Females As Leaders/Pastors Of Males In Evangelical Churches.

[eddif]

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that.


1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.


In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.

(sorry could not delete the bold print for some reason)


If God did not approve of women leading or instructing men then why was one third of Israel's first leadership team Female? God said to the prophet Micah "I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam, Micha 6:4.


Why was Deborah the chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades? Why was Huldah the most accurate prophet in Israel and why did God use her to instruct the king? Why did Anna prophesy at the Temple and Priscilla instruct Apollos? Why was Chloe a house church leader, Phoebe a deacon and and Junia (yes a woman) an apostle.​

Time for me to get in trouble.
Males and Females are able to serve God in order and peace.

Matthew 19:10 kjv
10. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Adam and Eve were created very good. After the fall the situation deteriorated. We are not in a perfect garden now. The Virgin unmarried single female is not held back by cares of marriage (pleasing a husband). The single male Virgin is not held back by the cares of marriage ( pleasing a wife). The woman is a female, but she has a lot of distractions in her married state. It would be rare for a woman to function as a totally dedicated servant of Jesus Christ. Not all people are called to this position. And the same goes for most married men. I am married and have the issues, it is only through grace I do the little I do in service.
I am not going to say more than this.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Time for me to get in trouble.
Males and Females are able to serve God in order and peace.

Matthew 19:10 kjv
10. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Adam and Eve were created very good. After the fall the situation deteriorated. We are not in a perfect garden now. The Virgin unmarried single female is not held back by cares of marriage (pleasing a husband). The single male Virgin is not held back by the cares of marriage ( pleasing a wife). The woman is a female, but she has a lot of distractions in her married state. It would be rare for a woman to function as a totally dedicated servant of Jesus Christ. Not all people are called to this position. And the same goes for most married men. I am married and have the issues, it is only through grace I do the little I do in service.
I am not going to say more than this.

eddif

Not sure what marriage has to do with the OP?

Why would you think it would be rare for a woman to function as a totally dedicated servant of Jesus Christ as we find many women in scripture that were of the ministry of Christ. Even I was a licensed Evangelist for a time and purpose of going into the prisons to teach the men and the women. It's only God that calls an appoints those who are equipped for His ministry here on earth.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Who was Junia? | The Junia Project

Who Was Junia? The Junia Project is named for Junia, a woman apostle in the early church (see Romans 16:7).Her ministry in partnership with Andronicus and Paul reminds us that God's intention is for men and women to partner together as equals in the home, the church, and the community.…

juniaproject.com

 

[Hopeful]

Why?? Junia is a Latin (Roman) female name.

Romans 16:7 KJV
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Just because someone is "of note among the apostles" doesn't make them apostles too.

 

[Hopeful]

Not sure what marriage has to do with the OP?

Why would you think it would be rare for a woman to function as a totally dedicated servant of Jesus Christ as we find many women in scripture that were of the ministry of Christ. Even I was a licensed Evangelist for a time and purpose of going into the prisons to teach the men and the women. It's only God that calls an appoints those who are equipped for His ministry here on earth.

Women can serve without teaching or having authority over men.

 

[for_his_glory]

JAG .. Luminous_Rose Hopeful jasonc DancesWithGnostics Christ_empowered Northman Titus Who Me hawkman

When in aligning that with the epistle in Timothy, if women sought to be in the Lord's ministry, per His words, it is in outreach ministry which the scripture has given examples regarding women as used by the Lord. Their sights should not be in the assembly.

This forum should be considered as an outreach ministry; not an actual assembly where if a brother is caught in a trespass, he is to be corrected privately, if not then with 2 or 3 witnesses to establish the word of correction, and if not repenting there, then before the whole assembly to excommunicate whereby the members of the church are to even shun fellowship with him in public until he repents before the whole church so everybody knows to let him back in and no longer shun him in public either.

We cannot really do that here for why it cannot be an assembly when we do not all speak the same thing and I am not in agreement with this forum's Statement of Faith by that one line, even in principle because below is an apostate statement that lays groundwork for the supernatural to happen which also is apostasy.

"We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

I believe all believers are always Spirit-filled since salvation and all we really "need" the Lord Jesus Christ's help not to sow the works of the flesh but looking to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ), thereby trusting Him to finish His work in us ( Philippians 1:6 ) as the fruits of righteousness ( the fruits of the Spirit ) are manifested by Jesus Christ ( Philippians 1:11 ).

I understand that not all believers apply that line as looking for the supernatural phenomenon for this continual filling, but in principle, but even in principle, it is not Biblically sound and it lays the foundation for when the supernatural happen, believers will go astray in apostasy because of that principle & so that principle is apostasy.

It is fortunate that this forum does not need a requirement to adhere to that statement of faith to be a member and does invite discussions that does not adhere to the statement of faith for believes to prove or reprove in their walk with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So in this forum, members are not really speaking the same thing nor holding to the same judgment for us to be considered an assembly & fellowship, but an outreach ministry where women can be used by the Lord in correcting others by His words.

So basically you are saying women should sit in the back of the church and never speak. As far as CF Statement of Faith and the ToS you, yourself agreed upon in becoming a member and now you come against them so that would make you a liar on that part.

Now you seem to have an agenda that everything you say we must agree on and that all members here are not part of the body of Christ with Jesus being the head of the body, because this is not a four walled building with an outside label on the building. You not only have denied parts of the Statement of Faith, but also the Community Message and have violated the ToS 1.1; 1.3 and 1.4.

What is your purpose here as you are not infallible as none of us are. But, can and do learn from others who have a greater Spiritual knowledge then another as we are all on different levels in how we understand the word of God. We share the teachings of Christ, not the teachings of man as we present our understanding with scripture. We do not tell others they are wrong, but let them know we do not agree as we discuss the indifferences.

Please tell me I am wrong in all I said here.

 

[for_his_glory]

You have got to be kidding

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[eddif]

Not sure what marriage has to do with the OP?

Why would you think it would be rare for a woman to function as a totally dedicated servant of Jesus Christ as we find many women in scripture that were of the ministry of Christ. Even I was a licensed Evangelist for a time and purpose of going into the prisons to teach the men and the women. It's only God that calls an appoints those who are equipped for His ministry here on earth.

The title of the thread is about females,
Your post mentioned females and women.
My comment addressed just two types of females
Unmarried virgins and married women.

Matthew 19:10 and (surrounding scriptures) mentions the problems marriage can cause.

So a female Virgin is not a woman.

Look I support females in the ministry openly.
I was just trying to point out what rhe scripture says.

There are men who should never be in the pulpit.

I am sure I sound course. I am just a sorry old man and I admit to it. I shore ain’t suave and debonair.

eddif

 

[D-D-W]

Just because someone is "of note among the apostles" doesn't make them apostles too.

Be careful you are parsing that in Greek and NOT English. Looking only at the English, you can certainly take that view point. The Greek makes it more clear that she was noted among the apostles as being one of them. DancesWithGnostics has linked the Junia Project website a few posts back. They can give you the details on that.

 

[jasonc]

Umn,that by logic means that noted her .try not to read with a bias .

 

[for_his_glory]

For instance?

Your proof that was the reason?

Though you may be correct about the "chatter", there isn't anything written to prove it.
They were told they could not teach men in 1 Tim 2:12..."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
And the reason..."For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Tim 2:13-14)

Did you see what happened to her?
Num 2:10..."And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous."
Exod 15:20 says she was a prophetess..."And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances."
There is nothing written forbidding women prophesying.

As I said above, there is nothing written forbidding women from prophesying.
Let the women prophesy to the glory of God.
But to use that honor and privilege to infer leadership to women is never written of in the bible.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).


Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.


Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.


​

1 Corinthians 14:26-40 is about orderly worship in the assembling. Here is a website that might help all of us understand why Paul made the statement about women being silent in the church.

learn.gcs.edu Women in Church Leadership

 

[Edward]

The way I see it, these are the last days. So if there's a woman out there with the gift of gab and she can lead even one more soul to Christ...then give the lady a church and a platform to speak from.

If there perhaps one person who does not have ears to hear the male pastor for whatever reason (heard some gossip, doesn't speak his language to make sense to him, or whatever), but for some reason the person does have ears to hear a woman or the pastors wife cuz he likes the way she talks or something, then there's no harm in it and it should be supported.

Notwithstanding her message itself! Don't give a Karen a chance to pastor, lol. But if a woman speaks true gospel and wants to teach or preach...here you go Mamn.

The last days are no time to be stuffy or legalistic about anything though, so take a woman's message strength on it's face and consider what she says, she might be right!

Oh waitaminute...I just found it accidently in scripture, do not let any woman speak in any church or on any internet forum, thou go make me a sandwich.../
So all women get booted from the forum at midnight tonight, say your good byes...So long girls and thanks for all the sandwiches!

That's from Luke 11:56 :wink

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.
​

(Sorry I couldn't take the bold out)

Let's take this back to the very beginning of God creating male and female as much of the Bible is written as being masculine language.​

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice in vs. 27 in the use of the word "him" as refering to both male and female. We also read this again in Genesis 5:1-2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. God created Adam, a name that refers to mankind or humanity in Hebrew, in two genders as male and female. The singular masculine is used to refer collectively to both male and female genders.

Throughout the Bible we see such verses like 1 Timothy 3:1-2 as being masculine language as we read "husband of one wife". This phrase is gender inclusive rather than gender exclusive because the masculine language is often used to incorporate women in scripture just like Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-2. It's the same with using the word "brethren" as it refers to both male and female from the first page of scripture to the last page of scripture.

There is an even stronger connection between the masculine singular and gender inclusivity in 1Timothy 3:1 -16 and Titus 1:5-16. Regarding the office of Pastor means that women are not prohibited from serving as Pastor if God calls them. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts He pleases as we read in 1 Corinthians 12 meaning that no woman is barred from any Spiritual gift or office because of her gender. Nowhere in scripture does it say women can not be Pastors or Evangelist.



​

 

[Edward]

1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.
​

(Sorry I couldn't take the bold out)

Let's take this back to the very beginning of God creating male and female as much of the Bible is written as being masculine language.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice in vs. 27 in the use of the word "him" as refering to both male and female. We also read this again in Genesis 5:1-2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. God created Adam, a name that refers to mankind or humanity in Hebrew, in two genders as male and female. The singular masculine is used to refer collectively to both male and female genders.

Throughout the Bible we see such verses like 1 Timothy 3:1-2 as being masculine language as we read "husband of one wife". This phrase is gender inclusive rather than gender exclusive because the masculine language is often used to incorporate women in scripture just like Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-2. It's the same with using the word "brethren" as it refers to both male and female from the first page of scripture to the last page of scripture.

There is an even stronger connection between the masculine singular and gender inclusivity in 1Timothy 3:1 -16 and Titus 1:5-16. Regarding the office of Pastor means that women are not prohibited from serving as Pastor if God calls them. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts He pleases as we read in 1 Corinthians 12 meaning that no woman is barred from any Spiritual gift or office because of her gender. Nowhere in scripture does it say women can not be Pastors or Evangelist.



​

Mamn, you made the cut! You're not getting booted at midnight because you have a good message!

(That's no Karen there Boys). Lol

 

[for_his_glory]

Women can serve without teaching or having authority over men.

I was directing this reply to eddif reply in what he said as I needed him to explain.

 

[for_his_glory]

The title of the thread is about females,
Your post mentioned females and women.
My comment addressed just two types of females
Unmarried virgins and married women.

Matthew 19:10 and (surrounding scriptures) mentions the problems marriage can cause.

So a female Virgin is not a woman.

Look I support females in the ministry openly.
I was just trying to point out what rhe scripture says.

There are men who should never be in the pulpit.

I am sure I sound course. I am just a sorry old man and I admit to it. I shore ain’t suave and debonair.

eddif

Thank you, but still don't see what it has to do with women ministers
We can just move past this if you want.

 

[for_his_glory]

The way I see it, these are the last days. So if there's a woman out there with the gift of gab and she can lead even one more soul to Christ...then give the lady a church and a platform to speak from.

If there perhaps one person who does not have ears to hear the male pastor for whatever reason (heard some gossip, doesn't speak his language to make sense to him, or whatever), but for some reason the person does have ears to hear a woman or the pastors wife cuz he likes the way she talks or something, then there's no harm in it and it should be supported.

Notwithstanding her message itself! Don't give a Karen a chance to pastor, lol. But if a woman speaks true gospel and wants to teach or preach...here you go Mamn.

The last days are no time to be stuffy or legalistic about anything though, so take a woman's message strength on it's face and consider what she says, she might be right!

Oh waitaminute...I just found it accidently in scripture, do not let any woman speak in any church or on any internet forum, thou go make me a sandwich.../
So all women get booted from the forum at midnight tonight, say your good byes...So long girls and thanks for all the sandwiches!

That's from Luke 11:56 :wink

 

[D-D-W]

Women can serve without teaching or having authority over men.

You have seen the list.
Phoebe a deaconess. Daughters of Philip prophets. Junia an apostle. Priscilla a teacher.

Do you think they prophesied and executed authority over women in the church ONLY?

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

FOUR daughters of Philip prophesied. They weren't named - only Agabus of New Testament prophets is named

 

[for_his_glory]

Mamn, you made the cut! You're not getting booted at midnight because you have a good message!

(That's no Karen there Boys). Lol

Thank you as I can quit crying now