For the love of convenience, for the love of progress, for the love of...

[john darling]

Not really, when and IF the time comes I guess I"ll worry about it.

God says not to worry about tomorrow for today has enough misery of it's own - or something like that. lol

Hi Jesse. Yes, I recognize the verses you are referring to and it's interesting that you mention it, because I think it relates specifically to this topic of money and our attitude towards God's provision. In fact, in those verses Jesus specifically talks about two masters, one master being God and the other being mammon (money and the things money can buy).

He then follows that up with the teachings you mentioned about how we should not worry about what we will eat, drink or wear. He said we should consider the birds and flowers specifically because they do not work for money, and yet God still takes care of them.

I believe this is the answer to the dilemma of no more buying and selling.

 

[john darling]

I must ask if the federal government mandated a dna sample, bio metrics in order to have money would you go along? I think you would.

This is probably a reasonable assumption on your part, as I'm kinda under the same impression about most of the world. Taking an implant will be reasoned out as necessary and unavoidable. Even if some people feel squeamish about it for either religious or security reasons they will almost certainly end up using some kind of justification for taking it simply because it will either be take it or lose your job and ability to buy/sell.

Because most of us believe we'd die without money, we're put into a very awkward position with microchip implants when compared to the Mark of the Beast prophecy. I'm not trying to accuse anyone, but rather, to get some discussion going which confronts the reason for why the awkwardness exists in the first place and what the alternatives are.

 

[Gary]

it will either be take it or lose your job and ability to buy/sell.

Would this implant be world wide?

.

 

[john darling]

I never said it was that way. don't assume that

What I took from your post were comments about "motives of the heart" in relation to buying and selling. You suggested that buying and selling in itself isn't bad, but our motives behind why we do it. Ordinarily I'd agree with you on that as I also believe motives are an important part of working out the right or wrong of any given situation.

However, the context here is the Mark of the Beast, which is described as being used for buying and selling. I'm looking at the bigger picture. Consider these pieces of the puzzle:
Jesus said we cannot serve two masters without cheating on one or the other. He said God is one master and mammon (money and the things money can buy) is the other master.
Paul said "the love of money is the root of all evil".
The Revelation talks about how the AC will use buying and selling to control the world.
And, one of those other Bible contributors observed that the heart is deceitful above all things.

Add these biblical concepts to the real world concepts of:
We need money to survive.
Money makes the world go round.
Money is changing it's shape from cash to cashless in the form of microchip implants on the hand.
If you have a good attitude of the heart, buying and selling isn't a problem.

Squish all this together and you've got a very dangerous situation spiritually, where people convince themselves that the dangers associated with our reliance on money do not relate to them because they have a good attitude.

 

[john darling]

Would this implant be world wide?

.

Hi Gary. Good question. The evidence suggests it will be. Lots of countries around the world are experimenting with methods which are pointed in the direction of implant technology. It makes sense, since the world's economies are so intricately connected through world wide banking schemes.

And, as people mentioned earlier about various fees they are charged for using their electronic means of payment, there is huge incentive for any financial institution who is interested in money to get on board with this system, since they will have even greater control over transaction fees.

 

[Gary]

Hi Gary. Good question. The evidence suggests it will be.

Right now there's over 7 billion people on this planet. That's a lot of implants. Who pays for that?

 

[john darling]

Yeah, I don't get that either. Technology is nice but one doesn't need it to live.

.

That's true and yet what is the alternative?

 

[john darling]

Right now there's over 7 billion people on this planet. That's a lot of implants. Who pays for that?

Money costs money to print every year, too. Who pays for that?

 

[Gary]

Money costs money to print every year, too. Who pays for that?

So you believe there won't be any out of pocket expenses?

 

[Jesse]

Hi Jesse. Yes, I recognize the verses you are referring to and it's interesting that you mention it, because I think it relates specifically to this topic of money and our attitude towards God's provision. In fact, in those verses Jesus specifically talks about two masters, one master being God and the other being mammon (money and the things money can buy).

He then follows that up with the teachings you mentioned about how we should not worry about what we will eat, drink or wear. He said we should consider the birds and flowers specifically because they do not work for money, and yet God still takes care of them.

I believe this is the answer to the dilemma of no more buying and selling.

I don't see a dilemma.

 

[john darling]

food for thought..
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/item/18184-will-microchip-implants-in-humans-become-mandatory
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mind-reading-technology-speeds-ahead/

the first link is interesting and unbiased as much as it can be. I don't think the decoding idea is close technology.

Thanks for posting those links, Jason. I read the first one. It was interesting, though I thought the author included some stuff about "transhumanism" which gave the impression that there was a lot of fiction mixed in with the non fiction, leaving it to the reader to determine which is which. Normally I'd not have a problem with that since discernment it just a normal part of life but in this case I think the fiction gives people a little too much incentive to dismiss the non-fiction.

What I believe to be the most significant issue isn't really whether microchip implants are coming or not. It's what the alternative is for people who do feel there is something not quite right about them and don't want to take the chip.

 

[john darling]

So you believe there won't be any out of pocket expenses?

I don't understand what you mean. Sure, there will be expenses in producing the chips and setting up the infrastructure but that's just how it is with any business venture. It will always take money to make money regardless of where the money comes from.

If you're asking for more detailed discussion on how the economics of it works, like who pays and who benefits, that could make for interesting discussion.

 

[jasonc]

Thanks for posting those links, Jason. I read the first one. It was interesting, though I thought the author included some stuff about "transhumanism" which gave the impression that there was a lot of fiction mixed in with the non fiction, leaving it to the reader to determine which is which. Normally I'd not have a problem with that since discernment it just a normal part of life but in this case I think the fiction gives people a little too much incentive to dismiss the non-fiction.

What I believe to be the most significant issue isn't really whether microchip implants are coming or not. It's what the alternative is for people who do feel there is something not quite right about them and don't want to take the chip.

uhm transhumanism is real. people do want to do that. fiction? cell phones were created by a man watching star trek and said lets do that. the idea was the simple communicator and we have cell phones. im not suggesting that its here but the idea of that is being pushed

 

[Edward]

Yeah, I don't get that either. Technology is nice but one doesn't need it to live.

.

That's true and yet what is the alternative?

My "facebook" page when I was growing up was the city park or the schoolyard. If I wanted to post something on my friends timeline, it sometimes involved bikes, darkness and eggs, lol.

My sister was super computer savvy. She was all IT and hardware tech, software tech, SA, and all that and she built our dad a nice computer so he could be online and catch up with the times. He kept it about a week and threw it in the dumpster because it was frustrating. Sis said he shouldn't have tossed it out, he didn't realize the value of it. I said maybe he does know the value of it, and got the raised eyebrows lol.

Good point with that scripture take no thought for the morrow, what you will eat or wear. That about sums it up. God will be feeding His people when the time comes. Why are those stories about feeding so many people with a couple fish, and how the birds were feeding His servant by the brook in the bible for anyway? He's letting us know that He will care for us. Need to travel? Its called translation (transrelocation). Enoch did it. Phillip did it in acts after he baptized the Ethiopian. Brother, you wont need to worry about any of this stuff. All you need to do is believe, have faith.

Christian brothers and sisters are going to have to be mentally prepared for the lifestyle change. I suspect that there will be a lot of supernatural happenings on the earth during those times. The way it stands now, the church sloughs that sort of thing off and calls it witchcraft. But it's not, it's the power of God. One could be 'left out in the cold' if they do not have faith though. Only total submission will allow Gods power to flow through us and work though.

 

[Deborah13]

What I took from your post were comments about "motives of the heart" in relation to buying and selling. You suggested that buying and selling in itself isn't bad, but our motives behind why we do it. Ordinarily I'd agree with you on that as I also believe motives are an important part of working out the right or wrong of any given situation.

However, the context here is the Mark of the Beast, which is described as being used for buying and selling. I'm looking at the bigger picture. Consider these pieces of the puzzle:
Jesus said we cannot serve two masters without cheating on one or the other. He said God is one master and mammon (money and the things money can buy) is the other master.
Paul said "the love of money is the root of all evil".
The Revelation talks about how the AC will use buying and selling to control the world.
And, one of those other Bible contributors observed that the heart is deceitful above all things.

Add these biblical concepts to the real world concepts of:
We need money to survive.
Money makes the world go round.
Money is changing it's shape from cash to cashless in the form of microchip implants on the hand.
If you have a good attitude of the heart, buying and selling isn't a problem.

Squish all this together and you've got a very dangerous situation spiritually, where people convince themselves that the dangers associated with our reliance on money do not relate to them because they have a good attitude.

In the first place you are leaving out a BIG part of the mark of the beast. The idea is that one most worship the beast in order to be GIVEN or OBTAIN the mark.
I think what you are trying to get to in your many, many posts is that man worships money and therefore he will accept the mark.
If that is the case we have all accepted the mark already in one form or another. Gold, silver, diamonds, other gems, paper money, checks, ccards, valuable art, stocks and bonds, etc. In that case, what difference is there in any other form of tender?

 

[Edward]

Lol, money is perhaps the biggest deception of all. This world doesn't need money to operate, they just want everyone to feel that way, and set everything up so you do need it...

If we didn't have money, there'd be no need for a welfare system.

 

[Gary]

Christian brothers and sisters are going to have to be mentally prepared for the lifestyle change. I suspect that there will be a lot of supernatural happenings on the earth during those times. The way it stands now, the church sloughs that sort of thing off and calls it witchcraft. But it's not, it's the power of God.

Not all of it. The devil has his own bag of tricks.

.

 

[reba]

Yeah, I don't get that either. Technology is nice but one doesn't need it to live.

.

Not so sure our power was out today for about 9 hours...

 

[Edward]

Not all of it. The devil has his own bag of tricks.

.

He sure does. It's all copycat counterfeit stuff though. We can't reject all paranormal/supernatural incidents as witchcraft though. Test those spirits! Every one.

Not so sure our power was out today for about 9 hours...

Most the people I know all are taking steps to be able to operate off the grid. It'd prolly only take a years worth of utility bills to set a system up.

 

[john darling]

Most the people I know all are taking steps to be able to operate off the grid. It'd prolly only take a years worth of utility bills to set a system up.

I wouldn't normally make an issue of ending sentences with a preposition, but in the context of this thread the irony is just too good to pass...up. >.>

"It'd prolly only take a years worth of utility bills to up set a system".