False Doctrine

[unred typo]

Solo wrote: False teachers and a gospel other than the gospel of Jesus Christ, is easy to discern as the Holy Spirit gives guidence. Those that think that they are eternally secure by their works do not understand what Jesus teaches in John 3 about being born of God. There are those that never were born of God whom Jesus will say that he NEVER knew them.

Exactly, those who think they are born again simply by mouthing a few of the right words and believing a few facts about God and the sacrifice of his Son for their sins, “inviting him into their heart,†when they have not turned from their sin, nor made a decision to live according to the doctrines that Jesus taught, do not have life. God’s word was made flesh and spoke words of life to those who will believe what he said to do and do it.

This great salvation was made possible by the gift of his blood and even if we gave our body to be burned a martyr‘s death, it would not be enough to reverse the curse of sin on our life, so we could never boast of our salvation, no matter how many works of faith and love we do. God takes those who follow Christ and live as he did in love, faith, mercy, humility and truth, and makes them born again, in his time, according to his will, not ours.

I think of two places where those who believed they were eternally saved are cast away. In Matthew 7, those who prophesied in his name are surprised to find that their religious ministry did not save them. They talked about the kingdom but did not obey the king:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In those chapters that Jesus says “I never knew you,†notice that those he condemns are those who worked iniquity.

In Matthew 25 Jesus says those who helped him are the ones who helped the poor and needy, not those who did mighty religious works, built huge churches and ministries that indulge the self indulgent.

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.


Solo wrote: Only those with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can discern the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ; all others remain in the dark until the Holy Spirit draws them to the Father through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said if he be lifted up, he would draw all men to himself. He was talking about the cross.



Solo wrote: Those that truly have the love of God will shout from the roof tops of the lies and deceptions of the enemy so that those who are lost can be saved.
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 2:4

That's probably true. There are those who believe they are doing God’s who will actually blow up people, places and things but only those who are living according to Jesus’ law of love are doing God’s will.

 

[Solo]

Solo wrote: False teachers and a gospel other than the gospel of Jesus Christ, is easy to discern as the Holy Spirit gives guidence. Those that think that they are eternally secure by their works do not understand what Jesus teaches in John 3 about being born of God. There are those that never were born of God whom Jesus will say that he NEVER knew them.

Exactly, those who think they are born again simply by mouthing a few of the right words and believing a few facts about God and the sacrifice of his Son for their sins, “inviting him into their heart,†when they have not turned from their sin, nor made a decision to live according to the doctrines that Jesus taught, do not have life. God’s word was made flesh and spoke words of life to those who will believe what he said to do and do it.

This great salvation was made possible by the gift of his blood and even if we gave our body to be burned a martyr‘s death, it would not be enough to reverse the curse of sin on our life, so we could never boast of our salvation, no matter how many works of faith and love we do. God takes those who follow Christ and live as he did in love, faith, mercy, humility and truth, and makes them born again, in his time, according to his will, not ours.

I think of two places where those who believed they were eternally saved are cast away. In Matthew 7, those who prophesied in his name are surprised to find that their religious ministry did not save them. They talked about the kingdom but did not obey the king:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In those chapters that Jesus says “I never knew you,†notice that those he condemns are those who worked iniquity.

Note that Jesus said, "I NEVER Knew you" meaning that they were NEVER born of God.

In Matthew 25 Jesus says those who helped him are the ones who helped the poor and needy, not those who did mighty religious works, built huge churches and ministries that indulge the self indulgent.

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Only those that have been born of God as Jesus explains in John 3 can see and enter the Kingdom of God. Unless one is born of God as Jesus teaches, one cannot do any of God's Work but only works of righteousness through the Holy Spirit. Walk not in the flesh to fulfill the lusts of the flesh but walk in the spirit to do the work of God.

Solo wrote: Only those with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can discern the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ; all others remain in the dark until the Holy Spirit draws them to the Father through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said if he be lifted up, he would draw all men to himself. He was talking about the cross.

Many are called and drawn but few are chosen. Notice Jesus' teaching where mankind loves darkness because the light manifests their evil.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:14-21

Solo wrote: Those that truly have the love of God will shout from the roof tops of the lies and deceptions of the enemy so that those who are lost can be saved.
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 2:4

That's probably true. There are those who believe they are doing God’s who will actually blow up people, places and things but only those who are living according to Jesus’ law of love are doing God’s will.

God's love is manifested towards those that are chosen by the Holy Spirit to become born of God. God's wrath is poured out on those that do not believe. All are condemned already, and those that hear the Word of God through those that preach and teach the Word of God can be given faith to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. False prophets and false teachers are at enmity with God and will distort the truth to lead those that are drawn and called away from the truth. Believers must call out to those when this wickedness occurs, out of love for the brethren, and those that will become saved.
.

 

[Georges]

Paul's work is the inspired work of our Lord,

Really?....if it conflicts with Jesus, James, Peter, John and Jude...is it really inspired of God?

and this putting down Paul is going to have to stop. Georges if you think that Paul is false, thats on you, and everyone knows how you feel about Paul.

Lewis...is Paul above scrutiny?

Act 17:10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Lewis.....Should Paul not be compared to Scripture?

So now because everyone knows how you feel, I want it to stop.

You have the power at you fingertip to kick me off anytime you want to Lewis...I present (truthfully) questions concerning Paul and his good standing with the Apostles...and Christ. If you want to kick me off because of my concern over Paul...I consider myself in good company...James, Peter, John and Jude had the same concerns...as I had presented with their letters..

Because you will not be allowed to poison the minds of our up and coming Christians, or our babes in Christ.

Prove me wrong Lewis....I'll admit it if you prove me wrong..and I will apologize to the forumland most humbly when you do so. I'm not proud enough (unlike others in forumland) to shun an admition of error when called on it...But please, threats without a credible rebut?

The Bible says that all scripture is by the inspiration of God.

Better review what that means Lewis....who said that and what is the Scripture that that author was referring to? What qualifies as Scripture?

I think you will find that the OT was the "scripture" of the time...the NT canon wasn't fully developed for another 300 + years...

And because the Bible says that, you don't have a leg to stand on with this issue of Paul.

Got the pdf book that many have recieved from me that quite easily proves that wrong...I will email it to you if you like...gladly...but I will not unless you request it in pm....I believe the only one of my "antagonists" that have not asked for it is Solo...You read it and tell me there isn't cause for concern....because it uses only scripture to prove what I have claimed....

And Peter said that holy men of God wrote this stuff as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Again...Peter is talking about the OT writers...

So do not attempt to change peoples minds and turn them against the Pauline Epistles.

I'll put the same challenge to you that I've put to others...read the pdf completely...it is an easy read of 18 chapters that backs up what I say...and if you read it and want me to cease and dessist I will.

Lewis........read the pdf....it will be no harm to you either way....but at least you will have the reason why I have stated what I have and if there is any merit to it....

 

[unred typo]

Solo, I posted this before but I would like to ask you. Is there more that I need to declare and believe for you to say that I am saved than the following: ?

I believe Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified for my sins as well as the sins of the world, was raised again and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven.

Since he is the only begotten son of God, through whom the worlds were created, we worship him and honor him as we honor the Father.

I believe that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself on the cross.

I believe the only way to be saved is by trusting in the blood of Jesus to cleanse my sin.

I believe that when I confess and forsake my sin, the Holy Spirit will cleanse me from all unrighteousness. I believe Baptism by immersion pictures this and shows others that I believe it.

I believe that there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved than the name of Jesus and there are no other doctrines than what he taught that we need to follow to bring us into a right relationship with God.

I believe that the salvation that God offers he offers to us out of his mercy and not because of any good deeds that we have done or because of any goodness in us, but because of the fact that he made us and loves us.

I believe that unless I forgive everyone who sins against me, neither will my heavenly father forgive me.

I believe that only those who have the Son of God have life and those who have not the Son have not life.

I believe Jesus has given us commands and good works that we must do while we live here on earth. Without enough love and faith to believe him to do what he commands, we are not saved but abide in death.

I believe that if I do not do what Jesus says, then he is not my Lord.

I believe that those that abide in love, abide in God and God abides in them. If the spirit which raised up Jesus abides in them, he will also raise up their mortal bodies.

One last question. If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

 

[JM]

If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

no.

 

[Lewis]

Got the pdf book that many have recieved from me that quite easily proves that wrong...I will email it to you if you like...gladly...but I will not unless you request it in pm....I believe the only one of my "antagonists" that have not asked for it is Solo...You read it and tell me there isn't cause for concern....because it uses only scripture to prove what I have claimed....

That is because Solo and I believe with all our heart, in all 66 books of the Bible. And we will let nobody and I mean nobody turn us around.

 

[Georges]

Got the pdf book that many have recieved from me that quite easily proves that wrong...I will email it to you if you like...gladly...but I will not unless you request it in pm....I believe the only one of my "antagonists" that have not asked for it is Solo...You read it and tell me there isn't cause for concern....because it uses only scripture to prove what I have claimed....

That is because Solo and I believe with all our heart, in all 66 books of the Bible. And we will let nobody and I mean nobody turn us around.

Well I have my own thought's about the first statement and it is both of your loss....but anyway, I once thought as you...up until recently, even debated heavily...in favor of all 66. Actually, the pdf dedicates a portion to why all 66 books should be included...

BTW, It isn't fair of you to condemn me without looking at it...

 

[unred typo]

JM wrote: "No." in answer to my question if I repent of my sins and confess them, would God forgie me....Now i wonder....

Do we have the same Bible?

Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Luke 5:20
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

James 5:15
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Mine says if I confess my sins, he will forgive me.

 

[Georges]

That's what it says in the OT also....

Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.

 

[unred typo]

That's what it says in the OT also....

Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.

I guess God needs to consult with JM, instead of making up his own rules. :wink:

 

[mutzrein]

If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

no.

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

 

[SputnikBoy]

If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

no.

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

Hmmm . . .just what I was thinking too, mutz. Where do some of these people get off?

By the way, George, thanks for the PDF ...I haven't read it yet but I will. I may not - or I may - agree with you on your views about Paul but I sure as heck stand by your right to have such views. What in God's name is going on here when some Christians get so uptight and quake in their boots whenever someone may question the Bible or its authors?

 

[JM]

That's what it says in the OT also....

Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.

I guess God needs to consult with JM, instead of making up his own rules. :wink:

Or, maybe we can sit in a circle and sing kumbaya because doctrines and correct belief really doesn’t matter?

The Christian faith isn’t about what we can reduce it to, it’s about the fullness of Christ and His revelation…which is why the old creed states, “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the universal faithâ€Â….and…â€ÂAnd the universal faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity.â€Â

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

Keep in mind that attacking the Trinity is a hostile act toward the faith, and why is it so? Because an understanding of the nature of God is essential to the Christian faith, it’s a central doctrine and relates to everything we do. Example: we pray to the God the Father by the power of God the Spirit in the name of God the Son.

Hmmm . . .just what I was thinking too, mutz. Where do some of these people get off?

I get off on doctrine because it’s eternal and not relative to the individual, you should try it sometime...

jm

 

[mutzrein]

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

Keep in mind that attacking the Trinity is a hostile act toward the faith, and why is it so? Because an understanding of the nature of God is essential to the Christian faith, it’s a central doctrine and relates to everything we do. Example: we pray to the God the Father by the power of God the Spirit in the name of God the Son.

jm

JM - How are we made righteous? By adherance to a doctrine or by faith in Christ?

 

[Imagican]

That's what it says in the OT also....

Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.

I guess God needs to consult with JM, instead of making up his own rules. :wink:

Or, maybe we can sit in a circle and sing kumbaya because doctrines and correct belief really doesn’t matter?

The Christian faith isn’t about what we can reduce it to, it’s about the fullness of Christ and His revelation…which is why the old creed states, “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the universal faithâ€Â….and…â€ÂAnd the universal faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity.â€Â

It ISN'T about 'dictating' to others either. It IS more about reducing than it is 'creating'. For if we 'reduce' it to it's most basic principle it IS what matters MOST. LOVE. It IS about the example that God and Christ have offered us and that is NOT what YOU are attempting to do. You would have the guts to make such statements as that offered above? You are a 'braver' man than I JM. But here's what I think;

I think that ANYONE that would offer that they have the ability to JUDGE AS GOD, is following a 'different' spirit than I. To even make such statements indicates that there are CERTAINLY more than ONE god out there, willing such sentiment in the hearts of those that would attempt to condemn their brothers and sisters simply because they don't accept the 'same' understanding that you offer. And this understanding of which I speak?


[edit: hostile comments to the SOF.]

I am NOT denying the deity of Christ. I have openly admitted over and over again that Christ IS a 'part' of God. I am a 'part' of my father JUST as Christ IS a 'part' of His. 'Trinity' does NOT simply 'explain' this, it ALTERS what we have been given into 'something' NEW. It demands that to 'accept' it, one MUST believe that Jesus IS God. Not simply a 'part' of the Godhead, but THE GODHEAD ITSELF. This is NOT clearly indicated in scripture. Therefore I, for one, reject this 'man-made' doctrine.

And the strangest thing about this doctrine is the vehemence and anger that those that accept it offer to those that don't. I have yet to witness those that don't accept this doctrine accusing others of 'being lost' or 'unforgiven' for accepting and promoting this 'man-made' doctrine. But I have witnessed outright persecution towards some very 'gifted' individuals ALL for the 'sake' of this 'doctrine of man'.

I am NOT accusing those that believe Christ IS God of such behavior. But 'trinity' itself seems to elicite some VERY negative emotions in those that accept and defend it, at times. This is NOT Christlike in the least. It runs more along the lines of Godlike. Those accepting it and defending it begin, it seems, to believe that they are 'better' than others somehow. That 'their' belief in this doctrine somehow makes them CAPABLE of judging others or condemning them. JUST like the 'fathers' of this doctrine, they forsake the love that has been commanded of them and offer instead, condemnation that they are NOT capable of fulfilling and were NEVER meant to offer to begin with.

And I offer this in closing; Any that deny what I have stated here OR TAKE OFFENSE over it, do so at their own peril. For I have offered NOTHING that 'should' be offensive to ANY. I have simply stated the 'TRUTH'. If that is a 'crime' then I openly admit to being the offender. As God is my witness and Christ as well, ALL that I have stated here is THE TRUTH. Now SEARCH your OWN hearts, if my open and honest communication offers negative emotions in YOUR heart, then I suggest MUCH prayer and suplication, begging the Father to take away that which would allow you to be offended by the 'truth'. If following God IS your 'purpose'. If it's persecuting those that disagree with YOUR understanding, then by all means, do so at your OWN peril. For I will take it EXACTLY as offered and beg for your forgiveness all the while. NOT to be 'silly' but because I DO love my brothers and sisters ENOUGH to offer them the TRUTH at ANY COST. Beware, my friends, for the time is HERE. Time to 'take a stand' or 'fall'. The choice belongs to each and EVERY one of you. NOT 'someone else' YOU. Stand up for the 'truth', or fall with the 'father of lies'. Those, my friends, are the stakes.

MEC

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

Keep in mind that attacking the Trinity is a hostile act toward the faith, and why is it so? Because an understanding of the nature of God is essential to the Christian faith, it’s a central doctrine and relates to everything we do. Example: we pray to the God the Father by the power of God the Spirit in the name of God the Son.


[quote:9223a]Hmmm . . .just what I was thinking too, mutz. Where do some of these people get off?

I get off on doctrine because it’s eternal and not relative to the individual, you should try it sometime...

ONLY IF that doctrine to which you refer IS THE TRUTH. There is MUCH doctrine that is NOT truth. And the FACT that there are SO many different denominations attests to the 'truth' of what I OFFER. From 'your' perspective JM, you remind me of that question that I was ALWAYS asked by my mother when using the excuse, 'well, they were doing it'. Her question? If they decided to drink 'drano' would you do that too? So, you offer "your" understading and insist that ALL must become 'mindless drones' in order to fulfill it in 'your way'? Now THAT seems like a 'cult' to me. Where IS your love brother? By the simple 'tone' of your statements there is NO indication of love of ANYTHING BUT yourself. So smug in your OWN confidence. Wait, my friend, for the day WILL come when that which have become SO comfortable in, WILL be stripped away and you will be NO MORE than ANY OTHER. Just a naked man standing before the judgement seat. How will your heart feel then JM? When it is OPEN LIKE A BOOK? We WILL see.

Oh, and you USE The 'statement of faith' of this forum RATHER than 'follow it'. For to follow it would be to offer that which you have been COMMANDED to offer instead of the condemnation that you seem SO fond of.

MEC

jm[/quote:9223a]

 

[Solo]

Solo, I posted this before but I would like to ask you. Is there more that I need to declare and believe for you to say that I am saved than the following: ?

I believe Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified for my sins as well as the sins of the world, was raised again and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven.

Since he is the only begotten son of God, through whom the worlds were created, we worship him and honor him as we honor the Father.

I believe that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself on the cross.

I believe the only way to be saved is by trusting in the blood of Jesus to cleanse my sin.

I believe that when I confess and forsake my sin, the Holy Spirit will cleanse me from all unrighteousness. I believe Baptism by immersion pictures this and shows others that I believe it.

I believe that there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved than the name of Jesus and there are no other doctrines than what he taught that we need to follow to bring us into a right relationship with God.

I believe that the salvation that God offers he offers to us out of his mercy and not because of any good deeds that we have done or because of any goodness in us, but because of the fact that he made us and loves us.

I believe that unless I forgive everyone who sins against me, neither will my heavenly father forgive me.

I believe that only those who have the Son of God have life and those who have not the Son have not life.

I believe Jesus has given us commands and good works that we must do while we live here on earth. Without enough love and faith to believe him to do what he commands, we are not saved but abide in death.

I believe that if I do not do what Jesus says, then he is not my Lord.

I believe that those that abide in love, abide in God and God abides in them. If the spirit which raised up Jesus abides in them, he will also raise up their mortal bodies.

One last question. If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

Unless one obeys every commandment of God, and is without sin; or unless one is born of God, one cannot be saved. Words of men are meaningless unless they are manifestations of the Holy Spirit. All men that are born of God have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, and the Holy Spirit teaches them all things. If those that are born of God, refuse to walk in the Spirit, and obey God, then they will remain babes in Christ; susceptable to every wind of doctrine in the world.

Those that are born of God are known by Jesus Christ, and those that are born again know Jesus Christ; therefore, an evidence of being born of God is knowing Jesus Christ is God Almighty in His fulness. One who purports to know God the Father and denies that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, doesn't know God the Father.

In answer to your question, it isn't up to what I believe of you whether you are saved or not; it is up to me to proclaim the warning of false doctrines and heresies so that those who seek the love of God are not lied to or deceived by false teachers and false prophets.

Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by Jesus Christ, being born again born of God is the only way one will see and enter the Kingdom of God; and to love God and our neighbors, requires that one walk in obedience to the entire counsel of God, in order to fully love as God loves. Loving of our own interpretation of love without walking in the Spirit and abiding by God's love is not the Agape love that is the love of God.

 

[unred typo]

Solo wrote: Unless one obeys every commandment of God, and is without sin; or unless one is born of God, one cannot be saved. Words of men are meaningless unless they are manifestations of the Holy Spirit. All men that are born of God have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, and the Holy Spirit teaches them all things. If those that are born of God, refuse to walk in the Spirit, and obey God, then they will remain babes in Christ; susceptable to every wind of doctrine in the world.

Where does it say to follow Christ you must be born again? Where does it say that in order to love one another or forgive as you have been forgiven or to be humble or have faith in the promises of God, you must be born again? It doesn’t that I have found. Jesus said that you would have to be born again in order to see and to enter into the kingdom of God. It says that only God will determine when you are ready to be born again, not according to our will. We can only choose to follow and be obedient to God instead of the flesh. The Spirit dwells in those who love one another. ‘Dwelling in us’ is not the same as being born of the spirit, is it, Solo?

Nicodemus said, “…we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.†Jesus then told him that in order for a man to have God‘s ability to heal and do the miracles he did, and in order for anyone to ascend up to heaven he would need to be born of the Spirit. He said, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.â€Â

He also tells him something astounding to me, “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.†I thought Elijah and Enoch were already up there, hanging out with Gabriel and Michael and the rest. Apparently not. Still in the waiting room it seems.



Solo wrote: Those that are born of God are known by Jesus Christ, and those that are born again know Jesus Christ; therefore, an evidence of being born of God is knowing Jesus Christ is God Almighty in His fulness. One who purports to know God the Father and denies that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, doesn't know God the Father.

Scripture please? I think you may have the cart before the horse or are reading something into the verses that isn‘t intended by the context.



Solo wrote: In answer to your question, it isn't up to what I believe of you whether you are saved or not; it is up to me to proclaim the warning of false doctrines and heresies so that those who seek the love of God are not lied to or deceived by false teachers and false prophets.

I wanted to give you a chance to examine what I believe to determine what heresy or false doctrine I held that needed to be warned about or to add any doctrine that I would need in order to be saved. Is anything false that I have stated or have I left anything out that would make me a false teacher if I teach only what is stated in the Bible? Can a person be saved, in your opinion, by what I teach?

Solo wrote: Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by Jesus Christ, being born again born of God is the only way one will see and enter the Kingdom of God; and to love God and our neighbors, requires that one walk in obedience to the entire counsel of God, in order to fully love as God loves. Loving of our own interpretation of love without walking in the Spirit and abiding by God's love is not the Agape love that is the love of God.

I only could make one correction because I haven‘t seen the Bible make Jesus to be God Almighty, but distinctly calls him the Son:
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God Almighty, Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by Jesus Christ, being born again born of God is the only way one will see and enter the Kingdom of God; and to love God and our neighbors, requires that one walk in obedience to the entire counsel of God, in order to fully love as God loves. Loving of our own interpretation of love without walking in the Spirit and abiding by God's love is not the Agape love that is the love of God.
The rest sounds Biblical as written, but probably not in your interpretation. The devil is in the details, huh?

 

[Georges]

If I confess my sins and repent of them and ask God to forgive me, will he forgive me even if I don't believe in the trinity?

no.

Good grief JM. Are you not content with being a moderator? Do you want to stand in place of God and judge the heart of man also?

Hmmm . . .just what I was thinking too, mutz. Where do some of these people get off?

By the way, George, thanks for the PDF ...I haven't read it yet but I will. I may not - or I may - agree with you on your views about Paul but I sure as heck stand by your right to have such views.

And, then again your views may change...the pdf makes a lot of points I think an objective mind would find interesting...and one of the reasons I started the "island" thread....what would Christianity be like if Paul's letters would have been dropped from the NT? Think about it...I think you would have a greatly changed Christianity if you only had the 4 Gospels and the "legitimate" Apostolic letters, plus Revelation.

In fact, we may not have had any letters written if not for Paul...it would appear that Peter, James, John (letters), Jude and Revelation were written in response to Paul's letters...

What in God's name is going on here when some Christians get so uptight and quake in their boots whenever someone may question the Bible or its authors?

I dunno...Searching for the truth by questioning and study has greatly strengthened my faith...I used to quake in my boots once....until it started making sense to me...of course I've had to "retool" and just about drop everything I "learned" from my Lutheran background (not an easy thing to do, probably the most difficult thing I've done in my life), and start from ground zero and relearn Christianity from a Jewish roots position.

I'm not quaking in my boots anymore....

Quaking in thier boots? Would that make them "Quakers"? :-D

 

[Jay T]

It is a general question I suppose. I've never met anyone who KNEW they had false doctrine.

That is why we are to never...rely on what we think, but what the Bible says !

The Bible provides the 'test' as to who has the truth of God......
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

The religious leaders of Christ's day, considered Jesus Christ, a cult, and warned people to stay away from Him.

And satan, who inspires many religous leaders, still continues the same tactics today.

Only those who keep all 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17.....relying upon Jesus Christ, to give them the power, to obey all the commandments of God, will be safe from deception.

 

[Solo]

Solo wrote: Unless one obeys every commandment of God, and is without sin; or unless one is born of God, one cannot be saved. Words of men are meaningless unless they are manifestations of the Holy Spirit. All men that are born of God have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, and the Holy Spirit teaches them all things. If those that are born of God, refuse to walk in the Spirit, and obey God, then they will remain babes in Christ; susceptable to every wind of doctrine in the world.

Where does it say to follow Christ you must be born again? Where does it say that in order to love one another or forgive as you have been forgiven or to be humble or have faith in the promises of God, you must be born again? It doesn’t that I have found. Jesus said that you would have to be born again in order to see and to enter into the kingdom of God. It says that only God will determine when you are ready to be born again, not according to our will. We can only choose to follow and be obedient to God instead of the flesh. The Spirit dwells in those who love one another. ‘Dwelling in us’ is not the same as being born of the spirit, is it, Solo?

Nicodemus said, “…we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.†Jesus then told him that in order for a man to have God‘s ability to heal and do the miracles he did, and in order for anyone to ascend up to heaven he would need to be born of the Spirit. He said, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.â€Â

He also tells him something astounding to me, “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.†I thought Elijah and Enoch were already up there, hanging out with Gabriel and Michael and the rest. Apparently not. Still in the waiting room it seems.


Solo wrote: Those that are born of God are known by Jesus Christ, and those that are born again know Jesus Christ; therefore, an evidence of being born of God is knowing Jesus Christ is God Almighty in His fulness. One who purports to know God the Father and denies that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, doesn't know God the Father.

Scripture please? I think you may have the cart before the horse or are reading something into the verses that isn‘t intended by the context.


Solo wrote: In answer to your question, it isn't up to what I believe of you whether you are saved or not; it is up to me to proclaim the warning of false doctrines and heresies so that those who seek the love of God are not lied to or deceived by false teachers and false prophets.

I wanted to give you a chance to examine what I believe to determine what heresy or false doctrine I held that needed to be warned about or to add any doctrine that I would need in order to be saved. Is anything false that I have stated or have I left anything out that would make me a false teacher if I teach only what is stated in the Bible? Can a person be saved, in your opinion, by what I teach?

Solo wrote: Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by Jesus Christ, being born again born of God is the only way one will see and enter the Kingdom of God; and to love God and our neighbors, requires that one walk in obedience to the entire counsel of God, in order to fully love as God loves. Loving of our own interpretation of love without walking in the Spirit and abiding by God's love is not the Agape love that is the love of God.

I only could make one correction because I haven‘t seen the Bible make Jesus to be God Almighty, but distinctly calls him the Son:
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God Almighty, Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by Jesus Christ, being born again born of God is the only way one will see and enter the Kingdom of God; and to love God and our neighbors, requires that one walk in obedience to the entire counsel of God, in order to fully love as God loves. Loving of our own interpretation of love without walking in the Spirit and abiding by God's love is not the Agape love that is the love of God.
The rest sounds Biblical as written, but probably not in your interpretation. The devil is in the details, huh?

Become born again and allow the Spirit of God to influence your sight, and you too will know Jesus Christ is JEHOVAH GOD. Until then you will flip with every doctrine of truth that disagrees with your own interpretation. You will never be convinced as an unbeliever. Only when the Holy Spirit requires that you become honest with yourself after showing you the truth, will you be able to become born of God. God has individuals that preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, and those that believe are born again; those that believe in another Christ continue in their condemnation. Hopefully you will become humble, honest and loving of God's truth one day. May God bless you in this endeavor.