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SyntaxVorlon
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- #21
Wow. Where did you get all that from or do you produce drivel out of some esoteric orifice that I wasn't aware of in human physiology?blueeyeliner said:
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ThinkerMan
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- #22
In terms of the "evidence" of creationism versus evolution, let's take a quick took.
Creationism:
The evidence for this is mostly self-proclaimed. It is by the understood nature of the bible, by believers, that provides the most evidence for your theory. In a sense, because you believe in both God and his work (the bible), that is the foundation of your "evidence". All indications of nature pointing towards a difference set of ground rules must be dismissed because they violate the self-proclaimed perfectness of the creationist theory. Your evidence is your revelation and your faith. I can challenge neither. The reasoning is deductive from the Bible.
Evolution:
Evidence is based on observation, or better, many many observations. Through these observations, a best-case is made to understand why those occurances exist. That best case, today, is evolution.
Genetic Mutation, fossil records, changes in the environment of the earth. Those are the ground rules evolution uses to explain what happens. Yes, it is a theory, but it is derived inductively from the observations we can make. Most importantly, those observations can be repeated by anyone and at any time. If I went to Galapogos today, I would see the same specialization of bird beaks Darwin observed 150 years ago.
Creationists like to make use the alleged recantation of Darwin to prove evolution is wrong. However, that is irrelevant because anyone can reproduce the same observations and come to the same conclusion. If Newton said gravity was false on his deathbed, would his conclusions be anymore false? Darwin based his theory on observations we can repeat, not a relevation I cannot experience.
By comparison, if your beloved Paul, in a last letter to be unearthed in the coming years, recants his belief in Christ and all his letters, your faith fails. Even better, if the author of Genesis were to recant, then creationism fails ON ITS FACE.
There is no way to have the same experiences and observations that led to those conclusions of creationism. That is not the case with evolution.
Creationism:
The evidence for this is mostly self-proclaimed. It is by the understood nature of the bible, by believers, that provides the most evidence for your theory. In a sense, because you believe in both God and his work (the bible), that is the foundation of your "evidence". All indications of nature pointing towards a difference set of ground rules must be dismissed because they violate the self-proclaimed perfectness of the creationist theory. Your evidence is your revelation and your faith. I can challenge neither. The reasoning is deductive from the Bible.
Evolution:
Evidence is based on observation, or better, many many observations. Through these observations, a best-case is made to understand why those occurances exist. That best case, today, is evolution.
Genetic Mutation, fossil records, changes in the environment of the earth. Those are the ground rules evolution uses to explain what happens. Yes, it is a theory, but it is derived inductively from the observations we can make. Most importantly, those observations can be repeated by anyone and at any time. If I went to Galapogos today, I would see the same specialization of bird beaks Darwin observed 150 years ago.
Creationists like to make use the alleged recantation of Darwin to prove evolution is wrong. However, that is irrelevant because anyone can reproduce the same observations and come to the same conclusion. If Newton said gravity was false on his deathbed, would his conclusions be anymore false? Darwin based his theory on observations we can repeat, not a relevation I cannot experience.
By comparison, if your beloved Paul, in a last letter to be unearthed in the coming years, recants his belief in Christ and all his letters, your faith fails. Even better, if the author of Genesis were to recant, then creationism fails ON ITS FACE.
There is no way to have the same experiences and observations that led to those conclusions of creationism. That is not the case with evolution.
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Guest
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- #23
Look it up yourself about the pope and others,O.K? You'll learn.
I have had a great many debates with your kind and I know what you do.
Face it,you do believe in God,you just cannot accept him because you want the freedom to do anything you wish!!!
You are a theist who has chosen to denie God and claim to believe in fairytales so people will feel sorry for you and not hold you accountable because you believe that a world without laws,morals,and rules is the way to be,only most people wouldn't allow you near their children if you came out of the closet and told the truth. You hate God because he won't bow down to you or kiss your booty!
the devil started this rebellion and he is the one you truly serve.
Stop all the games and admit what you really believe. :Fade-color
I have had a great many debates with your kind and I know what you do.
Face it,you do believe in God,you just cannot accept him because you want the freedom to do anything you wish!!!
You are a theist who has chosen to denie God and claim to believe in fairytales so people will feel sorry for you and not hold you accountable because you believe that a world without laws,morals,and rules is the way to be,only most people wouldn't allow you near their children if you came out of the closet and told the truth. You hate God because he won't bow down to you or kiss your booty!
the devil started this rebellion and he is the one you truly serve.
Stop all the games and admit what you really believe. :Fade-color
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ThinkerMan
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- Thread starter
- #24
I have had a great many debates with your kind and I know what you do.
Debates necessitate salient points, of which you haven't made one yet.
This is supposed to be an exchange of ideas and supporting evidence. It's unfortunate that you've stoop to calling evolutionists devil-worshippers instead of simply identifying where we have made errors.
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Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #25
covering the evolution trail
:o Why not explain to everyone here which scientists you pick and choose to believe verses those you don't. tell everyone what goes on at your forums,and while you are at it,tell everyone what books and authors you admire first.
There is no actual debate with you all about science and all the many other subjects you use as a smoke screen,and as I have learned,it's best that you prove where the bible is at fault instead of claiming education from a twisted point of view. You believe those who support your claims,so you claim.
you are at a christian forum,so lets debate with scripture and things that are not about a liberal,free for all school system that funds your religion today. Look up Lord Kelvin and the 2nd law of thermodynamics for starters since he was a true christian.
ex-atheist.com
:Fade-color
:o Why not explain to everyone here which scientists you pick and choose to believe verses those you don't. tell everyone what goes on at your forums,and while you are at it,tell everyone what books and authors you admire first.
There is no actual debate with you all about science and all the many other subjects you use as a smoke screen,and as I have learned,it's best that you prove where the bible is at fault instead of claiming education from a twisted point of view. You believe those who support your claims,so you claim.
you are at a christian forum,so lets debate with scripture and things that are not about a liberal,free for all school system that funds your religion today. Look up Lord Kelvin and the 2nd law of thermodynamics for starters since he was a true christian.
ex-atheist.com
:Fade-color
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #26
Oh not that idiotic claim that the 2nd Law of Thermo somehow goes against evolution, big bang theory, nucleosynthesis, etc.
You do not know enough about thermodynamics or physics in general to make ANY arguments about it. It really doesn't matter one iota, omega or lambda whether or not Kelvin was a christian, atheist or zorastrianist.
You do not know enough about thermodynamics or physics in general to make ANY arguments about it. It really doesn't matter one iota, omega or lambda whether or not Kelvin was a christian, atheist or zorastrianist.
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Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #27
Lord Kelvin
:angel: In fact,Lord kelvin was a true christian and a young earth creationist,amen.
He believed very much what the bible says.
No,you are not going there. I am not letting you lead me into an,I'm smarter than you debate. You cannot pick and choose who you believe are telling the truth and expect us christians to believe it. You will choose those that support your claims every chance you get!!!
been there,done that!
all christians can look up who Lord Kelvin was.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics has much to say. :Fade-color
:angel: In fact,Lord kelvin was a true christian and a young earth creationist,amen.
He believed very much what the bible says.
No,you are not going there. I am not letting you lead me into an,I'm smarter than you debate. You cannot pick and choose who you believe are telling the truth and expect us christians to believe it. You will choose those that support your claims every chance you get!!!
been there,done that!
all christians can look up who Lord Kelvin was.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics has much to say. :Fade-color
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #28
I KNOW the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
dS = dQ/T
It means simply that the processes of any system are not 100% efficient and that any process that requires energy to be used(read: all processes) only part of that energy will be able to be turned into useful work, and a good deal of it is lost as excess heat.
dS = dQ/T
It means simply that the processes of any system are not 100% efficient and that any process that requires energy to be used(read: all processes) only part of that energy will be able to be turned into useful work, and a good deal of it is lost as excess heat.
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Guest
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- #29
SyntaxVorlon said:I KNOW the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
dS = dQ/T
There may be scientists present on this forum,but for those who are not,please refrain from all the jargon. I've already seen how other evolutionists try to impress with their liberal education and how they twist science all they can to try to make it fit their agenda,but true science won't ever do that. :Fade-color
There are many scientists that are creationists,so science is not a good back bone for you,and you only call it science to get the funds from taxpayers to keep it being taught in the schools and colleges.
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Guest
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- #30
Lord Kelvin
I hope all christians will research Lord Kelvin. Alot of useful information for you if you do. :D
I hope all christians will research Lord Kelvin. Alot of useful information for you if you do. :D
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #31
1: I included a fairly straightforward explanation of the meaning of entropy, even you ought to be literate enough to understand it.blueeyeliner said:SyntaxVorlon said:I KNOW the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
dS = dQ/T
There may be scientists present on this forum,but for those who are not,please refrain from all the jargon. I've already seen how other evolutionists try to impress with their liberal education and how they twist science all they can to try to make it fit their agenda,but true science won't ever do that. :Fade-color
There are many scientists that are creationists,so science is not a good back bone for you,and you only call it science to get the funds from taxpayers to keep it being taught in the schools and colleges.
2: You keep making offensive blanket statements about evolution proponents that you have no support for. This is not a viable debating skill. Make sure you have actual support for your statements, that way you can stop saying stupid things.
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Shaky
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- Thread starter
- #32
VS.
Both evolution and creation are considered theory.
Evolutionary scientists are constantly revamping the theory, proving and disproving and arguing about the results. If there is anything they agree on at all, it is simply that the Earth and its inhabitants have been changing for billions of years. While the theory of evolution is not entirely proven, there are many pieces that fit together. These pieces are "proven" to the extent of human capability.
Scientists working on the evolution theory usually don't even twitch an ear at the words of creation theorists. It has simply been ruled out as a viable theory for the thundering lack of evidence.
The creation theory, while a beautiful and intriguing tale, has many parallels, including many equally provable creation myths from all over the world.
Both evolution and creation are considered theory.
Evolutionary scientists are constantly revamping the theory, proving and disproving and arguing about the results. If there is anything they agree on at all, it is simply that the Earth and its inhabitants have been changing for billions of years. While the theory of evolution is not entirely proven, there are many pieces that fit together. These pieces are "proven" to the extent of human capability.
Scientists working on the evolution theory usually don't even twitch an ear at the words of creation theorists. It has simply been ruled out as a viable theory for the thundering lack of evidence.
The creation theory, while a beautiful and intriguing tale, has many parallels, including many equally provable creation myths from all over the world.
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #33
Wrong, creationism(literal genesis and theistic BBT and NS: Evolution) is not a theory it is a belief, this is because the part of god cannot be shown to be true according to any facts we have. And it doesn't really matter that you don't have proof one way or the other, proof isn't the point, the point is belief.(Yet more wisdom du Wittgenstein)Both evolution and creation are considered theory.
Featherbop
Member
- Jun 10, 2003
- 1,444
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Creation is not a theory.
You could say that 'creationism' is a theory though.
You could say that 'creationism' is a theory though.
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Guest
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- #35
Fine,if it were that simple. Your education happens to be biased,and based on what you claim you believe in.
All you are doing is debating over whose science,ect.....education is best.
I believe the entire bible,yet you probably don't accept it as good enough support for my beliefs,so the battle continues.
I also believe the claims of creationist science and young earth science.
http://www.evolutiondocumentary.com
I'll let you debate with those that wish to debate you.
I am having no more to do with it.
carry on as you wish. :B-fly:
All you are doing is debating over whose science,ect.....education is best.
I believe the entire bible,yet you probably don't accept it as good enough support for my beliefs,so the battle continues.
I also believe the claims of creationist science and young earth science.
http://www.evolutiondocumentary.com
I'll let you debate with those that wish to debate you.
I am having no more to do with it.
carry on as you wish. :B-fly:
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #36
That's because you cannot rationally justify its use as a document, at least on the issues that you have been bringing up.
Creationism(YE especially) is not a science because you cannot provide support for it, cannot peer review it and cannot falsify it. It does not qualify as a science.
Creationism(YE especially) is not a science because you cannot provide support for it, cannot peer review it and cannot falsify it. It does not qualify as a science.
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Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #37
Not so and you know it. I cannot be the first christian you have ever encountered who does not believe what you say.
You have your interpretation of science and I have mine and they are very different to put it mild.
The bible proves itself right to me,and thats all I need.
If you have put the bible on trial in your own life and you believe it's wrong,that is between you and God.
My interpretation of The bible and Science,Geology,Biology,space,ect... are in favor of creation by design and a young earth,with no evolving of any kind. DNA means to me data not accidental!
I believe what the bible say about those who don't believe in God,and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that those who say there is no God is without an excuse because nature testifies that God lives,amen.
I also don't believe that we as christians should sugar coat the truth,or roll over and let the enemy kick us. Christians can be bold as a lion at times,and if we would keep it up we won't have abortions and strip clubs,pornography,adultry,rape or murder like it is now or children having sex,ect...
America must wake up! :B-fly:
Your interpretation of science is just your interpretation,it is not shared by all people on earth.
You have your interpretation of science and I have mine and they are very different to put it mild.
The bible proves itself right to me,and thats all I need.
If you have put the bible on trial in your own life and you believe it's wrong,that is between you and God.
My interpretation of The bible and Science,Geology,Biology,space,ect... are in favor of creation by design and a young earth,with no evolving of any kind. DNA means to me data not accidental!
I believe what the bible say about those who don't believe in God,and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that those who say there is no God is without an excuse because nature testifies that God lives,amen.
I also don't believe that we as christians should sugar coat the truth,or roll over and let the enemy kick us. Christians can be bold as a lion at times,and if we would keep it up we won't have abortions and strip clubs,pornography,adultry,rape or murder like it is now or children having sex,ect...
America must wake up! :B-fly:
Your interpretation of science is just your interpretation,it is not shared by all people on earth.
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SyntaxVorlon
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- Thread starter
- #38
??I also don't believe that we as christians should sugar coat the truth,or roll over and let the enemy kick us. Christians can be bold as a lion at times,and if we would keep it up we won't have abortions and strip clubs,pornography,adultry,rape or murder like it is now or children having sex,ect...
This is irrelevant to the conversation.
There is no interpretation to be done. Science is an institution that is run on logical analysis of the world around us, that is what it is and the role all of science seeks to fullfil, no more, no less. You claim that science supports YEC, one of the most utterly moronic things I've heard said on this board. Science most certainly does not support YEC or any further literal interpretation of the bible.Your interpretation of science is just your interpretation,it is not shared by all people on earth.
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Wertbag
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- #39
Theres two sections there, one are organisations and if christians had control it is true that abortion clinics, strip clubs and pornography would be driven underground when made illegal. But you cannot do the same thing for the other listed crimes, there is no way to stop murder (especially acts of spur of the moment anger), teenagers have sex and get pregnant because sex is pleasurable and they want to try it... everyone of every religion wants to stop crime, but its nigh on impossible.Christians can be bold as a lion at times,and if we would keep it up we won't have abortions and strip clubs,pornography,adultry,rape or murder like it is now or children having sex,ect...
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Guest
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- #40
Crime has been here for a very long time,since the days of old,yet We also don't have to make it easy or have such a high tolerance for it.
If we tolerate it and make excuses for it then who will ever know right from wrong.
sex as a teenager is not ever as pleasurable as it is as an adult who is happily married and christian. Something about knowing you are blessed by God just makes a great difference to me. :B-fly:
If we tolerate it and make excuses for it then who will ever know right from wrong.
sex as a teenager is not ever as pleasurable as it is as an adult who is happily married and christian. Something about knowing you are blessed by God just makes a great difference to me. :B-fly: