Faith without works........is Faith.

[childeye]

I assume and hope this is a poor choice of words?

I don't deserve my wife. I'm not sure that's a good choice of words either.

 

[childeye]

I assume and hope this is a poor choice of words?

How's this? I find little pleasure in worldly indulgences. For example, I eat and drink for sustenance and not for pleasure. But my wife cooks to please me and so I indulge as much as I am able.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't recall choosing to make it or not. I simply like talking to others about God.

So you made a choice to talk to others about God. You didn't choose to mow the lawn or dig the garden or go shopping. You chose to talk to others about God. It was a willful decision you made??

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As long as someone in the world is starving or cold and I am full and warm, I am in fact sinning. I see no way around that.

Why do you willfully sin this way?

 

[childeye]

Why do you willfully sin this way?

How exactly is that willfully sinning?

 

[childeye]

So you made a choice to talk to others about God. You didn't choose to mow the lawn or dig the garden or go shopping. You chose to talk to others about God. It was a willful decision you made??

Yes I didn't choose to mow the lawn or dig the garden, for I desired to talk about God.

 

[OzSpen]

Yes I didn't choose to mow the lawn or dig the garden, for I desired to talk about God.

You 'desired to talk about God' instead of doing the lawn or garden. Whichever way you turn the words, you have still made a willful decision to talk about God and not mow the lawn or dig the garden.

For the moment, I've made a willful decision (chose) to interact with you instead of continuing to write a submission to our federal government on halal certification. I've made a free will decision (I chose) to communicate with you rather than do the other task, which can wait until later in the day.

We should be getting back to the topic: Is faith without works faith? Yes, it is (according to James 2:14-26 ESV). However, this faith will be demonstrated by the works that it does.

 

[childeye]

You 'desired to talk about God' instead of doing the lawn or garden. Whichever way you turn the words, you have still made a willful decision to talk about God and not mow the lawn or dig the garden.

Actually, I didn't even consider mowing the lawn or work in the garden, or anything else, because I desired to talk about God.

For the moment, I've made a willful decision (chose) to interact with you instead of continuing to write a submission to our federal government on halal certification. I've made a free will decision (I chose) to communicate with you rather than do the other task, which can wait until later in the day.

Oz, I know we make decisions. Life is always choosing to do something. But we can't choose to be righteous apart from God. Do you believe righteousness is a gift?

 

[childeye]

We should be getting back to the topic: Is faith without works faith? Yes, it is (according to James 2:14-26 ESV). However, this faith will be demonstrated by the works that it does.

Indeed, there is a difference between works of righteousness by faith and works of righteousness through the law. For the righteousness of faith acknowledges God's Spirit is necessary to be righteous.

 

[OzSpen]

Indeed, there is a difference between works of righteousness by faith and works of righteousness through the law. For the righteousness of faith acknowledges God's Spirit is necessary to be righteous.

My understanding is that works of righteousness are forbidden for faith, but works of righteousness are required to demonstrate faith. See James 2:14-26 (ESV).

 

[dadof10]

I did respond. This just means we admit we have sin, not that we volunteer for it. We're born into sin through the first Adam. And we're born into righteousness through the second Adam. Romans 5:19.


I think my view squares perfectly with 1 John 1:8 as well as all of scripture. However I don't think you're contemplating the semantics above in number 3. When I say I don't identify me with the sin in me, that is in my members, that does not mean I don't sin and never sin. It simply means I don't want to sin.

Let me discuss this further. There are sins of omission and commission. As long as someone in the world is starving or cold and I am full and warm, I am in fact sinning. I see no way around that. I do take that personally, but not in any prideful manner that it is my sin that I own, but because people are suffering and someone needs to help them. When do I do enough? There is never enough. So I'm always sinning in some degree.

Ok, I just can't keep up anymore. Your sin belongs to no one, you don't sin in the moral purview, the sin in your members is not your sin...now you DO have sin, not only occasionally (I guess?), but at every second of your life, as long as there is one hungry person in the world? I'm out...

 

[childeye]

My understanding is that works of righteousness are forbidden for faith, but works of righteousness are required to demonstrate faith. See James 2:14-26 (ESV).

Well then let me put it this way is that faith in you, or God's Spirit of Love?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How exactly is that willfully sinning?

You are a believer, and you know you're sinning, and you're not doing what you think you're supposed to do concerning that sin.

"17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." (James 4:17 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But we can't choose to be righteous apart from God.

We can choose whether or not we are going to seek the righteousness of God:

7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you." (James 4:7-10 NASB)

"(S)eek first His kingdom and His righteousness" (Matthew 6:33 NASB)

Loads of choice here in regard to choosing the righteousness of God; seek, submit, resist, draw near, cleanse your hands, purify your hearts, mourn, weep, humble yourselves....

 

[childeye]

Ok, I just can't keep up anymore. Your sin belongs to no one, you don't sin in the moral purview, the sin in your members is not your sin...now you DO have sin, not only occasionally (I guess?), but at every second of your life, as long as there is one hungry person in the world? I'm out...

Hey, I think you're keeping up great. Let me try to clarify. We all inherit sin through Adam. And we inherit righteousness through Christ. So in Christ, it's not just my sin that belongs to no one, but the sins of the whole world belong to no one. The Christ who definitely didn't deserve them, took them upon himself. And such is His Love. But I notice that this blood is sprinkled upon us who come for a new and pure heart, and there are two ways to interpret this blood sprinkled upon our hearts. Either Christ died to save us from what he feels we didn't deserve, or... he spared us from what we did deserve, or something in between. So it is, that between those two narratives we are navigating the terminology.

 

[childeye]

You are a believer, and you know you're sinning, and you're not doing what you think you're supposed to do concerning that sin.

"17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." (James 4:17 NASB)

Perhaps I don't have perfect faith yet, ever thought of that?

 

[childeye]

We can choose whether or not we are going to seek the righteousness of God:

We can't choose whether or not we are going to seek the righteousness of God when we think we sin freely and can be righteous anytime we decide to.

7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you." (James 4:7-10 NASB)

Loads of choice here in regard to choosing the righteousness of God; seek, submit, resist, draw near, cleanse your hands, purify your hearts, mourn, weep, humble yourselves....

I was just pondering this very scripture before you posted this, as a matter of fact.
Funny, I don't see any choices, I see sound counsel.

 

[OzSpen]

Well then let me put it this way is that faith in you, or God's Spirit of Love?

Straw man!

 

[NBTrollin]

Let me ask this question: What good is faith, without proof?

 

[electricaluser]

Let me ask this question: What good is faith, without proof?

Yeah what good is it. I'd like to know that too.