Bible Study Faith in Christ

[Ernest T. Bass]

you bet i did when Jesus said it is finished the DEBT was paid in full ===Grace he paid a debt he did not owe i owed a debt i could not pay.. the it is finished is for the whosoever shall yes these things are the night i got saved i had no idea what repentance was nor obedience much less confession ..i said God save me. romans 10:10 with the HEART man believes, with the mouth confession > For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. man likes to add things to the plan of salvation the lost man must believe but its a prayer of faith. my 1st church i had a 7 year old girl come to me asking if i could help her get saved. i come close to a heart attack. i told her listen to the preaching and at the end if she wanted to be saved. go to the altar and tell God what she wanted . i baptized her couple weeks later ..BTW her name was faith . i will never forget that Girl

Christ dying on the cross paved the way for man to have all his sins taken away. Those who obey Christ are the ones that take advantage of what Christ did on the cross, while those that disobey will miss out on what Christ did on the cross.

Christ dying on the cross>>>CHrist's role in man's salvation
Man obeying Christ (Heb 5:9) >>>man's role in his own salvation

Christ's death on the cross does not unconditionally save men at random but specifically saves those that conditionally obey.

==========


Romans 10:10 is just one verse out of dozens that deal with salvation. Rarely does just one verse exhaust all their is to know about a subject and Romans 10:10 does not tell us everything about salvation. When one examines "all the counsel of od" (Acts 20:27) one finds hearing (Romans 10:17) belief (Jn 8:24) repentance (Mt 10:32-33) and baptism (Mk 16:16) are necessary for one to gain initial salvation. One verse theologies will fail.

=====

Did the 7 year old girl have the mental maturity to understand NT ideas Christ presented? Did she understand what sin is, what NT belief is about? Understand purpose of repentance, confession, baptism? Understand about what living a godly life is about?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ adults make it so hard .

Many do not understand that NT belief includes repentance and baptism, not just belief alone. The jailer was not commanded to believe alone.

There is but one way to be saved:

--When those in Acts 2 asked what they must do, they were commanded to repent and be baptized.

--Again since there is just one way to be saved, any surprise then the jailer also upon hearing the word believed, repented and was baptized?

Belief repentance baptism are all commanded making them necessary part of salvation.

 

[jerry63935]

Many do not understand that NT belief includes repentance and baptism, not just belief alone. The jailer was not commanded to believe alone.

There is but one way to be saved:

--When those in Acts 2 asked what they must do, they were commanded to repent and be baptized.

--Again since there is just one way to be saved, any surprise then the jailer also upon hearing the word believed, repented and was baptized?

Belief repentance baptism are all commanded making them necessary part of salvation.

look i dont have time nor the desire to discuss your apostolic doctrine ..period the end

 

[jerry63935]

What does believe mean in the original?


Many people “believe in God”.

What about repent?



JLB

ROMANS 10:10 if you want to reject scripture ,,if you want to rephrase it so be it ..i am done done done

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

look i dont have time nor the desire to discuss your apostolic doctrine ..period the end

apostolic doctrine?

 

[for_his_glory]

Jn 3:16---------------belief>>>>>>>>>>saves (not perish)
Luke 13:3------------repentance>>>>>>>saves (not perish)
Romans 10:9-10----confession>>>>>>>saves
1 Pet 3:21-----------baptism>>>>>>>>>saves

SInce there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives. then NT belief would include repentance, confession and baptism.

Belief only will not save the impenitent who refuse to confess Christ or be baptized for remission of sins.

Sorry, but I see none of these verses being any works towards salvation, but man's doctrine, apart from the doctrines of Christ, teaches a work based salvation. We are saved through faith and belief in Christ who gives us eternal life with Him when we first accepted Him as our personal Lord and Saviour through that of God's free gift of grace. Repentance, confession and being baptized in the Holy Spirit is all a part of the Spiritual rebirth as being requirements, not works of the flesh.

What is freely given is freely received as these verses below are the works we continue in after we have accepted Jesus into our heart. These works began with the first 12 Disciples of Christ as all who are of Christ are His disciples.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[JLB]

ROMANS 10:10 if you want to reject scripture ,,if you want to rephrase it so be it ..i am done done done

Jerry

I don’t know about the other sites you may have come from, but here, we really don’t want this kind of dialog.


Please, just state what you believe to be true with the scripture and refrain from all the drama.


If you don’t want to discuss a certain topic with me or anyone else, then just don’t respond.


I don’t reject scripture.

Romans 10:10 is just one of the many scriptures that teaches us to believe, and therefore obey the Gospel.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We see here that Paul is teaching that both believing and confessing with our mouth Jesus as Lord, is required for salvation.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is our response to the Gospel command repent.

This is what it means to obey the Gospel.


If Jesus is now our Lord, then we are obligated to obey Him as Lord.


If you don’t believe that Christians must obey Jesus as Lord, then that is up to you.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

First, Paul and James both agree that obedient works are necessary to being saved:

Romans 6:17-18-----obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justified (freed from sin)
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify

Secondly, when James say works justify (James 2:24) and Paul says works do not justify (Romans 4:2) they are NOT talking about the same kind of work.

In James 2:24 the kind of work James says justifies is obedience to the will of God
In Romans 4 the kind of work that does not justify is the strict flawless work required by the OT law.

James is basically saying faith without works (obedience) does not justify.
Paul is saying flawless works without faith will not justify.

They are both approaching the same conclusion (faith + obedience = saves) from different directions.

First, Paul and James both agree that obedient works are necessary to being saved:

Romans 6:17-18-----obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justified (freed from sin)
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify

Secondly, when James say works justify (James 2:24) and Paul says works do not justify (Romans 4:2) they are NOT talking about the same kind of work.

In James 2:24 the kind of work James says justifies is obedience to the will of God
In Romans 4 the kind of work that does not justify is the strict flawless work required by the OT law.

James is basically saying faith without works (obedience) does not justify.
Paul is saying flawless works without faith will not justify.

They are both approaching the same conclusion (faith + obedience = saves) from different directions.

The above explanation is valid...but could still cause some confusion as to what saves.

The problems here are two:
1. Justification is really simultaneous with sanctification.
2. This caused James to use an incorrect word --- or for the translation to be incorrect.

dd

First, Paul and James both agree that obedient works are necessary to being saved:

Romans 6:17-18-----obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justified (freed from sin)
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify

Secondly, when James say works justify (James 2:24) and Paul says works do not justify (Romans 4:2) they are NOT talking about the same kind of work.

In James 2:24 the kind of work James says justifies is obedience to the will of God
In Romans 4 the kind of work that does not justify is the strict flawless work required by the OT law.

James is basically saying faith without works (obedience) does not justify.
Paul is saying flawless works without faith will not justify.

They are both approaching the same conclusion (faith + obedience = saves) from different directions.

Your very first sentence is confusing....
but otherwise the above could be a valid explanation of the conflict between
Romans 4:1 and James 2:22

For the sake of simplicity, I'd explain it differently, but it ends up being the same.

Romans 4.1 is speaking about how the Law does not save. Even in the O.T. it was always faith that saved.

James 2:22 is explaining that once a person is justified..works/good deeds must follow .

This is because faith produces good works.
However, all the works in the world cannot save a person without having faith first.

That's about it, except we could add the following:

1. Justification and sanctification happen simultaneously, thus making it difficult to understand justification,

2. a word which James used incorrectly because this doctrine had not been established yet. Faith and Works do NOT cause justification, since it is wholly a work of God. Only faith can make one saved.
Sanctification causes works....man has a part in his salvation.
It's unfortunate James didn't use the word SANCTIFY instead of Justify.

 

[jerry63935]

I don’t know about the other sites you may have come from, but here, we really don’t want this kind of dialog.

what about your dialog ? you have a hard time accepting believe on the Lord JESUS CHRISt . this the apostle paul words not my words dialog is a 2 way thing between parties . in this case you and me

Confessing Jesus as Lord is our response to the Gospel command repent.

This is what it means to obey the Gospel.


If Jesus is now our Lord, then we are obligated to obey Him as Lord.


If you don’t believe that Christians must obey Jesus as Lord, then that is up to you.

lets consider dialog your adding to my words i said getting saved is the obey. i am not sure where you get the part from my post we dont have to obey . never the less i am through with this post .that is between you and me.

 

[JLB]

you have a hard time accepting believe on the Lord JESUS CHRISt .

Of course I accept that we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


My question to you was do you know what believe means in the original?

 

[JLB]

lets consider dialog your adding to my words i said getting saved is the obey. i am not sure where you get the part from my post we dont have to obey . never the less i am through with this post .that is between you and me.

Believe means at its core to obey.



Here is a verse that uses believe and obey interchangeably —



He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



Thats the only point I was making that believe and obey are used interchangeably in the original language.




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

I don’t know about the other sites you may have come from, but here, we really don’t want this kind of dialog.


Please, just state what you believe to be true with the scripture and refrain from all the drama.

other sites has nothing to do with it .there is no drama ,if you wish to discuss our indifferences in private we can . honestly i have stated what i believe. i dont do drama i will discuss and i will point out what/where i disagree . its not personal just a matter of how i see scriptures the 7 year old girl who came to me asking if i would help her get saved. i explained she needs to listen to the message and if she still wanted to get saved all she had to do was go to the altar. tell God what she wanted i did not lead her in a prayer . my wife and another preachers wife prayed with her. i let the Holy spirit do the work. i do not say repeat this prayer 4or 5 sentences. when it say whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved . roman 10:10 is a very important key scripture .the words has to come from the heart. as long as i use them guidelines i am allowing the Holy spirit to do the job needed . that includes taking the words we say and taking them to the throne of GRACE . the way it should be said God save me .

 

[JLB]

roman 10:10 is a very important key scripture .

I agree

 

[jerry63935]

Believe means at its core to obey.

ya know i seriously doubt the jailer took time to ask what is believe .he was scared on the verge of taking his life . he had to hear paul and silas having church.. the word penetrated his heart. after paul said do your self no harm. his next words what must i do to be saved. reply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ . very simple we dont have to know what every thing means . just call upon him by faith its a done deal .man likes to complicate things .he has made up a sinners prayer peter when sinking in the storm said Lord save me . Christ reached out and pulled him up. perfect example of salvation . i have done went farther that what i was going to.

 

[for_his_glory]

See post #50 in this thread about faith/belief being a work.

Obedience is necessary from man BEFORE man can be saved....obey be believing, repenting, confessing with the mouth and submitting to baptism.

AFTER one gains initial salvation by obeying he must continue to obey in doing good works (Eph 2:10; Titus 3:14) being faithful unto death (Rev 2:10). Obedience in doing these good works one are just as necessary to salvation as the obedience in believing repenting confessing and being baptized. Yet these good works do not merit one's salvation no more than the obedient works of belief repentance confession or submitting to baptism.

The "not of works" of Eph 2:9 cannot eliminate ALL works of all kind but eliminates works of merit and cannot eliminate obedience in doing good works (Eph 2:10) that God requires of the Christian.

Our obedience after accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior is to walk in the greatest commandment of love as we walk in the light of Christ. When we do this we are bringing the light of Christ to the world as we then continue in the good works the Lord began in us as we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Our good works are found in Matthew 25:31-40; James 1:27.

We don't gain salvation, but are given salvation through Christ Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, 16. None of us are saved as Jesus said that those who endure until the end, meaning when He returns, are then saved as our salvation will be complete, Matthew 24:13; Colossians 2:6-15.

Our salvation is complete in Christ through His finished works of the cross when He said "It is finished". Christ is the author and finisher of our faith by that of God's free gift of grace, Ephesians 2:8-10; Hebrews 12:1, 2.

Freely given, freely received. Nowhere in scripture will you find a worked based salvation being taught.

 

[for_his_glory]

--If one add or takes from God's word, then one no longer has God's word but a perversion of it.

--righteousness is as filthy rags refers specifically to Israel at a time Israel was in iniquity (Isa 64:6-7) and not universally applicable to all men.

Isa 64:5 says God meets, entreats, helps those who do righteousness - not treated as filthy rags.
Acts 10:35 God accepts those that work righteousness - not treated as filthy rags.

If man' obedience to God is filthy rags then if we substitute "filthy rags" for "obeying" then the following verses now read:

Heb 5:8 though He were a son He learned filthy rags by the things He suffered.
Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that have filthy rags.

2 Thess 1:8 in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who do not have filthy rags
1 Peter 4:17 what is the end of them that have no filthy rags?

Of course one is perverted when they go about preaching a different gospel and God has already said what happens to those who add to and take away from His word.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Many things were directed specifically to Israel in the OT, but it doesn't change the fact that even our own righteousness is as a filthy rag. Israel is mainly mentioned in the OT, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those (we) who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31, so yes Isaiah 64:6 is applicable to every person in every nation. None of us are righteous on our own nor are our own works as we become the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus unto good works, 2 Corinthians 5:14-21.

 

[for_his_glory]

Christ dying on the cross paved the way for man to have all his sins taken away. Those who obey Christ are the ones that take advantage of what Christ did on the cross, while those that disobey will miss out on what Christ did on the cross.

Christ dying on the cross>>>CHrist's role in man's salvation
Man obeying Christ (Heb 5:9) >>>man's role in his own salvation

Christ's death on the cross does not unconditionally save men at random but specifically saves those that conditionally obey.

==========


Romans 10:10 is just one verse out of dozens that deal with salvation. Rarely does just one verse exhaust all their is to know about a subject and Romans 10:10 does not tell us everything about salvation. When one examines "all the counsel of od" (Acts 20:27) one finds hearing (Romans 10:17) belief (Jn 8:24) repentance (Mt 10:32-33) and baptism (Mk 16:16) are necessary for one to gain initial salvation. One verse theologies will fail.

=====

Did the 7 year old girl have the mental maturity to understand NT ideas Christ presented? Did she understand what sin is, what NT belief is about? Understand purpose of repentance, confession, baptism? Understand about what living a godly life is about?

How many of you have gone to Church all your lives just because you were either forced to go by your parents when you were a child or just thought it was the right thing to do once a week? How many times have you walked out the door after the service ended not even remembering what the sermon was, but at least feeling good about yourself for going in the first place? Do you even know what the meaning of salvation is in your own life and that it’s a personal relationship with Jesus? How do you know you are truly saved by Gods grace and mercy that brings salvation to all who will hear God’s calling and act to that calling? Did you accept Jesus because you were told to out of force or did you accept Jesus out of your own freewill to have that personal relationship with him? Before you answer any of these questions think about them first and be truthful with yourself as only God knows the hearts of his children who are called by his name. Our emotions can be deceiving at times when we allow ourselves to get caught up in the moment, but yet can leave us empty inside when we are left apart from that emotional atmosphere as we go back to our homes.

Gods’ plan of salvation is for everyone who answers his call as we are all sinners and it is only by Gods grace that we are saved for there is nothing we can do of ourselves. Many, like myself, have come to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior without much knowledge and we need to gain knowledge, wisdom and understanding of Gods word by studying through his Spirit teaching us all things rightly dividing the word of truth as we know Gods word does not come back void and will accomplish that which he pleases.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many do not understand that NT belief includes repentance and baptism, not just belief alone. The jailer was not commanded to believe alone.

There is but one way to be saved:

--When those in Acts 2 asked what they must do, they were commanded to repent and be baptized.

--Again since there is just one way to be saved, any surprise then the jailer also upon hearing the word believed, repented and was baptized?

Belief repentance baptism are all commanded making them necessary part of salvation.

Acts 2:14-41 is Peter's sermon at Pentecost as he spoke about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the great and notable day of the return of Christ. Peter than proceeds to teach about the life of Jesus and His resurrection. Those who heard Peter preaching ask him what they should do. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (forgiveness of sin), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Nothing they did was of works, but obedience after receiving the word. They first accepted God's grace through the mercy of Christ and then they repented and were baptized in that order.

There is only one way to be saved, John 14:6, but many try to climb up some other way as being a work based salvation, John 10:1. Faith is necessary for salvation. Good works alone does not merit salvation as no one can buy their way to heaven. It takes faith and belief in Christ Jesus as what the jailer had received by hearing the word preached to him and then he and his household were saved, not of works lest they should boast.

 

[for_his_glory]

In order to enter the Kingdom of God we must be Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-7. How do we come to this Spiritual rebirth is by a mustard seed of faith by God's free gift of grace through Christ Jesus in whom we first started to believe in Him. John 3:5-7, 16; Matthew 13:31, 32; Ephesians 2:8-10.

All it takes is a mustard seed of faith in the beginning to believe in Christ and from there we let that seed mature as we water it with the word of God as we learn to walk in obedience to His commands.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Acts 2:14-41 is Peter's sermon at Pentecost as he spoke about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the great and notable day of the return of Christ. Peter than proceeds to teach about the life of Jesus and His resurrection. Those who heard Peter preaching ask him what they should do. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (forgiveness of sin), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Nothing they did was of works, but obedience after receiving the word. They first accepted God's grace through the mercy of Christ and then they repented and were baptized in that order.

There is only one way to be saved, John 14:6, but many try to climb up some other way as being a work based salvation, John 10:1. Faith is necessary for salvation. Good works alone does not merit salvation as no one can buy their way to heaven. It takes faith and belief in Christ Jesus as what the jailer had received by hearing the word preached to him and then he and his household were saved, not of works lest they should boast.

Repentance and submitting to baptism are something done, obedient works and not just ideas thought about in the mind.

I agree there is no work anyone can do to earn their way into heaven for no one's work will be perfectly, flawlessly sinless. Nor has God required sinless perfection but a simple faithful obedience to receive HIs free gift of salvation.

The jailer's (nor those in Acts 2) obedience in repenting and submitting to baptism did not earn salvation but necessary conditions God has place upon HIs free gift of salvation.

As far as boasting:

Obedience to the will of God is not something one can boast about for one will not be perfect in His obedience therefore he is still in need of grace.

On the other hand, if one could be perfect in his obedience then that would be a work he could boast about. Romans 4:4 " Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. " Paul's point here in verse 4 is if one (Abraham) could work and keep the law perfectly then his reward is something owed to him and not of grace. Grace is for those who sin yet if one was perfectly sinless in his works he would have no sin therefore would not be in need of grace. Therefore his reward is owed to him for his perfect sinless works.

The idea of 'faith only' has some serious flaws about works.