Him when I find it so hard to do so? Seriously asking.

And don't think I don't talk to God and pray, because I still do every day, even though it's almost always in my head. I haven't shut Him out completely. But I felt so drawn by witchcraft for so many years, and I got to this point now that was literally incomprehensible to me just several years ago. And now I'm finding it so hard to turn away from it. If God never leaves us or forsakes us, then why do I find it so hard to turn back to Him with all my heart?

 

[unknown1991-old]

I've told you I know the truth. God changed my heart 7 years ago, and I can see others who have had real changed hearts from God. That's why I'm surprised I got to this point. But it happened slowly over many years, not right away. Repositioning the goal posts little by little. A little compromise here and there, slowly. I know the situation I'm in, yet mostly don't care now. I *am* concerned about that. It's more about my eternal life than caring about what God wants. Do you think I'm stupid and don't know the truth?

That's what I find so frustrating about God. It's all about His timing and how He chooses to work. HE chooses us, we don't choose Him, and it's always on His time. It's been out of trying to save my own skin. Unlike 7 years ago, I didn't want to sin not because of my fear of hell fire, but because I didn't want to hurt Him. Now I know the predicament I'm in. And I feel like I can't turn back.

Now I'm saying eff Him, but still know the truth. But find it hard to turn away now....

Edit: And I wasn't going to say this, because I don't want to argue with anyone. But God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh wanted to let the Israelites go, but God hardened his heart so show His power.

Exodus 9:16: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth".

God hardened his heart, and pharaoh died because of God's will. Ezekiel 31:17. And also Ezekiel 32:31: "Pharaoh -- he and all his army -- will see them and he will be consoled for all his hordes that were killed by the sword, declares the Sovereign Lord". Read Ezekiel. You don't think that's cruel that God would intervene and directly harden Pharaoh's heart, just to prove a point? And torment them forever and ever, even though Pharaoh actually wanted to let them go?

I find stuff like this hard to stomach. A supposed "loving God" that would do that to people.

Maybe I'm just repeating myself. But I have a hard time with things like that. God's will, like with Judas Iscariot, to be used for His will, but suffer eternal torment. I think that's cruel, sorry.

 

[Anaphora]

Respectively speaking. You weren't repenting sins to God and you had fellowship with spirtualty dead church. I'm not judging you or criticizing anyone. Haggia 1:2. Thus speaks the Lord of hosts, saying, This people say, The time is not come, the time that the Lord house shall be built.
1:4 is it time for you, O , ye to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?. Friend, Beth Aven means house of emptiness, because traditions of men and false doctrine are taught thier. Bethel is house of God, were sound doctrine is taught and fellowship of Christian people.
Those who go to Beth Aven, God will not hear thier prayers. Thier listening to doctrine of the devil. God hates false teachings.
1:5. Now therefore thus says the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways. Those playing church wont repent and listen to traditions of men and false doctrine. Of course Jesus won't answer thier prayers. Thier spirtualty bankrupt and polluted. Get the picture.
Psalm chapter 127:1. Except the Lord build the house, They labour in Vain that build it.
127:2. It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, To eat bread of sorrow. God won't bless and protect those who engage in churches who promote false doctrine. Some of the fake Christian people going to church is outward appearance, they use churches as smoke screen. They don't have the holy spirit.
I once knew girl in 1997. I dated her for period of time, and ended the relationship. In 2004, she left message on answering machine. It was vulgar and hatred for 5 minutes. Her voice changed to masculine voice. It's evident, she has a unclean spirit. Ever hear of demonic possession. What's the catch??. She goes to a catholic church.
Hosea chapter 6 warns Christian people dont go to Beth Aven !.

Repent, and study sound doctrine. Stay away from Beth Aven!.
Satan doesn't want Christian people to have salvation and relationships with God. The devil will lure and deceive people to get involved with the occult. The mediums are consulting evil spirits. Satan will answer thier questions. They are cut off from God. Messing with the occult is dangerous.
All sins are forgivable by repentance. Those who mess with occult, will go to sheol. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. It's a awful place. You don't want to go there.
Just repent and start studying sound doctrine. And stay away from hirelings who teach tradition of men and false doctrine. Peace.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory; I came in here prideful and looking to, I wont say pick a fight, but felt provocative. I was expressing my anger, and in a way, expressing my rebellion. Like, this is me, deal with it, accept me or not. I read your post, and thanks. I'm not here to fight or to troll. I don't want to do that.

My one question was, it was last Saturday I think, I woke up and Jesus was immediately on my mind. I felt so much peace, and I repented of my witchcraft. Just that day at work, I felt like, and asked God in the bathroom, why does it feel so hard to stay with you, but so easy to turn away? It wasn't like that 7 years ago, it was the complete opposite, it was so easy to stay with Him and so hard to turn away. I didn't want to turn away. I did let anger at Him creep into my heart, but it happened over several years.

I will just say though I said it, when people have hurt me, walked all over me, I felt helpless. With the craft I felt powerful and could do something about it, like I didn't have to take it any more.

Thanks for your kindness. I work full time in the medical field and am in college for nursing. I went through some 100 hours of training before I could take one of my tests to get certified at work. It was hard and grueling. I kind of think in the same way, going back to God will be hard and grueling?

I mean, He says He will never leave us or forsake us. And I know it's impossible to even come to God if He doesn't first draw you. Jesus said, I'm the vine and you are the branches. Apart from me you can do nothing, and it is SO TRUE.

I've felt like, then why does it feel so hard to come back to Him? I think maybe you answered my question, my anger toward Him.

I don't know what else to say. My heart is hard. I recognize it. I almost don't care (I say *almost*). I wonder if it will be a grueling uphill battle to stay with Him this time? I find it very hard to let go of the craft to be honest.

Maybe me coming here was my way of attacking those that hurt me in the church by proxy. I mean, directing my anger toward other christians because of those that hurt me. You and others here did nothing to me. I don't know why I came here to be honest. But I don't want to fight or to troll.

How do I go from here when I feel inside so much my heart says NO? When it used to say YES to God. How do I turn this around? How do I let go of this path I have chosen and go back to Him when I find it so hard to do so? Seriously asking.

And don't think I don't talk to God and pray, because I still do every day, even though it's almost always in my head. I haven't shut Him out completely. But I felt so drawn by witchcraft for so many years, and I got to this point now that was literally incomprehensible to me just several years ago. And now I'm finding it so hard to turn away from it. If God never leaves us or forsakes us, then why do I find it so hard to turn back to Him with all my heart?

I see in you a great struggle like a tug of war as you are being pulled in two directions just like I was many years ago when I walked away from God, but not completely as the convictions in my heart eventually led me back to Him as I established such a relationship with Him that I could never turn away from and believe me I have faced many trials and tribulations that would have torn a weaker one away from faith all together. Now my faith in Christ brings me through those trials and tribulations as He has made me more then a conquer as I am victorious in Christ and through my faith in Christ. Never lose total sight of Him as God will always be there just waiting for you to submit your whole heart to Him.

I know it's hard for you to turn away from this craft as you feel comfortable and accepted by these people as you have been hurt by others that call themselves a Christian, but by name only. It's hard to find a true church that teaches the doctrines of Christ as so many seem to teach another gospel and that is why I haven't found any in my area. I get more out of this Christian forum then I ever did by going to Church, although you have to Spiritually discern what others teach and make sure it lines up with scripture instead of them making scripture line up with what they say. I'm not saying do not go to church, but to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you to where you need to be for your Spiritual growth. Keep praying even if you think God is not hearing you or answering your prayers as only He has His reasons that not always seem fare as He knows best for us and keep reading your Bible.

I'm only a PM away if you ever want to talk in private

 

[Tenchi]

I got tired of the hypocrisy I saw in the church. People who had their hands up loving on god, but not loving others. Ignoring them and treating them like dung. I saw this in church after church.

Uh huh. It can be a disturbing thing to realize that the Church is filled with imperfect folks who are in a lifelong process of change, of growth, not all-perfected saints who've arrived spiritually, and that many who profess to be believers actually aren't. Just read the various letters of the New Testament and you'll see that even the very first converts to Christianity, witnesses often to the miraculous in ways long absent from the Church, were a collection of stumbling, contentious, ignorant and sin-plagued people. Paul's first letter to the Church at Corinth is probably the best example of this.

But, you know, it was for sinners - not saints - that Jesus died. His self-sacrificing love extended to his enemies, to those who hated him, not merely to those who ignored him. He went in among selfish, rebellious, wicked human beings and healed them, taught them, and finally died for them. He didn't predicate his treatment of us on our treatment of him; he doesn't love only those who love him; just the opposite, actually. Read 1 John 4:19. God's word calls everyone to love as he has loved, including you. (1 John 4:7-11)

God's word tells me that if I love Him, I'll inevitably love what He loves (Matthew 22:36-39; 1 John 3:14). And so, though I encounter the same sort of Church that you have, instead of it repelling me, it provokes me to "dig in" and work to make the Church better than it is. God's Spirit in me loves the Church and as the Spirit is in control of me throughout each day, his desires increasingly become mine which means, among other things, that however ugly and cold the Church may be, I work for its best, I love the Church.

I got tired of unanswered prayers, yet, when I turned to the craft, my prayers are answered and quickly. I'm heard and accepted, unlike in the church where I was told I had to cut my hair and start wearing a suit to church. Not that the heart of the person matters, but somehow "looking" godly somehow makes you more godly.

If there is one thing God is determined we should be free of it is self-centeredness. In fact, all sin is, at bottom, actually just an expression of selfishness. God made us to be His "vessels" through whom He might communicate Himself (2 Timothy 2:21). We foul our divinely-intended purpose when we refuse to be used by God in the self-sacrificing way He made us to do, and, instead, work to serve ourselves. Worse, selfishness leads always down into darkness and destruction. (Romans 6:23; Galatians 6:7-8; James 4:14-16)

The devil, knowing how contrary to God's will selfishness is and how naturally and eagerly we pursue selfishness, does all he can to encourage it in us. He "rewards" our pursuit of our own impulses and desires, laughing up his sleeve at those who take his rewards because he knows they've made "Esau's choice" and will suffer the consequences. He's even more delighted by those who openly take up demonic practices in pursuit of his "rewards," knowing that their self-centered, short-term thinking will bring them to eternal ruin and that their open alignment with him speaks to a degree of hardness of heart toward God that he can easily and powerfully manipulate.

God always answers our prayers. But very often, though, the answer is "No" because our requests are made in ignorance, or defiance, of God's "rules" governing prayer. For example, God will not hear the prayers of an unrepentantly wicked person (Psalm 66:18; Isaiah 59:2; 1 Peter 3:10-12) - except the prayer of repentance from, and confession of, their sin (1 John 1:9; James 4:6-10). He won't answer prayers for things that are asked from wrong motives and will be spent on useless, fleshly pleasures (James 4:3). He won't answer prayers that are contrary to His will (1 John 5:14). And so on.

I got so disgusted with the church that I left. I was someone who loved god at one time, but got tired of seeing people that say one thing but do another, and unanswered prayer.

I've discipled a fair number of guys over the years and one of the things I've noticed with new believers, in particular, is that, as they confront stuff in their own lives that God wants removed, and struggle do so, failing at times, they become increasingly critical of the Church, projecting their frustrations with themselves onto it. I've seen this happen so many times now I actually expect it with new believers.

No one is going to be able to say to God at the Final Judgment, "It's the fault of the Church that I'm a wicked person!" No, we all stand or fall before God on the basis of what we've done, or did not do. Our guilt is entirely our own - especially when God has offered to us His infinite power in the Person of the Holy Spirit by whom we can stand even if everyone else around is falling.

Talk to me, I'm eager to hear from you. That is if you actually care.

I do care. If not, I'd have made no reply to your unhappy post. You've heard from me. Is your eagerness still intact?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

It's more about my eternal life than caring about what God wants.

Caring about eternal life isn't possible without caring about what God wants.

Now this is eternal life - that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. Jn.17:3

God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

God hardened Pharaohs' heart by sending a nobody to him with a demand. Think about that.

 

[Vinny37]

I got tired of the hypocrisy I saw in the church. People who had their hands up loving on god, but not loving others. Ignoring them and treating them like dung. I saw this in church after church.

1 John 4:20 says that if you claim to love god but hate others, you are a liar. When I brought up this fact to my ex-pastor, he had no answer, but tried to sluff me off to another church.

I got tired of unanswered prayers, yet, when I turned to the craft, my prayers are answered and quickly. I'm heard and accepted, unlike in the church where I was told I had to cut my hair and start wearing a suit to church. Not that the heart of the person matters, but somehow "looking" godly somehow makes you more godly.

I got so disgusted with the church that I left. I was someone who loved god at one time, but got tired of seeing people that say one thing but do another, and unanswered prayer.

Talk to me, I'm eager to hear from you. That is if you actually care.

There is a God (Anthony Flew) made an excellent point that disliking nuclear scientists is no logical ground for rejecting E=MC2. Analogically, rejecting Christianity because of reasonable reasons for disliking Christians, is not logical: and is its founder to be tarred with the same brush of fallibility? In Galatians/Ephesians, I once searched out vices to avoid, and virtues to embrace: incidentally I listed 41 in each column: eg the first 10 negatives (hypocrisy; biting & devouring each other; sexual immorality; impurity; dissensions; debauchery; idolatry; witchcraft; hatred; discord), vs the first 10 positives (serving each other; loving your neighbour as yourself; living by the spirit; living a life of love; joy; peace; patience; kindness; goodness; faithfulness). What hit me was that Paul was addressing Christians. There is much we have to ‘put off’ and to ‘put on’. We all get hurt in the pot, but my mind affirms it to be the best pot. Just prior to seeing your thread, I was reading a poem by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, written while jailed and interrogated by the Nazi Gestapo: below his calm demeanour he was held together by the knowledge that he was a child of God by Christ.

1 Jhn.4:20 is hardly a hidden text, and IMO is fairly standard. Like with women being silent in church (compare Paul’s encouragement to them to prophesy in church), it’s a case of searching out the meaning below the English text read with C21 Western (?) lenses. And be aware that many of Paul’s colleagues were women (Rm.16), possibly including an apostle. Arguably John addressed a church where not all were Christians, and some fell below the norm of a general care for one another, showing themselves to be merely Churchians in need of an upgrade. James similarly was sad that some were, unlike nature, like springs of both fresh and salty output. Paul spoke of these conflicting natures, the old vs the new.

On Wicca, I’d suggest reading Witchcraft (Witchcraft: Exploring…Wicca), by Craig Hawkins. He examined its underlying philosophy, its subjectivism whose cash value undermines its face value. Former black witch queen, Doreen Irvin (From Witchcraft to Christ), noted how even white witches could give blacks a run for their money. There is also Revisiting The Challenging Counterfeit (Stave Hakes), a rewriting of a book by an ex-medium, Raphael Gasson. That the enemy produces psychic phenomena—answers to prayer, so to speak—does not mean that he gets no payback. Nor, incidentally, are all prayer requests, affirmed by God (so James), although if fitting Christ’s mission in line with the spirit (the tactical lord), such requests asked in true faith, will be answered (so John). But requests are not magic, nor should be taken as twisting God’s arm. He will, as C S Lewis put it, consider each request and grant some.

Incidentally, unlike Gasson, I do not think that the occult eternally damns anyone, and expect many witches, etc, to dwell with God eternally as redeemed & enlightened people—it’s just that they’ll have missed out a lot of revelation & joy this side of heaven, which is a shame when voluntarily foregone. But God gives all a choice for mortal occupation.

BTW, please don’t talk about “our god”—I find it so irksome and misleading. To the extent that we have “a god”, it is not God we have. Christianity is monotheistic, not polytheistic, although we may enjoy the ancient myths often cloaked in deity terms, and I love those of Egypt, Greece, and Norse. The Old Testament was polytheistic, but that was secondary education, awaiting messiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

Listen up people as unknown1991 does believe in God and is here for some help as she is going through a struggle right now and does not need to feel others coming against her. There are many violations of the ToS 1.1 going on and this needs to stop. We are to be here to edify and lift each other up in hopes of helping a member, not putting them down. Let's start acting like Christians and showing some love instead of criticizing as we show the same grace God gave to all of us.

 

[Tenchi]

I've struggled with this the past year. In my anger toward God, and even many times telling him to eff off with a middle finger extended toward Him, after my mom died the only reason I felt bad for her was because I thought maybe she didn't accept God's grace when she was in hospice, and the fact that God would torment her, a human being, with eternal fire and torment, I had a really hard time dealing with that.

Sinners always have a hard time dealing with God's attitude toward sin. They just can't see why God doesn't take a softer view of the sin they love, the sin with which they're totally comfortable, the sin in which they are steeped from birth. Why can't God recognize that sin isn't so bad - certainly not deserving of eternal hell? Why can't God comprehend that we understand our sin better than He does; why can't He get it that He's over-reacting to our wickedness? It doesn't occur to the sinner hardened into sin, blinded and deafened to the truth of its awfulness, that God isn't over-reacting but that he (or she), the hardened sinner, is extremely under-reacting to sin.

God's awesome, terrible punishment of sin, however, tells us something of just how horrific our sin really is. If God is perfectly holy and just, which I believe He is, then He has levied upon sin the perfect punishment, in so doing indicating to us that, whether we can see it or not, all our sin is vile and wretched in the extreme. Why? Because all sin defies the Creator-God of the Universe; because all sin darkens, hardens, deafens and blinds, causing destruction of various sorts in the world, and always, finally, death; because sin "tramples underfoot the Son of God, doing despite unto the Spirit of grace, counting the shed blood of Christ in atonement for sin an unholy thing"; because sin keeps us from our created purpose: fellowship with God (and one another).

Mostly, it seems to me that sin-absorbed folk rail at God's severity toward their sin because they have a shriveled, cramped, very human conception of God. As a result, they wonder why it's such a big deal when they rebel against His will. What right has such a small, petty tyrant to lord it over them? So long as God is just a super-powered human (or near-human), He can be treated with lightness and even disdain when He gets too "uppity" about sin.

But, God is not small; He is so far above and beyond us it's impossible to describe the difference; He is so awesome, so enormous in power and understanding, so perfect, that we will never fully comprehend Him. We are simply too tiny, too weak, too confined in our human frames to do so. A staggering, incomprehensible God, capable of creating and sustaining the entire universe, whose will and power are the stuff of reality is a scary God, a God who by His very nature deserves our deep respect, our reverence and worship, and our obedience. When we sin, it is against the Ground of All Reality, the Uncaused Cause of Everything, the Ultimate Source of Existence who is everywhere present, always having known all things, greater in power than all of the mind-blowing forces, churning and sweeping through the vast expanses of the universe, together. He commands our obedience and He is not small.

Frankly I told Him that I think God is narcissistic and so full of Himself that He makes everything about Him. Accept Him and you will live, someone who supposedly loves us so much, but reject Him, and He will torment you with fire forever and ever.

When an Olympic sprinter wins the 100-meter dash and does his victory lap, arms raised, smiling, basking in the roar of the crowd that has witnessed his victory, is he just being narcissistic? Of course not. He's earned the praise of the crowd, training for many years in order to run the sprint-course faster than all of the most elite sprinters of the entire world. He's sacrificed, and suffered, and strained for years in order to win and no one begrudges him his moment of glory when he does, the crowd cheering him loudly as he enjoys his victory. But all he's done, in the end, is run really fast in a straight line for just over nine seconds. God, in comparison, has brought an entire universe into being, filled with uncountable planets, stars of unspeakable size and power, black holes swallowing entire galaxies, supernovas, and empty tracts of space so large its difficult to comprehend their enormity. And He keeps it all going, moment by moment, solely by His will and power. He's also created the intricacies, beauty, order, balance and durability of the organisms and various organic and inorganic systems of our own world, sustaining it all. Is his handiwork not worthy of praise? His acts dwarf to insignificance all of the greatest deeds of humanity put together. No one and nothing comes anywhere close to matching His stunning works. But though we think nothing of applauding the Olympic sprinter whose feat in the grand scheme of things is utterly trivial, we balk at acknowledging the greatness of God's being and the wonder of His creative acts.

Inasmuch as the universe is entirely God's, created by Him and sustained at every moment by Him, what right have you to demand He let you carry on in it as you like? How, given that the universe continues to exist only by God's will and power, can the universe not be all about Him? There is no universe without God. There is no you without God.

As Creator, God has the unique prerogative to say how things will go in the universe He created and sustains. In love, mercy and grace, He invites us to enter into fellowship with Him eternally, but if we spurn His offer, defying His divine right to order things as He wishes in His universe, living as we prefer in contravention of His will, well, why is God obliged to let such a thing pass? The incredible arrogance, foolishness, and evil in demanding God let us do as we please with impunity, the staggering vanity in thinking God only properly loves us when He lets us do what we want without consequence always surprises me when I see it expressed. And it deserves, I think, the response God gives to it.

But no. God can't stand anyone having anything apart from him. "there is no peace, says my God, for the wicked". I think God is a narcissistic douchebag that can't stand it when we have *anything* good apart from Him. He's the one that's full of Himself. If He loves us, why would he be so cruel?

Only the most vain and arrogant sort of person would shake their fist in God's face and cry "Douchebag!" when He doesn't act just as they think He should. Rail against Him all you like; vent your dark heart upon Him; He will not yield in the slightest to you. You're in His universe and He calls the shots, no matter how little you like that He does. And one day, if you don't humble yourself under His mighty hand and repent of your deep pride and wickedness, you will find yourself occupying the hell you resent so much. God isn't ever going to shrink under your temper tantrums; He's the Ultimate Counter to the narcissist, you see, because He's truly the One around which all things revolve.