Bible Study Faith in Christ

[jerry63935]

You posted something about the "finish works of the Cross"

you bet i did when Jesus said it is finished the DEBT was paid in full ===Grace he paid a debt he did not owe i owed a debt i could not pay.. the it is finished is for the whosoever shall

This implies man has a role in his own salvation that role being obedient to Christ (Heb 5:9) Who requires belief (John 8:24) repentance (Luke 13:3) confession (Mt 10:32033) and baptism (Mk 16:16) to be saved.

yes these things are the night i got saved i had no idea what repentance was nor obedience much less confession ..i said God save me. romans 10:10 with the HEART man believes, with the mouth confession > For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. man likes to add things to the plan of salvation the lost man must believe but its a prayer of faith. my 1st church i had a 7 year old girl come to me asking if i could help her get saved. i come close to a heart attack. i told her listen to the preaching and at the end if she wanted to be saved. go to the altar and tell God what she wanted . i baptized her couple weeks later ..BTW her name was faith . i will never forget that Girl

 

[jerry63935]

what the jailer had to do to be saved.

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ adults make it so hard .

 

[for_his_glory]

No, adding the word "alone" (adding or subtracting any words) changes God's word. Martin Luther added the word "alone" into Romans to force his 'faith only' his idea into it.

It doesn't matter what anyone adds to or takes away from the word, but that they will be held accountable for doing so, Rev 22:18, 19. It's all about first having faith and belief in Christ Jesus who is our free gift of grace from God as salvation is through Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross. We do not deserve it nor are we worthy of it and our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God as we are made righteous by His righteousness.

Faith is necessary to salvation unconditionally. Good works are necessary only conditionally, that is if there is time and opportunity, but yet our best efforts can never be good enough to earn salvation. It is God that declares us righteous for Christ's sake as He sanctifies us and sets us apart for we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Below verses are about faith and belief alone, not of works. I could give many many more, but these are sufficient enough.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. 4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Romans 1:17; 3:28; 4:5; Romans 5:9; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; James 2:23, 24; Ephesians 2:8, 9; John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 16:31

 

[for_his_glory]

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ adults make it so hard .

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's just that simple.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yet Eph 2:8 does NOT say salvation is by faith alone. The word "alone" is not even in the verse!!!!

There is a up and down, night and day difference between "faith" and "faith alone"

Romans 5:1-2 faith justifies
James 2:24 faith alone does not justify further showing the total difference between the two.

"Faith alone" is void of obedience thereby making it dead. "Faith" includes obedience, faith is itself obedience making it a living, viable, saving faith.

The word alone is not there, but also the word work is not there either.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. By works a man is justified and not by faith only as by faith that comes first we are then set apart unto good works as we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works is the obedience part after faith as we start to walk in God's commands after receiving God's free gift of grace. Faith is through Christ Jesus and our hope in Him by His finished works on the cross as we are the whosoever that believe in Him by faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

NT belief includes baptism, hence one does not have a NT belief until one repents, confesses and is baptized.

Where is that found in John 3:16 or Romans 10:9, 10?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Are you speaking of confessing Christ or confessing we are sinners in need of a Savior?

Won't get into the baptizing as that is another topic if you would like to start a new thread on that.

 

[PeterJens]

Wait.
You didn't comment on Galatians 5:22
Faith is a gift.
But faithfulness is what we ARE/DO toward God....we are faithful to Him.
Is this two different ideas? Or the same?

Faith is the gift of sight that we see God by. Faithfulness is our response to seeing the truth.

I know temptation for involvement with lonely women, but equally the pain and destruction this will cause. It is both real to see both and know blessing in God. Equally to know God's word breathing on our souls is life, but we can let it die. Working it through creates life, a wonder.

One guy doubted God's word, called it an idol, he knew God so did not need God's word. It made me see God's word shows us God's love, grace and law working on flawed humans which gives is real hope. It is so vast, alive, always accessible, a gift of love to us, written in blood which we take for granted.

Faithfulness is one of the traits Jesus praised that we need for life on Him. God bless you

 

[JLB]

No.

Romans 5:1-2 says faith justifies
James 2:24 says faith alone does not justify

Since faith justifies and faith alone does not justify then faith and faith alone are not the same thing.

 

[JLB]

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ adults make it so hard .

What does believe mean in the original?


Many people “believe in God”.

What about repent?



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

What does believe mean in the original?


Many people “believe in God”.

What about repent?



JLB

the NIGHT i got saved i had no idea what the word repent meant. i said GOD save me Romans 10:10 with HEART its the heart that matter at conversion not the mouth it only says the words . its your question you answer

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Where is that found in John 3:16 or Romans 10:9, 10?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Are you speaking of confessing Christ or confessing we are sinners in need of a Savior?

Won't get into the baptizing as that is another topic if you would like to start a new thread on that.

Jn 3:16---------------belief>>>>>>>>>>saves (not perish)
Luke 13:3------------repentance>>>>>>>saves (not perish)
Romans 10:9-10----confession>>>>>>>saves
1 Pet 3:21-----------baptism>>>>>>>>>saves

SInce there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives. then NT belief would include repentance, confession and baptism.

Belief only will not save the impenitent who refuse to confess Christ or be baptized for remission of sins.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.

Romans 5:1-2 says faith justifies
James 2:24 says faith alone does not justify

Since faith justifies and faith alone does not justify then faith and faith alone are not the same thing.

This is what we were discussing last night.
Romans 5:1-2 says FAITH justify. This means that ONLY FAITH saves.
If you don't agree, you'll have to explain why.

James 2:24 says FAITH ALONE does NOT justify.

This is a total conflict.
Does the N.T. contain conflict?

Who is right then...
Paul or James?

One says faith justifies
and the other says faith does not justify.

How would YOU reconcile this?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you understand that belief is NOT just mental activity as acknowledging certain facts but that belief is an obedient work that includes repentance, confession and baptism?

BELIEVE means something in the N.T.
Assume that I know what it means.

You're saying that if I'm a new BELIEVER but not baptized.....
and die the next week, I'll go straight to hell.

So then why did Jesus have to die for me?

 

[GodsGrace]

You did not understand my post.

I pointed out there is a difference between "faith" and "faith alone"

What's the difference?

FAITH since it states nothing else, means FAITH ALONE.
FAITH ALONE means FAITH ALONE.

If not, please explain.

You're presenting a conflict in scripture and it MUST be reconciled.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, here is what you earlier posted to me in blue below:

Could you reconcile
Romans 5:1-2 faith justifies
James 2:24 faith does not justify

You left out the word "alone" in James 2:24.

It is this:
Romans 3:1-2 faith justifies
James 2:24 faith ALONE does not justify

Therefore "faith" and "faith alone" are not the same thing.

Explain the difference please.

Paul says faith justifies.
James says faith (alone) does not justify.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The word alone is not there, but also the word work is not there either.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. By works a man is justified and not by faith only as by faith that comes first we are then set apart unto good works as we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works is the obedience part after faith as we start to walk in God's commands after receiving God's free gift of grace. Faith is through Christ Jesus and our hope in Him by His finished works on the cross as we are the whosoever that believe in Him by faith.

See post #50 in this thread about faith/belief being a work.

Obedience is necessary from man BEFORE man can be saved....obey be believing, repenting, confessing with the mouth and submitting to baptism.

AFTER one gains initial salvation by obeying he must continue to obey in doing good works (Eph 2:10; Titus 3:14) being faithful unto death (Rev 2:10). Obedience in doing these good works one are just as necessary to salvation as the obedience in believing repenting confessing and being baptized. Yet these good works do not merit one's salvation no more than the obedient works of belief repentance confession or submitting to baptism.

The "not of works" of Eph 2:9 cannot eliminate ALL works of all kind but eliminates works of merit and cannot eliminate obedience in doing good works (Eph 2:10) that God requires of the Christian.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Explain the difference please.

Paul says faith justifies.
James says faith (alone) does not justify.

Faith includes obedient works. **
Faith alone lacks obedient works.


** (Faith itself is a work - see post #50)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This is what we were discussing last night.
Romans 5:1-2 says FAITH justify. This means that ONLY FAITH saves.
If you don't agree, you'll have to explain why.

James 2:24 says FAITH ALONE does NOT justify.

This is a total conflict.
Does the N.T. contain conflict?

Who is right then...
Paul or James?

One says faith justifies
and the other says faith does not justify.

How would YOU reconcile this?

First, Paul and James both agree that obedient works are necessary to being saved:

Romans 6:17-18-----obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justified (freed from sin)
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify

Secondly, when James say works justify (James 2:24) and Paul says works do not justify (Romans 4:2) they are NOT talking about the same kind of work.

In James 2:24 the kind of work James says justifies is obedience to the will of God
In Romans 4 the kind of work that does not justify is the strict flawless work required by the OT law.

James is basically saying faith without works (obedience) does not justify.
Paul is saying flawless works without faith will not justify.

They are both approaching the same conclusion (faith + obedience = saves) from different directions.

 

[GodsGrace]

Faith is the gift of sight that we see God by. Faithfulness is our response to seeing the truth.

I know temptation for involvement with lonely women, but equally the pain and destruction this will cause. It is both real to see both and know blessing in God. Equally to know God's word breathing on our souls is life, but we can let it die. Working it through creates life, a wonder.

One guy doubted God's word, called it an idol, he knew God so did not need God's word. It made me see God's word shows us God's love, grace and law working on flawed humans which gives is real hope. It is so vast, alive, always accessible, a gift of love to us, written in blood which we take for granted.

Faithfulness is one of the traits Jesus praised that we need for life on Him. God bless you

Thanks.
Yes, I also understand it this way.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It doesn't matter what anyone adds to or takes away from the word, but that they will be held accountable for doing so, Rev 22:18, 19. It's all about first having faith and belief in Christ Jesus who is our free gift of grace from God as salvation is through Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross. We do not deserve it nor are we worthy of it and our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God as we are made righteous by His righteousness.

Faith is necessary to salvation unconditionally. Good works are necessary only conditionally, that is if there is time and opportunity, but yet our best efforts can never be good enough to earn salvation. It is God that declares us righteous for Christ's sake as He sanctifies us and sets us apart for we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Below verses are about faith and belief alone, not of works. I could give many many more, but these are sufficient enough.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. 4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Romans 1:17; 3:28; 4:5; Romans 5:9; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; James 2:23, 24; Ephesians 2:8, 9; John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 16:31

--If one add or takes from God's word, then one no longer has God's word but a perversion of it.

--righteousness is as filthy rags refers specifically to Israel at a time Israel was in iniquity (Isa 64:6-7) and not universally applicable to all men.

Isa 64:5 says God meets, entreats, helps those who do righteousness - not treated as filthy rags.
Acts 10:35 God accepts those that work righteousness - not treated as filthy rags.

If man' obedience to God is filthy rags then if we substitute "filthy rags" for "obeying" then the following verses now read:

Heb 5:8 though He were a son He learned filthy rags by the things He suffered.
Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that have filthy rags.

2 Thess 1:8 in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who do not have filthy rags
1 Peter 4:17 what is the end of them that have no filthy rags?