Bible Study FAITH, And the Knowledge of God's Righteousness

[ezrider]

In the New Covenant, or the Law of Grace , we are still required to follow the Law but it is no longer of sin because Jesus has fulfilled the Law.

Under the New Covenant we are not "required" to follow the "Law". We have been made free from the law. If we try and follow the law we become servants to law. We are required to walk by Faith, not by knowledge of the law. What this means we shall eventually get to. It does not mean we abandon the knowledge of the law, we have already eaten the fruit of the knowledge of sin and death, there is no turning back. What you decide to do with that knowledge is now up to you. We either take that knowledge and act in the role of the accuser, pointing out and condemning sin in the flesh, showing that we are still the children of wrath. Or we repent of our sin, confess that we have eaten the knowledge of sin and death, and now don't understand what to do with this knowledge.

Why do so many feel the need to sit in judgement over sin in the flesh. Don't they know that God has already judged the word according to the sins of the flesh. It is the sins of the flesh that keeps one blinded to the sin of the spirit, not following the commandment of the Lord to walk by Faith.

Jesus fulfilled the law. He was crucified. Death is the only fulfillment of the law. But we believe that Jesus has conquered death, we believe in the resurrection of Christ, and that if we hold to the Faith first preached, then we have been set free from the power of sin and death.

 

[Jim Parker]

Who told you equating the Law of Moses with the law of sin is an error?

God did in the scriptures I just posted.

By what authority do you declare it to be in error?

By God's authority. I declared exactly what God said. It was not my declaration; it is His.

Have you been made the judge of our thoughts?

You have openly stated your thoughts.
I have shown you that your thoughts are in conflict with scripture.
I do not judge; the words of scripture judge the thoughts you posted.

Seems to me that Paul did not have a problem calling it the law of sin in Rom 7:23, and again in Rom 7:25.

He did not say the Law of Moses was the law of sin.
in Ro 7:25 he makes a distinction between the law of Moses and the law of sin.
Rom 7:25b (RSV)
... I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, (the "law of God" would be the law of Moses since it was given to Moses by God.) but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
You seem to have overlooked that the verse you cited portrays a conflict between two laws; the law of God (Moses) and the law of sin.

So if it be your reasoning that I am in error, then I must assume that you believe Paul was in error too? And if Paul was in error and it is written in the scripture that way for our edification, then perhaps you are declaring that the scriptures too are in error?

Not at all. The scriptures are perfect. I have bet my eternal life on what they say.

However, you appear to be having some difficulty understanding what you are reading. Having taught freshman English, I have found a deficiency in reading comprehension to be rather commonplace among incoming high school graduates so the challenge you seem to be facing is not uncommon.

Perhaps what which you desire that the scriptures say is interfering with your ability to perceive and understand what they actually do say. When you have decided what the scriptures say before you have actually read them, they can be difficult to understand when they say something other than what you had decided they would say. That may be the obstacle which is preventing you from seeing what scripture actually says.

have a nice day.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[ezrider]

You've not understood me.
I believe this is due to the fact that you read with preconceived notions and do not really consider what the writer is saying.

I would agree with your observation. He appears to have his own agenda, and is unwilling or unable to attempt to have an actual conversation.

Your sight on the other hand, thinking that indwelling sin and evil present can "obey and perform" is not available. And the opening poster likes to avoid the subject entirely, preferring not to look a'tall. That we can "think our way" past the obvious by only taking the good stuff out of scriptures for ourselves and ignoring the rest.

Our sight is naturally obscured. When the natural eye receives and processes light, it receives the image inverted, or upside down if you will. The brain must process the image that we receive in order to perceive it correctly. The natural man, being a man after the flesh receives the written word in much the same way, it is inverted and REQUIRES the SPIRIT of CHRIST for proper sight.

The sight that smaller presents is one of sin and evil present within us that resists and can NOT obey. Now while this sight is not completely incorrect, it remains inverted and slightly out of focus. You see, sin and evil within us does resist the Knowledge of God's Righteousness and His Commandment that the Just shall live by Faith. But what sin and evil present within us does NOT RESIST is the LAW. It is the evil present within us that is drawn towards the law. It is sin and evil present within us that tries to justify its actions in the face of the law; it is the evil present within us that seeks its own righteousness through obedience to the law: NOT by resistance to it. What evil within us DOES RESIST, is its own DEATH. The same lie as the serpent: You shall not surely die. That is what evil resist, death; so takes a covering for its sins in hopes of holding off that death. If you had paid attention to the scriptures that I posted as part of the OP, then you might have understood...... Well, it is the point of the OP after all.


Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[ezrider]

God did in the scriptures I just posted.

By God's authority. I declared exactly what God said. It was not my declaration; it is His.

You have openly stated your thoughts.
I have shown you that your thoughts are in conflict with scripture.
I do not judge; the words of scripture judge the thoughts you posted.

He did not say the Law of Moses was the law of sin.
in Ro 7:25 he makes a distinction between the law of Moses and the law of sin.
Rom 7:25b (RSV)
... I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, (the "law of God" would be the law of Moses since it was given to Moses by God.) but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
You seem to have overlooked that the verse you cited portrays a conflict between two laws; the law of God (Moses) and the law of sin.

Not at all. The scriptures are perfect. I have bet my eternal life on what they say.

However, you appear to be having some difficulty understanding what you are reading. Having taught freshman English, I have found a deficiency in reading comprehension to be rather commonplace among incoming high school graduates so the challenge you seem to be facing is not uncommon.

Perhaps what which you desire that the scriptures say is interfering with your ability to perceive and understand what they actually do say. When you have decided what the scriptures say before you have actually read them, they can be difficult to understand when they say something other than what you had decided they would say. That may be the obstacle which is preventing you from seeing what scripture actually says.

have a nice day.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

Whatever...........

It is rather apparent to me that you have no intent of discussing the topic of this OP and Bible study which is Faith and the Knowledge of God's Righteousness.

I will remind you that this is a Bible Study thread and therefore is a discussion forum: it is NOT a debate forum. You have stated you point. Leave it at that. As I said, it is only semantics. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you should take it up with a moderator. But if it really bothers you that much, then you are free to start your own thread giving us your dissertation on the finer points of the Law of Moses and how it is distinguished from the law of sin. As far as this OP is concerned, it doesn't matter, the result is the same: DEATH.

But I will remind you, even though I am quite sure you already understand the concept, but you have no requirement nor obligation to respond to my posts. Nor am I obligated to respond to yours. Now should you choose to attempt to actually discuss the topic of the thread, then we might have something to talk about. But knowing what I know from the scriptures, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Perhaps what which you desire that the scriptures say is interfering with your ability to perceive and understand what they actually do say. When you have decided what the scriptures say before you have actually read them, they can be difficult to understand when they say something other than what you had decided they would say.

You just described the church.

In the last year or so, I've become so frustrated with the uphill battle of trying to talk to the church that I'm about ready to go into seclusion and just live out my remaining days in peace and solitude and have nothing to do with the church. Though, I admit, I haven't quite given up yet.

We are in a very desperate time in church history right now. I'm amazed and dumbfounded by the extent to which the church has departed from the plainly written truths of the Bible. If I had weaker faith it would probably affect me pretty badly.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The knowledge of the law reveals sin.

The mistake is to then conclude that since it reveals sin that it must not be read, or consulted, or obeyed, but instead, destroyed.

Faith reveals the righteousness of God.

Actually, the law does reveal the righteousness of God. What faith does is reveal a new way of being righteous before God (Romans 7:6 NIV). The law, despite being utterly righteous, is a futile way in and of itself to be righteous before God.

We know the righteous character of God by knowing what it is he approves and disapproves of. Just the fact that the law reveals sin makes it a vehicle through which God's righteousness is revealed. But even apart from that, the law does quite clearly teach that which is righteous. The exact verse in the law escapes me (perhaps you can help me), but the law says that when a person does a particular act, it will be considered an act of righteousness. That's just one example of the law being a revelation of God's righteousness.

So, what many in the church don't understand regarding righteousness and the law is that the law is not a way to make one righteous. That hardly means what many in the church thinks that means--that the law is evil and unrighteous and needs to be abandoned for fear of it's unrighteousness. Paul says the exact opposite about the law. In fact, the law is how we detect if a person has the righteousness of God in a born again experience: 'Love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) is the signifying mark in the flesh that one is righteous in Christ (1 John 3:24,2:29 NASB, 1 John 4:7 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The exact verse in the law escapes me (perhaps you can help me), but the law says that when a person does a particular act, it will be considered an act of righteousness. That's just one example of the law being a revelation of God's righteousness.

I found it...

"10When you make a loan of any kind to your neighbor, do not go into their house to get what is offered to you as a pledge. 11Stay outside and let the neighbor to whom you are making the loan bring the pledge out to you. 12If the neighbor is poor, do not go to sleep with their pledge in your possession. 13Return their cloak by sunset so that your neighbor may sleep in it. Then they will thank you, and it will be regarded as a righteous act in the sight of the Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 24:10-13 NIV)

That's an example of the law revealing the righteousness of God. The mistake the Israelites made was to take this and conclude that doing this would then make them righteous before God (Romans 9:31-32 NIV). That's the same mistake unbelievers make. Meanwhile, the church--knowing that simply doing righteous things does not make you righteous--concludes that the law, since doing it can not make you righteous, must be abhorred as an unrighteous thing that causes you to be unrighteous. But what it actually does is reveal YOU AND I to be unrighteous already, in and of ourselves. You and I not doing the righteousness of the law does not reveal the law to be evil and unrighteous, as so many in the church think.

 

[smaller]

The sight that smaller presents is one of sin and evil present within us that resists and can NOT obey. Now while this sight is not completely incorrect, it remains inverted and slightly out of focus.

The law of sin is a law. It's genuine. Real. Functions as stated. Whether we agree to it or not it remains a fact.

You see, sin and evil within us does resist the Knowledge of God's Righteousness and His Commandment that the Just shall live by Faith. But what sin and evil present within us does NOT RESIST is the LAW. It is the evil present within us that is drawn towards the law.

Never said evil present/indwelling sin isn't prompted by the law. That's what the law of sin says. That indwelling sin takes the law and causes evil thoughts against same. One of those evil thoughts is the deception of compliance. Another is denial of Gods Laws.

However indwelling sin/evil present approaches Gods Words, it will not and never will produce a 'truthful' conclusion. That much is certain.

It is sin and evil present within us that tries to justify its actions in the face of the law; it is the evil present within us that seeks its own righteousness through obedience to the law: NOT by resistance to it. What evil within us DOES RESIST, is its own DEATH. The same lie as the serpent: You shall not surely die. That is what evil resist, death; so takes a covering for its sins in hopes of holding off that death. If you had paid attention to the scriptures that I posted as part of the OP, then you might have understood...... Well, it is the point of the OP after all.

Indwelling sin/evil present doesn't care to be examined or exposed by the Light of Gods Words. Those internal workings are NOT interested in taking the "RIGHTFUL CONTINUAL CONDEMNATION" that scripture applies and does not REMOVE.

Any singing the siren song of "don't look" is part of that drama. The same tune is sung by sacerdotal sects who sell forgiveness and religious paste to smear over the subject matter to try to make people feel good or feel entirely spiritual.

All of it is just the basic bad acting job and a refusal to deal with the facts that the Spirit is and remains "actively" contrary to and against the flesh, Gal. 5:17, because of these quite factual workings of indwelling sin and evil present. Romans 7:17-21.

The point of it is this. Whether we "look" at the reality of the law of sin stated by the scriptures, the adverse dynamic remains in place, regardless.

Nobody ditches the evil present withIN them by not looking.

 

[Roro1972]

The "law of sin" remains an operational law.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Whether we observe the fact of it or not won't make any difference. Just as not acknowledging the law of gravity would NOT make it irrelevant. If we ignore the law of gravity it remains in effect, just as does the law of sin.

Eph 2: 15 & 20 Has to come it to play here.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

it seems to me he fulfilled the law and abolished it also and has made a new covenant based on v20 meaning we do not obey the old law of Moses our foundation is in v 20

 

[smaller]

Eph 2: 15 & 20 Has to come it to play here.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

it seems to me he fulfilled the law and abolished it also and has made a new covenant based on v20 meaning we do not obey the old law of Moses our foundation is in v 20

Old Testament law is actually a much deeper subject than people give it credit for.

I like to use 1 Cor. 9:9-10 as an example of how Paul used and deployed his basis of understanding O.T. and APPLYING it to ourselves. He shows therein 2 sights of the law. One, natural/external and another, entirely Spiritual. That was Paul's methodology. I'd call it a basic principle. Paul taught the law in that manner. Twofold. The natural man will only see by the natural method. And they prove it everytime they see only in the literal application.

Paul gives other examples of his methodology in Gal. 4, a more well known in general conclusion as to "end analysis" but HOW he actually derived that sight is far more interesting.

In Gal. 4 for example Paul takes not only the law, but the lives of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Hagar and Ishmael and deploys "allegory" just as Paul does in 1 Cor. 9:9-10 and forms the basic understandings we have today in most of Christiandom of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. But how Paul actually got there is not an easy puzzle to assemble.

And Paul openly shows them to BOTH be presently applicable, the Old and the New.

It gets even more interesting when Paul says in 1 Cor. 9:9-10 that his second conclusion is "as it is written." But if you take his conclusion you won't find it "as it is written" anywhere in the scriptures UNLESS you know how, method wise, he derived his conclusions. There are "methods." But those methods can not be seen UNLESS we submit, personally, to other factual conclusions in the N.T.

Submitting to the facts of the law of sin, personally, as Paul gives it in Romans 7 is one of the milestones that has to be accepted personally. Not just lip service. It has to be "sincerely believed" and "personally applied." That's how God set up His System. Those who don't submit will head to denial of those scriptures and thusly, the other scriptures.

Another milestone is Romans 13:8-12. If any believer does not "personally submit" to that quest with all their heart, and the other conclusions therein, they will see exactly NOTHING from the scriptures in the directions Paul moves.

The basic fulcrum Romans 7 gives us, is to understand that we have to deal, each one of us, with a disobedient spiritual adversary in our own flesh that is not US. This Paul shows when describing indwelling sin as "no more I" THAT DO IT. And DO IT, it DOES.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

we do not obey the old law of Moses our foundation is in v 20

If you do not obey the law then you are showing yourself to not be born again.

What has been abolished (laid aside) in the law are the things that Christ's sacrifice has made obsolete and no longer needed to be accomplished. For example, the literal Sabbath rest. It is no longer necessary to try to draw near to God in covenant rest that we already have in Christ. Circumcision is another example. We no longer have to draw near to God in covenant circumcision that we already have in Christ. Faith in Christ is the new way to satisfy the covenant requirements of God and which makes the old way unneeded now. Not destroyed, just not needed anymore. Therefore, they can be laid aside (abolished).

The problem comes in when people think that laws like "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) have been abolished. The people of God were given the Holy Spirit in this New Covenant to keep that law exactly as stipulated in the law. It has not been abolished (set aside) in any way shape or form. Faith upholds the law of Moses, not destroys it.

 

[Roro1972]

If you do not obey the law then you are showing yourself to not be born again.

What has been abolished (laid aside) in the law are the things that Christ's sacrifice has made obsolete and no longer needed to be accomplished. For example, the literal Sabbath rest. It is no longer necessary to try to draw near to God in covenant rest that we already have in Christ. Circumcision is another example. We no longer have to draw near to God in covenant circumcision that we already have in Christ. Faith in Christ is the new way to satisfy the covenant requirements of God and which makes the old way unneeded now. Not destroyed, just not needed anymore. Therefore, they can be laid aside (abolished).

The problem comes in when people think that laws like "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) have been abolished. The people of God were given the Holy Spirit in this New Covenant to keep that law exactly as stipulated in the law. It has not been abolished (set aside) in any way shape or form. Faith upholds the law of Moses, not destroys it.

If one feels the old law was not done away with and they must follow them then they can become trapped in the old covenant. the old covenant and the old law was done away with. and a New covenant by faith was Established. The new covenant by faith has almost to the letter the same laws as did the old but they have nothing to do with the old it is gone. The Nt has listed all the laws we need to go by; in different books and verses but they are listed. So yes we have almost identical laws as the old, they were established anew in the new covenant so we do not have to look at the old law to know how to live, love or treat people around us it is in the NT and the New Covenant for us to see.

 

[Jim Parker]

You just described the church.

In the last year or so, I've become so frustrated with the uphill battle of trying to talk to the church that I'm about ready to go into seclusion and just live out my remaining days in peace and solitude and have nothing to do with the church. Though, I admit, I haven't quite given up yet.

We are in a very desperate time in church history right now. I'm amazed and dumbfounded by the extent to which the church has departed from the plainly written truths of the Bible. If I had weaker faith it would probably affect me pretty badly.

You are not alone.
That is a widely experienced frustration.
Who is equipping "...the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles." (Eph 4:12-14 RSV)
There is a war going on for the souls of mankind.
And we're focused on what? Tithing?
Yeah! Let's build that mega-church filled with spiritual toddlers!

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Jim Parker]

I will remind you that this is a Bible Study thread and therefore is a discussion forum: it is NOT a debate forum.

I'm posting my understanding of scripture.
If you don't want to debate then quit debating.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So yes we have almost identical laws as the old, they were established anew in the new covenant

It's the same law. Christ himself said he did not come to abolish (destroy) the law:

"17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17 NASB)

What's different is the WAY that we uphold the law. We do it now in the new WAY of the Spirit. Prior to the giving of the Spirit it was upheld in the old way of the written code itself.

"6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NASB)

Example:
old way: Circumcise the foreskin of the....uh...you know.
new way: Circumcise the influence of the flesh from the heart.

The lawful requirement for circumcision did not get destroyed (Christ said he did not come to do that). The lawful requirement for circumcision remains, and gets fulfilled through our faith in Christ and the resulting indwelling of the Spirit, a.k.a. the new way of the Spirit.

 

[Roro1972]

It's the same law. Christ himself said he did not come to abolish (destroy) the law:

"17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17 NASB)

What's different is the WAY that we uphold the law. We do it now in the new WAY of the Spirit. Prior to the giving of the Spirit it was upheld in the old way of the written code itself.

"6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NASB)

Example:
old way: Circumcise the foreskin of the....uh...you know.
new way: Circumcise the influence of the flesh from the heart.

The lawful requirement for circumcision did not get destroyed (Christ said he did not come to do that). The lawful requirement for circumcision remains, and gets fulfilled through our faith in Christ and the resulting indwelling of the Spirit, a.k.a. the new way of the Spirit.

I need to think on this some. I know 3 or 4 verses says he did abolish the law. Not sure how Im going to sort this out.
thanks

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I need to think on this some. I know 3 or 4 verses says he did abolish the law. Not sure how Im going to sort this out.
thanks

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus is using a different Greek word for 'abolish' than Paul is using for 'abolish' in Ephesians 2:15.
Jesus is speaking of destroying the law--a trampling down of the law, and how he did not come to do that. Paul, on the other hand, is speaking of making the law obsolete and no longer needed to govern one's distance and separation from God and, therefore, sits idly on the sidelines in regard to it's affect on a person.

In Ephesians 2, Paul is explaining how the worship laws that kept the gentiles at a distance from the commonwealth of Israel no longer have any application to gentiles because gentiles in Christ are in effect no longer gentiles that the law should apply to them. Through their faith they now belong to the one new man, and nation, and people of God, the body of Jesus Christ.

Gentiles who come to Christ through faith don't destroy the laws governing who can and can't approach God, and when. What happens is those laws simply do not apply to believing gentiles (and Jews) who have been brought near to God through their faith in Christ. And so it is in that way that the law of Moses governing the relationship between God, the Jews, and gentiles simply have no application any more. They are obsolete. They have been abolished (set aside) as unneeded now. Which is what Christ DID come to do. He broke down the lawful barriers that kept gentiles, and even the Jews to some extent, from having contact with him. But he did not come to destroy those laws.

So, it's not that we who believe break those laws. They just simply don't apply to new creations in Christ who are neither Jew nor gentile, spiritually speaking, in the eyes of God. The law of the veil is a good example. It legislated the distance and separation between the manifest glory and presence of God and the people of God. But by faith in Christ the believer is brought behind the curtain and the law that prevented them from doing that has no affect on them. What application does the law of the veil have to a person who is already behind the curtain through their faith in Christ? None of course. That law has been abolished (set aside) by the new way of faith in Christ to approach God. The old way to approach God (don't go behind the curtain unless you are the High Priest, and only on a specific day) can be set aside (abolished, not destroyed) now.

 

[ezrider]

The mistake is to then conclude that since it reveals sin that it must not be read, or consulted, or obeyed, but instead, destroyed.

The mistake is in your assumption that because it reveals sin that it must not be read, or consulted, or destroyed. That is a line of thought that you employ in your defense of the scriptures, but not one that holds any true reckoning. Now since Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law, but rather to fulfill it, then why would you assume similar conclusion would be to destroy or disregard the scriptures. The scriptures have their proper place. The question is: when you look to the scriptures are you seeking the knowledge of sin and the knowledge of good and evil? OR, are you looking to the scriptures to hear the testimony of the cloud of witnesses?

 

[ezrider]

Actually, the law does reveal the righteousness of God.

The Law does NOT reveal the Righteousness of God. The Law reveals the righteous works required to walk under the Law before God, but it does not reveal the Righteousness of God.

The Scripture is quite clear that the Righteousness of God is revealed from faith, TO FAITH. Paul is quite clear that be the law, they have set out to establish their own righteousness.

Romans 10:1-3
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[ezrider]

"10When you make a loan of any kind to your neighbor, do not go into their house to get what is offered to you as a pledge. 11Stay outside and let the neighbor to whom you are making the loan bring the pledge out to you. 12If the neighbor is poor, do not go to sleep with their pledge in your possession. 13Return their cloak by sunset so that your neighbor may sleep in it. Then they will thank you, and it will be regarded as a righteous act in the sight of the Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 24:10-13 NIV)

That's an example of the law revealing the righteousness of God.

This is a law that describes a righteous act of obedience under the law, yet it still remains a work of the Law; it is NOT an example of God's righteousness.

When Moses spoke with the Lord, the Glory of the Lord's Righteousness shone upon his face, such that he had to wear a vail over his face when spoke to the children of Israel. But this vail is done away in Christ. The Righteousness of the Lord can not be looked upon by flesh and blood, The Righteousness of God will only be revealed by His Spirit through faith. It God's way. He declared it to be so by the Law and the Prophets.