Bible Study Faith in Christ

[Ernest T. Bass]

How many of you have gone to Church all your lives just because you were either forced to go by your parents when you were a child or just thought it was the right thing to do once a week? How many times have you walked out the door after the service ended not even remembering what the sermon was, but at least feeling good about yourself for going in the first place? Do you even know what the meaning of salvation is in your own life and that it’s a personal relationship with Jesus? How do you know you are truly saved by Gods grace and mercy that brings salvation to all who will hear God’s calling and act to that calling? Did you accept Jesus because you were told to out of force or did you accept Jesus out of your own freewill to have that personal relationship with him? Before you answer any of these questions think about them first and be truthful with yourself as only God knows the hearts of his children who are called by his name. Our emotions can be deceiving at times when we allow ourselves to get caught up in the moment, but yet can leave us empty inside when we are left apart from that emotional atmosphere as we go back to our homes.

Gods’ plan of salvation is for everyone who answers his call as we are all sinners and it is only by Gods grace that we are saved for there is nothing we can do of ourselves. Many, like myself, have come to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior without much knowledge and we need to gain knowledge, wisdom and understanding of Gods word by studying through his Spirit teaching us all things rightly dividing the word of truth as we know Gods word does not come back void and will accomplish that which he pleases.

My point about the 7 year old is one cannot be pleasing to God if one does not understand what they are doing or why they are doing it.
Heb 11:6 " But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Having faith requires a certain level of mental acuity which I do not know if a 7 year old would have. But I do understand people mentally mature a different rates.
No one is born a sinner, but born innocent and must go through the process of learning right from wrong (Isa 7:15-16) then becomes accountable to God's law. Romans 7:8-9 Paul says of himself that sin was something that sprang up in him later in life, not at birth. Is a 7 year old still innocent before God of does a 7 year old have the mental ability to understand what is necessary to be understood. Yet one who is of an age of accountability to God cannot be saved in ignorance Eph 5:17; Romans 10:3;

 

[jerry63935]

My point about the 7 year old is one cannot be pleasing to God if one does not understand what they are doing or why they are doing it.

i beg your pardon she understood the need to be saved that is all you need to know by grace through faith accept it. a child will accept it before a adult will

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Of course one is perverted when they go about preaching a different gospel and God has already said what happens to those who add to and take away from His word.

My point was about changing the word of God by adding to it or subtracting from it. ADDDING the word 'alone' to certain verse, as Martin Luther did, is CHANGING God's word. For "faith" and "faith only" are NOT the same thing for faith justifies where faith only does not.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Many things were directed specifically to Israel in the OT, but it doesn't change the fact that even our own righteousness is as a filthy rag. Israel is mainly mentioned in the OT, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those (we) who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31, so yes Isaiah 64:6 is applicable to every person in every nation. None of us are righteous on our own nor are our own works as we become the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus unto good works, 2 Corinthians 5:14-21.

The context in Isa 64:6-7 is specifically about Israel who had rebelled against God (Isa 1:2) all Israel did was an abomination before God (Isa 1:10-17) therefore cannot be applied universally for not everyone has rebelled against God therefore in sin and iniquity disobeying God as Israel was at that time.

Those that are obeying God, their righteousness is not as filthy rags before God. Isa 64:5 seems to never get mentioned which says God meets, helps those that worketh righteousness and are not treated as filthy rags. If man's obedience/righteousness were just filthy rags, then why does God tell man to 'work out your own salvation'?
If obedient works are equal to filthy rags then filthy rags must be able to 'work out your salvation' per Phil 2:12. How could men as Abel (Heb 11:4) be called 'righteous' if all his obedience were just filthy rags before God?

Man's "own righteousness" cannot save him, the Jews in Rom 10:3 were lost for "going about establishing their OWN righteousness". Man's own righteousness would be as filthy rags before God. But those that obey God are doing GOD'S righteousness which is not filthy rags before God.

Note in Romans 10:3 there are two different works mentioned in this verse:
1) establishing their OWN righteousness ( does not save)
2) obeying GOD'S righteousness (does save)

#1 is filthy rags before God #2 is not.

Man doing his OWN self-righteousness, as the Jews were doing, is filthy rags but nowhere in the Bible is it said those who are doing God's will that their obedience to God is ever called filthy rags. Those that are obedient to God are in Christ therefore clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness and are then seen as perfect by God through Christ..."we are made righteous with God through Christ" 2 Cor 5:21 and it takes obedience to be in Christ.

Those obedient to Acts 2:38 are doing GOD'S righteousness that God commanded and not their OWN righteousness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

i beg your pardon she understood the need to be saved that is all you need to know by grace through faith accept it. a child will accept it before a adult will

If one does not understand about what sin is or what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession and baptism are about then one cannot be saved.

 

[jerry63935]

a 7 year old still innocent before God of does a 7 year old have the mental ability to understand what is necessary to be understood. Yet one who is of an age of accountability to God cannot be saved in ignorance Eph 5:17; Romans 10:3;

this is man made stuff .the words of age of accountability is not mentioned in the Bible .the age depends upon the individual .if a 7 year old can understand the need to be saved they can be

 

[jerry63935]

what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession

let me help your error the night i got saved i knew absolutely nothing and i do mean nothing about what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession . i only know that i was lost and on the road to hell . when paul wrote whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . it does not say have a full understanding
Romans 10:9

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

 

[jerry63935]

f one does not understand about what sin is

the Holy spirit convicts and draws and makes to understand

 

[for_his_glory]

Repentance and submitting to baptism are something done, obedient works and not just ideas thought about in the mind.

I agree there is no work anyone can do to earn their way into heaven for no one's work will be perfectly, flawlessly sinless. Nor has God required sinless perfection but a simple faithful obedience to receive HIs free gift of salvation.

The jailer's (nor those in Acts 2) obedience in repenting and submitting to baptism did not earn salvation but necessary conditions God has place upon HIs free gift of salvation.

As far as boasting:

Obedience to the will of God is not something one can boast about for one will not be perfect in His obedience therefore he is still in need of grace.

On the other hand, if one could be perfect in his obedience then that would be a work he could boast about. Romans 4:4 " Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. " Paul's point here in verse 4 is if one (Abraham) could work and keep the law perfectly then his reward is something owed to him and not of grace. Grace is for those who sin yet if one was perfectly sinless in his works he would have no sin therefore would not be in need of grace. Therefore his reward is owed to him for his perfect sinless works.

The idea of 'faith only' has some serious flaws about works.

Grace: freely given, unmerited favor, love of God, mercy, clemency, pardon.

No one can earn grace, mercy or pardon as they are a free gift from the love of God as we receive it by faith through belief in Christ Jesus. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father, but through me." It's God that does the work in us through repentance and baptism. Our part is to believe by faith in Christ that is God's free gift of grace.

Repent means to regret or remorse about one's own sin. Repentance is an action or omission that we recognize we are sinners needing God's grace. When Jesus said to repent He was talking about a change of heart toward sin, the world and God that produces the fruits of the Spirit. It's an inner change through the Spiritual rebirth that gives rise to new ways of living that exalt Christ and the gospel. The fruits are the outward result of being made completely different within the Spiritual inner man.

This is what repentance and baptism means, especially when you read Luke 3:1-18 that speaks of repentance, good works and baptism. It has nothing to do with obedient works, but the condition of our heart.

 

[for_his_glory]

My point about the 7 year old is one cannot be pleasing to God if one does not understand what they are doing or why they are doing it.
Heb 11:6 " But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Having faith requires a certain level of mental acuity which I do not know if a 7 year old would have. But I do understand people mentally mature a different rates.
No one is born a sinner, but born innocent and must go through the process of learning right from wrong (Isa 7:15-16) then becomes accountable to God's law. Romans 7:8-9 Paul says of himself that sin was something that sprang up in him later in life, not at birth. Is a 7 year old still innocent before God of does a 7 year old have the mental ability to understand what is necessary to be understood. Yet one who is of an age of accountability to God cannot be saved in ignorance Eph 5:17; Romans 10:3;

Have you ever been in a Sunday school class with 7 year old children? They know more about Jesus then many adults as they know Him in simplicity of His word. They are not clouded with doctrines of man and their theology. There is no such thing as an age of accountability as many adults have not reach that stage yet, or maybe will never reach it.

 

[jerry63935]

If one does not understand about what sin is or what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession and baptism are about then one cannot be saved.

i fear the one who does not understand is you.. why do you ant complicate the plan of salvation. next you will want to do a class on how to be saved and have a B average

 

[for_his_glory]

My point was about changing the word of God by adding to it or subtracting from it. ADDDING the word 'alone' to certain verse, as Martin Luther did, is CHANGING God's word. For "faith" and "faith only" are NOT the same thing for faith justifies where faith only does not.



The context in Isa 64:6-7 is specifically about Israel who had rebelled against God (Isa 1:2) all Israel did was an abomination before God (Isa 1:10-17) therefore cannot be applied universally for not everyone has rebelled against God therefore in sin and iniquity disobeying God as Israel was at that time.

Those that are obeying God, their righteousness is not as filthy rags before God. Isa 64:5 seems to never get mentioned which says God meets, helps those that worketh righteousness and are not treated as filthy rags. If man's obedience/righteousness were just filthy rags, then why does God tell man to 'work out your own salvation'?
If obedient works are equal to filthy rags then filthy rags must be able to 'work out your salvation' per Phil 2:12. How could men as Abel (Heb 11:4) be called 'righteous' if all his obedience were just filthy rags before God?

Man's "own righteousness" cannot save him, the Jews in Rom 10:3 were lost for "going about establishing their OWN righteousness". Man's own righteousness would be as filthy rags before God. But those that obey God are doing GOD'S righteousness which is not filthy rags before God.

Note in Romans 10:3 there are two different works mentioned in this verse:
1) establishing their OWN righteousness ( does not save)
2) obeying GOD'S righteousness (does save)

#1 is filthy rags before God #2 is not.

Man doing his OWN self-righteousness, as the Jews were doing, is filthy rags but nowhere in the Bible is it said those who are doing God's will that their obedience to God is ever called filthy rags. Those that are obedient to God are in Christ therefore clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness and are then seen as perfect by God through Christ..."we are made righteous with God through Christ" 2 Cor 5:21 and it takes obedience to be in Christ.

Those obedient to Acts 2:38 are doing GOD'S righteousness that God commanded and not their OWN righteousness.

Martin Luther translated the Bible into German as he left out the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation because they didn't fit his teaching of saved by faith alone without works, but later forced to include them.

Works follow after faith as it is faith alone being that of Christ Jesus who is our faith and His finished works on the cross. The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but yet is described throughout the scriptures.

The Torah being a foreshadow of Christ even in the beginning is about Israel and God's instruction in righteousness. That instruction is the same yesterday, today and forever. God's word never changes even though man tries to change it. God's instruction to Israel is just the same for all whether they be Jew or Gentile as there is no more Jew or Gentile as we are all one in the Lord by faith and through faith that is Christ Jesus.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It's our obedience to God's commands which leads to God's righteousness found in us as we submit to His will. Obedience teaches us how to grow closer to the Lord, to grow in faith and relationshp with Christ, Genesis 15:6.

 

[for_his_glory]

If one does not understand about what sin is or what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession and baptism are about then one cannot be saved.

So you understood all of this before you asked Jesus into your heart? That goes against Ephesians 2:8.

 

[for_his_glory]

the Holy spirit convicts and draws and makes to understand

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

this is man made stuff .the words of age of accountability is not mentioned in the Bible .the age depends upon the individual .if a 7 year old can understand the need to be saved they can be

"Trinity" is not in the Bible but the idea is found in the Bible.
Likewise, the exact phrase 'age of accountability' is not in the Bible but the idea certainly is there in Romans 7:8-9:

".... For without the law sin was dead. "
" For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. "

Paul begins by saying without law sin was dead, that is, sin cannot do anything if there is no law to be transgressed. Paul then says there was a time in his life he was "alive without the law once" meaning when Paul was an infant/child he was without law therefore sin was dead to him. Not until he learned right from wrong, sinned against God then sin sprang up in him.

"I was alive without law once" he was not born dead in sin as Calvinism claims but sin was dead to Paul as a child.

"sin revived" sin then came to life, no more childhood innocence but became accountable to God.

"and I died" again, he was not born spiritually dead but became accountable to God's law, sinned and then died spiritually later in his life, not at birth.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

let me help your error the night i got saved i knew absolutely nothing and i do mean nothing about what righteousness is or what faith, repentance, confession . i only know that i was lost and on the road to hell . when paul wrote whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . it does not say have a full understanding
Romans 10:9

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

"Calling on the name of the Lord" means doing what the Lord has said to do, which includes believe Jn 8:24 repent Lk 13:3 confess Mt 10:32-33 be baptized Mk 16:16.

How can one repent, confess or be baptized of one knows nothing about these things?

Romans 10:9 is not the only verse that deals with the issue of salvation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

the Holy spirit convicts and draws and makes to understand

God, the Holy Spirit draw men by the word that was authored by the Holy Spirit (John 6:44-45). Men then can read and understand (Eph 3:4). Man's understanding is not dependant upon the Holy Spirit. If so, then those that lack understanding would be due to the failure of the Holy Spirit in making them understand.

 

[jerry63935]

feel free to hold on to your doctrine.... i hope you find home plate while your out in left field sin is dead till we realize we need to be saved . you put limits on the power of God . your not the Holy Spirit the spirit quickens brings life the flesh profits nothing. once this young girl realized the need for salvation and asked Jesus into her heart . SHE BECAME ALIVE IN CHRIST a new creation 2 corth 5:17 how soon we forget verse 21 For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[jerry63935]

"Calling on the name of the Lord" means doing what the Lord has said to do, which includes believe Jn 8:24 repent Lk 13:3 confess Mt 10:32-33 be baptized Mk 16:16.

How can one repent, confess or be baptized of one knows nothing about these things?

Romans 10:9 is not the only verse that deals with the issue of salvation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Grace: freely given, unmerited favor, love of God, mercy, clemency, pardon.

No one can earn grace, mercy or pardon as they are a free gift from the love of God as we receive it by faith through belief in Christ Jesus. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father, but through me." It's God that does the work in us through repentance and baptism. Our part is to believe by faith in Christ that is God's free gift of grace.

Repent means to regret or remorse about one's own sin. Repentance is an action or omission that we recognize we are sinners needing God's grace. When Jesus said to repent He was talking about a change of heart toward sin, the world and God that produces the fruits of the Spirit. It's an inner change through the Spiritual rebirth that gives rise to new ways of living that exalt Christ and the gospel. The fruits are the outward result of being made completely different within the Spiritual inner man.

This is what repentance and baptism means, especially when you read Luke 3:1-18 that speaks of repentance, good works and baptism. It has nothing to do with obedient works, but the condition of our heart.

I agree no one can earn/merit grace. it is a free gift. But it is a CONDITIONAL free gift therefore to receive race one must meet the conditions (obedience) God has placed upon it.

You post "when Jesus said to repent He was talking about a change of heart". Can one be saved while remaining impenitent, unchanged? How can one repent if he does not even know what repentance is?

God has commanded men to repent (Acts 2:38) those that do are obeying, meeting necessary conditions God has placed upon His free gift of grace. Repentance is a work (Matt 12:41 cf Jonah 3:10). Submitting to baptism is something one does but earns/merits nothing. Just as Naaman dipping in the river was a work, but did not earn his gracious healing for the work in dipping was a CONDITION God places upon His free gift of healing.

When people come to accept that free gifts can come with conditions and working to met those conditions does NOT earn/merit the free gift then they will be able to easily understand about salvation.

Again, John 6:27 Jesus GIVES everlasting life meaning it is free. Yet at the same time Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life for everlasting life is a free gift that comes with conditions and working (believing) to meet the conditions does not, cannot earn the free gift.

 

[jerry63935]

Man's understanding is not dependant upon the Holy Spirit

realy ? THE SPIRIT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT born of the spirit
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.