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Faith alone questions

Jethro Bodine said:
No one is given the free gift of God's righteousness by keeping the commandments. Justification is solely and entirely on the basis of having faith in God's promise of a Son. That's how Abraham received the free gift of righteousness, and that is how we, also, receive the free gift of righteousness (Romans 4:23-24).
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Don't you need to obey God?

Are you talking about justification or sanctification?

When discussing soteriology you kind of have to go from one to the other,
otherwise it becomes a conversational mess.

Justification is free.
Sanctification is not free and requires our involvement.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No one is given the free gift of God's righteousness by keeping the commandments. Justification is solely and entirely on the basis of having faith in God's promise of a Son. That's how Abraham received the free gift of righteousness, and that is how we, also, receive the free gift of righteousness (Romans 4:23-24).
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In your reply above to my post,,,
I was speaking about CONTINUING JUSTIFICATION
ONGOING JUSTIFICATION
or SANCTIFCATION.

That's what I mean by the post I just send before.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
As long as you continue to believe you have God's 100% guaranteed promise that you are saved and will be saved from his wrath at the end of this life. John 5:24.

Your ever increasing traits of the Spirit is how you know you are continuing to believe, and, therefore, prepared to meet God in judgement and pass safely into the kingdom of God at the end of the age. Works confirm your calling and election, not establish it as Catholic theology erroneously teaches. 2 Peter 1:5-11.
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Right.
But what I mean is:
We can't be certain that we'll still be doing the above 10 years from now.

A person can abandon the faith.
At that point are they still saved?

We don't know what we're going to do 10 years from now.
I didn't think I'd ever move to Italy until something changed everything.
 
donadams said:
I

if it’s not possible it’s not required
But if it is possible and is rejected then they are lost
Thanks

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
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Scripture Says: an altar call to accept Jesus as your savior is NOT the same as what scriptures you've displayed about baptism..... slow down and think
 
wondering said:
A person can abandon the faith.
At that point are they still saved?
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No, they aren't still saved.

But only in non-Reformed Protestant theology can a person know with certainty that they are at this present moment saved.

Catholicism and Reformed theology says nobody can know with certainty. Catholics believe it is at the resurrection that you know if you endured to the end in the rituals, deeds, and suffering required to be justified/saved at the resurrection. And Reformed theology Christians believe that it is at the resurrection that you know if you endured in believing all the way to the end showing yourself to really be saved.
 
wondering said:
In your reply above to my post,,,
I was speaking about CONTINUING JUSTIFICATION
ONGOING JUSTIFICATION
or SANCTIFCATION.

That's what I mean by the post I just send before.
Click to expand...
No, you do not remain justified by keeping the commandments of God. You remain justified the same way you received justification - by believing in the promise of God. You remain justified by letting the word of the gospel remain in you in believing (1 John 2:24-25). Commandment keeping being the result or consequence of your continued believing and the continued indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not the means by which you remain justified. Faith does that all by itself from beginning to end.

Catholics believe you are not totally justified until you complete a lifetime of faith, rituals, deeds, and suffering. Reformists say you will remain justified - if you really are justified - because real believers can't stop believing in order to effect a change in your justified status. That justification having been irreversibly given to you when you first believed.
 
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Jethro bodine said: if you really are justified - because real believers can't stop believing in order to effect a change in your justified status


Scripture Says: so you are saying a believer cannot fall into unbelief?
 
Scripture Says said:
Jethro bodine said: if you really are justified - because real believers can't stop believing in order to effect a change in your justified status


Scripture Says: so you are saying a believer cannot fall into unbelief?
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How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and NOT know Jesus lives?

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, they aren't still saved.

But only in non-Reformed Protestant theology can a person know with certainty that they are at this present moment saved.

Catholicism and Reformed theology says nobody can know with certainty. Catholics believe it is at the resurrection that you know if you endured to the end in the rituals, deeds, and suffering required to be justified/saved at the resurrection. And Reformed theology Christians believe that it is at the resurrection that you know if you endured in believing all the way to the end showing yourself to really be saved.
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I agree as to the reformed.

I don't agree as to the Catholic.
I'd like to know HOW you know this.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, you do not remain justified by keeping the commandments of God. You remain justified the same way you received justification - by believing in the promise of God. You remain justified by letting the word of the gospel remain in you in believing (1 John 2:24-25). Commandment keeping being the result or consequence of your continued believing and the continued indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not the means by which you remain justified. Faith does that all by itself from beginning to end.
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If one believes they follow the requests of the believed. This is normal in any situation in life. If you believe in your music teacher, you follow his advice even if it might seem wrong at the time.

If someone doesn't follow God's commandments it means they don't really believe.

Not perfectly, of course.
Only Jesus was perfect.

Jethro Bodine said:
Catholics believe you are not totally justified until you complete a lifetime of faith, rituals, deeds, and suffering.
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Please supply your source.

Jethro Bodine said:
Reformists say you will remain justified - if you really are justified - because real believers can't stop believing in order to effect a change in your justified status. That justification having been irreversibly given to you when you first believed.
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Have you read any of John Calvin's Institutes?

Some who believe they are saved, may not really be saved.

Will provide support when home and at your request so I don't forget.
 
wondering said:
Have you read any of John Calvin's Institutes?
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Negative.

wondering said:
Some who believe they are saved, may not really be saved.
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And that's why the Reformed theology gospel can not provide assurance of salvation to a person. Because it says enduring to the very end in faith is the sign that you are a true believer. That's means you have to wait until the very end to know for sure if you're a real believer or not.

In non-Reformed Protestant theology, if you are presently believing you are presently saved. In that theology the condition for being a saved person is that you are presently believing (John 5:24). And the condition for remaining a saved person is that you continue to believe (1 John 2:24-25). And the sign that you really are a believer, and which you can draw assurance of salvation from, is the ever-increasing traits and fruit of the Spirit in your life (2 Peter 1:8-11). That's a very simple, very comforting gospel.
 
Jethro said: And the condition for remaining a saved person is that you continue to believe

Scripture Says: so your not an eternal security believer?
 
Scripture Says said:
Jethro said: And the condition for remaining a saved person is that you continue to believe

Scripture Says: so your not an eternal security believer?
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I absolutely believe in eternal security, but not as most people define and understand eternal security.

The salvation and eternal life that the faithful and everlasting ministry and sacrifice of Christ affords us is indeed eternally secure. But you have to keep believing in order to remain in that which is eternally secure. That is why the scriptures tell us to keep believing, so that we can remain in the salvation and eternal life that the ministry and sacrifice of Jesus has made sure and secure:

23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14
 
wondering said:
I was speaking about CONTINUING JUSTIFICATION
ONGOING JUSTIFICATION
or SANCTIFCATION.
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Justification and sanctification are two different things.

Justification means to be absolved of all guilt for wrongdoing.
Sanctification means to be cleansed and set apart for a holy purpose.
A person is sanctified (set apart to a holy purpose) the moment they are justified and absolved of all their sin guilt.
Sanctification is also understood as the process of you becoming more and more set apart in practice to that which you have been set apart to.

Sanctification can best be understood by how a housewife puts a set of special dishes aside to only be used for special meals at special times. That setting apart, that sanctification, happens the moment they are set apart for that purpose. But it may take time to sanctify them in regard to the kids no longer using them to heat up a chili dog when mom's not looking. But doing that in no way changed the status of those dishes being set apart for a special purpose. It's just that they sometimes aren't always being used for the special purpose for which they were set apart to. That develops over time. :rollingpin
 
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Scripture Says said:
Ofcourse you do....I cant write it any clearer and wouldnt make a difference if I did correct? Dont think I saw what he said....
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Don meant that if God requires something and we cannot do it then for us it is not required.

If we CAN do it, at some point, then it becomes required again.

At the time, we were discussing baptism.
Jesus did say to be baptized.
 
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