Adam and Eve were created by God.
Grace, thanks be to God.
And by the grace of God I have been enabled to live the law of Christ.
They are not "social" principals, they are God's principals.
Christian Forums
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Females As Leaders/Pastors Of Males In Evangelical Churches.
- Thread starter JAG ..
- Start date
And by the grace of God I have been enabled to live the law of Christ.
"What makes you think that women and/or homosexuals can't be church leaders (or preachers, as you call them)? Is there some genetic reason to exclude them, e.g., they can't discern God's will or ..?"__Jaybo
________________
Thanks for confirming one of my OP's major propositions.
Please continue to present your position loud and clear
and incessantly into the ears of Evangelicals and be sure to
tell them that you say you are a Christian too.
JAG
``
I only took out this snippet of your reply why a woman (wife) needs to be under their husband's authority. It's all about Spiritual authority as the husband is to be the Spiritual head of his family as Christ is the Spiritual head of the church (body of Christ), Ephesians 5:22-33.
Man, woman, married or single we are all under God's Spiritual authority. Church was never intended to be founded on man's doctrines, denominations or non-denominations that teach another gospel, but all are to be called to truth taught through the doctrines of Christ.
When one studies 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 Paul is speaking about orderly worship. When Paul made the statement "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law", he was not speaking about women not being allowed to be leaders/Pastors, but that they need to be quiet, or other words, contain their questions during the assembling instead of asking so many questions. He told them to wait until they got home and ask their husbands.
We need to be careful of what man's traditional hand me down teachings are trying to teach us, but to read the scriptures for that which has already been written without adding our POV to them. That verse says nothing about women not being allowed to be leaders or teachers, which by the way that is what a Pastor/Evangelist are to be as our leaders in teaching the word of God.
Dropping the
have said all I can on this topic.
Something that is a total abomination to God should never be allowed to teach others as we, male and female, need to be pleasing to the Lord in all we say and do in order to bring glory unto His name as being a vessel of honor. I do not believe in a women's empowerment movement or the Homosexual empowerment movement as neither one has any place in God's ministry.Note to the thread:
I am a realist and not an idealist. That means that I am
well aware that women preachers within Evangelicalism, are
not only here to stay, but that they will grow in numbers. One
of my major points in the OP is to point out to Evangelicals,
that when they accept females as preachers in their churches
that means they will also end up accepting practicing
homosexuals as preachers in their churches ~ first came
their acceptance of women preachers/pastors. Now the
same arguments used to justify them accepting women
as their preachers/pastors are also used to get them to
accept practicing homosexuals as their preachers/pastors.
Which they are now in the process of doing. It was not
an accident that the Women's Empowerment Movement
came BEFORE the Homosexual Empowerment Movement.
The two movements go hand in hand.
Start quote.
"But evangelical churches and their congregations typically remain opposed, though that opposition is weakening. Support for gay marriage across all age groups of white evangelicals has increased by double digits over the past decade, according to the Public Religion Research Institute. Support among the oldest evangelicals grew from 1 in 20 in 2003 to 1 in 5 in 2014. But the fastest change can be found among younger evangelicals, whose support for gay marriage jumped from 20% in 2003 to 42% in 2014."
End quote
Source:
Inside the Evangelical Fight Over Gay Marriage
Churches are beginning to embrace their LGBT congregantstime.com
JAG
``
Only God calls us to His purpose within His ministry as His Holy Spirit anoints those who He sees fit to teach us.
The fact that you're a woman and also a leader/pastor of this forum (christianforums.net) should put this entire debate to rest.I only took out this snippet of your reply why a woman (wife) needs to be under their husband's authority. It's all about Spiritual authority as the husband is to be the Spiritual head of his family as Christ is the Spiritual head of the church (body of Christ), Ephesians 5:22-33.
Man, woman, married or single we are all under God's Spiritual authority. Church was never intended to be founded on man's doctrines, denominations or non-denominations that teach another gospel, but all are to be called to truth taught through the doctrines of Christ.
When one studies 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 Paul is speaking about orderly worship. When Paul made the statement "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law", he was not speaking about women not being allowed to be leaders/Pastors, but that they need to be quiet, or other words, contain their questions during the assembling instead of asking so many questions. He told them to wait until they got home and ask their husbands.
We need to be careful of what man's traditional hand me down teachings are trying to teach us, but to read the scriptures for that which has already been written without adding our POV to them. That verse says nothing about women not being allowed to be leaders or teachers, which by the way that is what a Pastor/Evangelist are to be as our leaders in teaching the word of God.
Dropping the
It's absurd in the 21st Century in a Western Democracy (or any modern government) to think that the social norms of the first century in one city should be interpreted as God's law.
Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." NET v 2.1
Actually when others try to silent the women that God has specifically called and anointed to teach the Gospel they are shutting down the power and authority of God that works through them.
And some of us believe that God can work through whomever He chooses, regardless of gender. That's what's written in my Bible.
Edward
2024 Supporter
I only took out this snippet of your reply why a woman (wife) needs to be under their husband's authority. It's all about Spiritual authority as the husband is to be the Spiritual head of his family as Christ is the Spiritual head of the church (body of Christ), Ephesians 5:22-33.
Man, woman, married or single we are all under God's Spiritual authority. Church was never intended to be founded on man's doctrines, denominations or non-denominations that teach another gospel, but all are to be called to truth taught through the doctrines of Christ.
When one studies 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 Paul is speaking about orderly worship. When Paul made the statement "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law", he was not speaking about women not being allowed to be leaders/Pastors, but that they need to be quiet, or other words, contain their questions during the assembling instead of asking so many questions. He told them to wait until they got home and ask their husbands.
We need to be careful of what man's traditional hand me down teachings are trying to teach us, but to read the scriptures for that which has already been written without adding our POV to them. That verse says nothing about women not being allowed to be leaders or teachers, which by the way that is what a Pastor/Evangelist are to be as our leaders in teaching the word of God.
Dropping the
I think you're jumping to conclusions about what I said, I am not espousing man's doctrines. Maybe what I said sounded similar to a man's doctrine but my heart and my intent was never non-biblical. My standing of where I spoke from is mostly covered in Proverbs 31 if you'd care to read that.
I fully realize that man is to be the spiritual head of the home and man is not between the Wife and God. She listens to God first and foremost.
Biblically speaking, woman is to be subservient to her Husband, or is she not?
I guess I touched a nerve with you somehow and such was not my intent.
I really don't want to do anything contrary to what is written in the bible.
Some call the bible the word of God, and I agree.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Jag has tied together 2 things that are totally unrelated, unless you think that being female requires the death sentence.
Leviticus 20:13
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
I find no such verse about being female. So spiritually there is a HUGE difference. There are any number of verses in both testaments that specifically condemn male on male homosexuality. There is one place (Romans 1) that adds female on female to that list. And it says this:
Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions;...
Someone who is a homosexual has refused and rejected God's ways. Do you really want that kind of person leading HIS assembly? I do not.
But does being female mean that person has refused and rejected God? Of course not; and that is why those 2 ideas should NEVER be conflated together.
Incorrect.
From the OP
"I like the freedom to be a preacher", said the Reverend. Henrietta Smartr Thangod,
senior pastor of the Rebellious Saints Evangelical Mega-Church.
"What about sodomy", asked the Rev. Deal Infacts, "do you like sodomy?"
"What?"
"Well", replied the Rev. Deal Infacts, "the same reasons used to empower you to be
a leader of men, women, and children in Evangelical churches, are also used to
empower homosexuals to be leaders of men, women, and children in Evangelical
churches."
{When she heard that, the Rev. Henrietta Smartr Thangod got her shorts in a twist
and stared coldly at Rev. Deal Infacts.)
"It was not an accident", continued the Rev. Deal Infacts, "that the Women's Empowerment Movement came BEFORE the Homosexual Empowerment Movement."
"Explain?"
"The two 'freedoms' go hand in hand", replied Rev. Deal Infacts, "Your Rebellious Saints Evangelical Mega-Church does not obey the Bible when it says women are not to preach (1 Tim. 2:11-14 and 1 Cor. 14:34-38) so there is no reason for your Rebellious Saints Evangelical Mega-Church to obey the Bible when it says for members of your church not to perform homosexual sex acts (Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Cor. 6:9-11 and 1 Tim. 1:8-11) ~ and when it says for them not to preach or pastor Christian churches if they do perform homosexual sex acts . . .
. . . [Rev. Deal Infacts paused for a moment and then added] :
No Christian denomination will embrace homosexuals as pastors of their churches without first changing their minds about women being pastors of their churches."
The Rev. Deal Infacts continued . . .
"You becoming the pastor of the Rebellious Saints Evangelical Mega-Church makes it easy for homosexuals to become pastors of other Rebellious Saints Evangelical churches. Step one, first comes women as preachers in Evangelical Christian Churches. Step two, next comes homosexual preachers and pastors in Evangelical Christian churches.
End quote
______________
That up there is factually true and there is nothing that can be said
that will un-true it.
JAG
Last edited:
The Women's Empowerment Movement came first, then right behind it, came
the Homosexual Empowerment Movement. The two movements go hand in
hand.
Here is what one well known homosexual activist said about that:
"“It is not an accident that the women’s-liberation movement preceded the gay-liberation movement,” Robinson says. “Discriminatory attitudes and treatment of LGBT people is rooted in patriarchy, and in order to embrace and affirm gays, evangelicals will have to address their own patriarchy and sexism, not just their condemnation of LGBT people.”
Inside the Evangelical Fight Over Gay Marriage
Churches are beginning to embrace their LGBT congregants
JAG
Samarathan
Member
I do not think that men and woman were in the same prison?
I agree with all you said. I only took out that snippet to show others that the man is to have Spiritual authority over his household instructing them in the word and the ways of the Lord as a wife needs to be in submission to that which is Spiritual. Nothing more, nothing less.
We're good my friend.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
I will not argue that some have conflated the 2. But find me CHAPTER AND VERSE that ties the 2 together. You will not because it does NOT exist.
Conflating women pastoring and homosexuals pastoring is an entirely human invention.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Show me that scripturally.
They are both something to be rejected.
Why would any of us even think that the act of something that is an abomination to God would be accepted by Him or that He would call them to be any part of His ministry!!!
Leviticus 18:22; 20:10-21; Romans 1:18-32
Leviticus 18:22; 20:10-21; Romans 1:18-32
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
The gay agenda in the church - absolutely.
On the other point, women in ministry, There seems to be indications of women being of import to the ministry even in Paul's letters if you read and not gloss over such mentions. I do not think one can take a "one size fits all" and every situation, and make it a hard legalistic standard. But digging thru that requires one to do some serious hard work into the cultures and situations in each of the congregations he wrote to.
I don't know how you an separate the two.
Both are written against.
Paul isn't going to write against something, then do it himself.