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Faith alone questions

Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, I know that's what it means to a Catholic.

What it means to the Protestant is a person receives the righteousness that is from God and not of themselves solely on the basis of their faith in God's promise of his Son. By virtue of being justified the justified person is a saved person, now, not later. They will be saved from the wrath of God at the final judgement when that happens, so that aspect of salvation is yet to come. But that in no way negates the fact that the justified person is a saved person, now, not later after the satisfactory performance of a lifetime of rituals and good deeds. He will remain saved and ensured of his safe passage through the coming judgement as long as he keeps believing.
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Same with Catholics.
They can know they're saved NOW
IF
They have been justified and do not have any MORTAL sin on their soul.
Venial sins can be forgiven just by asking and at every Mass,
Mortal sins must be forgiven in confession to a priest.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, that is not true. I mean, at least not in the original OSAS teaching, the Calvinist's model of OSAS. In that model the person who does not live a life commensurate with the faith he claims to have will not be saved when Jesus comes back because they are showing by their life of disobedience that they don't really have the faith they claim to have. So, it is not a 'no matter what' kind of thing. Genuine faith is signified by the work it performs, or else it isn't genuine faith.
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OSAS ---- A person is saved by accepting Jesus into his heart. He is saved forever, no matter how many sins he commits.

ETERNAL SECURITY ---- A person can be eternally secure as long as he remains attached to the Vine, abides with Jesus,
follows His commandments, etc.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS ---- A person that is saved because God has saved him, will remain saved forever because God will keep him such.

The last is not totally true but I won't get into Calvinism right now.
God does let some "go".
This is also the one that teaches that if a person loses their salvation it's because they were never saved to begin with.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, good deeds will be used by Jesus at the final judgment as evidence of your salvation. The person who can show by the life they lived that they have faith and have the righteousness that comes by faith will be saved through the wrath of the final judgment and will enter into the eternal kingdom. In no way will a person become a justified/saved person at the final judgment upon satisfactory inspection of their life as donadams says Catholic theology teaches. The children of God are saved the moment they believe, in this life.
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I don't know if Jesus will use good works as evidence of salvation...
I doubt Jesus will be needing any evidence since He already knows everything.
I'm sure you meant something else.

Children of God are saved in this life, right now....


WE WERE SAVED.
WE ARE SAVED.
WE WILL BE SAVED.

There's a verse for each one, please don't make me look it up!
 
Outward manifestations of grace were required to show genuine conversion…

Back when Calvinists ran the show. That would be the first great awakening in the us mid 18th century. Actually it’s very interesting…

The detailed spiritual autobiographies of puritans and intense analysis some ministers would subject certain converts to..they seem to have mostly been more affluent women…

Biblical? I think scripture indicates ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears…

And also warns of convincing tares false prophets false teachers wolves in sheep’s clothing…
 
wondering said:
Same with Catholics.
They can know they're saved NOW
IF
They have been justified and do not have any MORTAL sin on their soul.
Venial sins can be forgiven just by asking and at every Mass,
Mortal sins must be forgiven in confession to a priest.
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donadams says Catholic theology says you are not saved in this lifetime. Ask him.
 
wondering said:
I don't know if Jesus will use good works as evidence of salvation...
I doubt Jesus will be needing any evidence since He already knows everything.
I'm sure you meant something else.
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I'm referring to Matthew 25:31-46.

We know in that passage that Jesus is not saying obedient love for him MAKES you a righteous person (that is, justifies a person). That would instantly violate Paul's teaching about justification. So we know he is saying good works are the evidence of faith in and love for Him and upon which he will pass judgment on people.

Jesus is a just judge and will not let himself be open to a charge of making unjust judgements or showing favoritism, so he uses the deeds of mankind to prove the righteousness of the judgements he is passing so that every mouth will be silenced before him. For he did say many will be saying, 'but I did this, and I did that!' in the effort to make the case for their own righteousness.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'm referring to Matthew 25:31-46.

We know in that passage that Jesus is not saying obedient love for him MAKES you a righteous person (that is, justifies a person). That would instantly violate Paul's teaching about justification. So we know he is saying good works are the evidence of faith in and love for Him and upon which he will pass judgment on people.

Jesus is a just judge and will not let himself be open to a charge of making unjust judgements or showing favoritism, so he uses the deeds of mankind to prove the righteousness of the judgements he is passing so that every mouth will be silenced before him. For he did say many will be saying, 'but I did this, and I did that!' in the effort to make the case for their own righteousness.
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Agreed.
Great explanation.
 
wondering said:
Maybe he means ULTIMATE SALVATION.

Maybe he means it in the way I do...
I'm saved right NOW, but can I be 100% sure I'll be saved 10 years from now?

Do you ask him questions to clarify?
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He's made it very clear no one is saved in this lifetime. He says no one is saved until the end and they have met the condition of being obedient throughout their life to the rituals, deeds, and sufferings commanded to be done by the Catholic church in order to be saved.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
He's made it very clear no one is saved in this lifetime. No one is saved until the end and they have met the condition of being obedient throughout their life to the rituals, deeds, and sufferings commanded to be done by the Catholic church in order to be saved.
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Commandments, OK
I mean obedience.
I could agree to that.

But rituals and sufferings?
I hate that he's doing this.
I can't stop him.

Who knows what he means.
Maybe we offer our life like Roman's 12,1?

I thought you were going to tag me in?
 
wondering said:
Commandments, OK
I mean obedience.
I could agree to that.

But rituals and sufferings?
I hate that he's doing this.
I can't stop him.

Who knows what he means.
Maybe we offer our life like Roman's 12,1?

I thought you were going to tag me in?
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He plainly says that you are justified (made righteous) by performing the sacraments, by doing good deeds, and enduring suffering for Christ, in faith all the way to the end. That is a works justification gospel, which he does not deny, by the way. He knows he's preaching a works justification gospel (faith + works).
 
wondering said:
Commandments, OK
I mean obedience.
I could agree to that.
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No one is given the free gift of God's righteousness by keeping the commandments. Justification is solely and entirely on the basis of having faith in God's promise of a Son. That's how Abraham received the free gift of righteousness, and that is how we, also, receive the free gift of righteousness (Romans 4:23-24).
 
wondering said:
I'm saved right NOW, but can I be 100% sure I'll be saved 10 years from now?
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As long as you continue to believe you have God's 100% guaranteed promise that you are saved and will be saved from his wrath at the end of this life. John 5:24.

Your ever increasing traits of the Spirit is how you know you are continuing to believe, and, therefore, prepared to meet God in judgement and pass safely into the kingdom of God at the end of the age. Works confirm your calling and election, not establish it as Catholic theology erroneously teaches. 2 Peter 1:5-11.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, good deeds will be used by Jesus at the final judgment as evidence of your salvation. The person who can show by the life they lived that they have faith and have the righteousness that comes by faith will be saved through the wrath of the final judgment and will enter into the eternal kingdom. In no way will a person become a justified/saved person at the final judgment upon satisfactory inspection of their life as donadams says Catholic theology teaches. The children of God are saved the moment they believe, in this life.
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Really please splain rom 13:11
Mk 13:13
Matt 24:13
Jn 3:16
Jn 15:4-5
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Rom 11:22
Rom 13:11
Thanks
 
Scripture Says said:
See all these scriptures work together with ALL the scriptures used by the osas believers.....and they teach eternal security is not true.... those scriptures they think they have they dont because they MUST be ALL used (seemingly for and against) to get the truth....
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Are you saved now?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Justification is received as a free gift of God's favor when you believe in his promise of his Son. If you have to work to get God's favor in justification then it is no longer by grace but by works. That's why the Catholic religion is a works justification religion. It is deceitfully disguised as a grace justification religion by saying God gives you the grace to then do the works by which you are made righteous.
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James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Catholic theology says you are justified after a lifetime of satisfactorily performing rituals and deeds.
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No justification by faith and baptism
Jethro Bodine said:
Non- Catholic theology says you are justified one time for all time and don't need to be re-justified the moment you believe in God's promise of his Son. For that is how Abraham, our example of what makes a person righteous in God's sight, was justified.

Catholic theology says you have to add works to the faith of Abraham to become righteous, though Abraham did no such thing to receive the righteousness that comes from God as a free gift. That's what makes Catholicism a works justification religion.
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So does Paul and scripture
 
Jethro Bodine said:
He's made it very clear no one is saved in this lifetime. He says no one is saved until the end and they have met the condition of being obedient throughout their life to the rituals, deeds, and sufferings commanded to be done by the Catholic church in order to be saved.
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....ask him how we could be joyful if we can't know we're saved.
This is the day that the Lord has made.
Let us rejoice and be glad in it.

Philippians 4:4
4Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice.

What about the gifts of the spirit in Gal 5:22?
 
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