Forever Secure

[JLB]

Both of you are now dodging the question..which raises RED flags.

When you blatantly disregard my question several times and turn around and claim I’m dodging your question when I answered it, then you are not being truthful.

That is the definition of lying, sir.


This is the reason discussing OSAS usually degenerates into arguing rather than healthy discussion.


You sir, are not discussing doctrine with integrity.


Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility. Titus 2:6-7



JLB

 

[JLB]

Any sins committed now or in the future. We've discussed this already.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


Sorry, but we are called to confess our sins, so He can forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.


How can you be forgiven and cleansed without confessing your sin?

“If” means there is a condition.


If we want our sin forgiven, then we must confess it.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Any sins committed now or in the future. We've discussed this already.

When you get to your future sins, they will be covered if you still believe and trust in Christ's blood to cover them at that time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He is greater than you, he is greater than all. He is able to accomplish what he started in us. He is God and he is able. Does that not ring true to you?

It totally rings true with me.
That's why I want to continue to believe and trust in so great a Ministry and Sacrifice!
Only a fool would stop believing in so great a salvation.
I ain't no fool.
...so far, anyway, lol.

The Hebrews were giving up on the everlasting salvation they had through Christ's ministry and were going back to the not so great, temporary, incomplete salvation achieved through the law. The author was very plain when he said those who have been sanctified one time for all time by the blood of Christ, not needing to offer another sacrifice for sanctification, who then trample on the blood that sanctified them will go to hell, not be saved when Jesus comes back.


10 ...we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 ...by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:10,14,29

Why can't you see it?
He's talking about bona-fide believers in Christ going to hell for not believing in the blood of Christ anymore.
At best, you're letting other scriptures, misused and abused by OSAS, make you not see these plain words.
At worst, you don't want to see them.
I don't know which is true for you. I don't know you.
I'm not passing judgment on you.
Hopefully, I'm helping you examine yourself.

 

[Cygnus]

When you blatantly disregard my question several times and turn around and claim I’m dodging your question when I answered it, then you are not being truthful.

That is the definition of lying, sir.


This is the reason discussing OSAS usually degenerates into arguing rather than healthy discussion.


You sir, are not discussing doctrine with integrity.


Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility. Titus 2:6-7



JLB

I have replied to your question everytime you have asked....I'm sorry if you don't like the answer. My reply is backed by several commentaries written by learned theologians and such. Unlike you, I have studied the issue.

 

[Cygnus]

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


Sorry, but we are called to confess our sins, so He can forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.


How can you be forgiven and cleansed without confessing your sin?

“If” means there is a condition.


If we want our sin forgiven, then we must confess it.




JLB

I have already been given Christ righteousness. Have you considered accepting Jesus and receiving His righteousness?

 

[Cygnus]

When you get to your future sins, they will be covered if you still believe and trust in Christ's blood to cover them at that time.

If that's what you need to believe...have at it.

 

[JLB]

I have replied to your question everytime you have asked....I'm sorry if you don't like the answer. My reply is backed by several commentaries written by learned theologians and such. Unlike you, I have studied the issue.

Here is my question I asked you. — Post # 427


Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?

Here is my point with scripture and the question I asked you.

Are you going to answer it?

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?


JLB

Here is how you replied. —

post # 429

NEXT

Sir, you are not being honest.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I have already been given Christ righteousness. Have you considered accepting Jesus and receiving His righteousness?

I have definitely believed and therefore obeyed the Gospel, and was forgiven of my sins.

He then imputed His righteousness, His Spirit, His Life into my spirit. He is my righteousness.

Apart from Him I am not righteous.


So the question remains. —-


If a person who is in Christ (are therefore has the righteousness of God IN CHRIST), but then is removed from Christ, do they still have eternal life (and the righteousness they once had?)


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2



The Only way we have the righteousness of Christ, is if we are in fact “in Christ”.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If that's what you need to believe...have at it.

How do you have forgiveness for a sin you did not commit?
--------------------------------------------
Are you familiar with Gnostic teachings?

 

[LovethroughDove]

JLB, I think I've answered your question you have asked countless times.

The John 15:1-2. And then you said. "Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?"

He is referring to himself as the Word in this parable. This pertains to anyone who is in the Word. That is why in Romans 11 it speaks of branches also. See, he was given to Israel first and if they do not persist in unbelief they can be grafted in.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Now, if you go a little further in John 15 and the Vine and Branches......it talks about Love and that is where I am going to leave this conversation. I will no longer respond in the thread after I respond to Jethro.

 

[LovethroughDove]

It totally rings true with me.
That's why I want to continue to believe and trust in so great a Ministry and Sacrifice!
Only a fool would stop believing in so great a salvation.
I ain't no fool.
...so far, anyway, lol.

The Hebrews were giving up on the everlasting salvation they had through Christ's ministry and were going back to the not so great, temporary, incomplete salvation achieved through the law. The author was very plain when he said those who have been sanctified one time for all time by the blood of Christ, not needing to offer another sacrifice for sanctification, who then trample on the blood that sanctified them will go to hell, not be saved when Jesus comes back.


10 ...we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 ...by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:10,14,29

Why can't you see it?
He's talking about bona-fide believers in Christ going to hell for not believing in the blood of Christ anymore.
At best, you're letting other scriptures, misused and abused by OSAS, make you not see these plain words.
At worst, you don't want to see them.
I don't know which is true for you. I don't know you.
I'm not passing judgment on you.
Hopefully, I'm helping you examine yourself.

I'm glad that rings true with you. I am not going to doubt your sincerity about anything. I know you are not doubting mine. I told you that it is impossible for me not to believe anymore, for some reason he secured me no matter what.

We can agree that..........2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, and correcting and training in righteousness

I think we all can agree that Hebrews 10 is talking about how what Jesus accomplished by being the sacrifice. This sacrifice was made once. That has been done, it doesn't need to be done again.

Since scripture is for anyone with a sincere heart.....it will correct someone. Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

This scripture pointed me in the direction of looking to the Spirit to do my holy works. This scripture taught, rebuked and corrected my line of thinking and spiritual walk.

 

[for_his_glory]

Division and accusations between members is becoming very prevalent in that of causing division instead of bringing unity to the discussions as we discuss scripture. This needs to stop in order for this thread to continue. Violations of the ToS 1.1, 1.3 and 1.5 are being made and if continued to be violated there will be a time out ban for those breaking the rules of CF. Please be reminded of the Community message and the ToS within the discussions.

 

[Hopeful]

Never met one.
You must be the first.

Hardly.
"Faith cometh by hearing", and so does the knowledge of God's ability to keep us "in Him".
I had to hear of life in the light before I could live it, so others had to be there to teach me.
Thank God for them.

 

[Cygnus]

Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?

OK, what does "in Christ" mean. You'll need to present your definition.

You received the NEXT because you were answered several times.




so, what does "in christ" mean????

 

[Cygnus]

How do you have forgiveness for a sin you did not commit?
--------------------------------------------
Are you familiar with Gnostic teachings?

The same wasy the bible says our record of debt (sins) has been nailed to a cross that no longer exist.

Col 2:14
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[Cygnus]

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

Either they were psuedo Christians or the following may apply....
1 Cor 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplinedjso that we may not be condemned along with the world.

They died. Taken away.
Their works were judged in the fire...not them thrown into the fire. I've explained it to you before...

1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilledb master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

The branch is removed...taken away via death...works judged by being thrown into the fire...though he himself will be saved.

It s possible to be in Christ...SAVED...live a life that calls for your works to be burnt....have God remove you via death...judge your works in the fire...and still be saved.

 

[JLB]

OK, what does "in Christ" mean. You'll need to present your definition.

You received the NEXT because you were answered several times.




so, what does "in christ" mean????

One spirit with Christ. Joined to Christ.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


Like a branch that is joined to a vine we are “in Christ” and receive our life from Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

The Lord wants us to remain in Him, because He loves us and desires for us to love, and obey Him. He desires for us to love each other. Those who live in disobedience live in hatred of God and His kingdom.


Now if you would answer my question, or at least give me the post # where you answered it.


Here it is again —


Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Either they were psuedo Christians or the following may apply....
1 Cor 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplinedjso that we may not be condemned along with the world.

They died. Taken away.
Their works were judged in the fire...not them thrown into the fire. I've explained it to you before...

1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilledb master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

The branch is removed...taken away via death...works judged by being thrown into the fire...though he himself will be saved.

It s possible to be in Christ...SAVED...live a life that calls for your works to be burnt....have God remove you via death...judge your works in the fire...and still be saved.

I think I understand your answer but don’t want to put words in your mouth.


Your answer to my question of .... Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?


Yes they still have eternal life, even though they have been removed from Christ.


Is this correct or did I misunderstand you?



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?

Yes. You can't lose your salvation.