Forever Secure

[Cygnus]

I think I understand your answer but don’t want to put words in your mouth.


Your answer to my question of .... Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?


Yes they still have eternal life, even though they have been removed from Christ.


Is this correct or did I misunderstand you?



JLB

Once again yes. You can't lose your salvation.

 

[JLB]

It s possible to be in Christ...SAVED...live a life that calls for your works to be burnt....have God remove you via death...judge your works in the fire...and still be saved.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


I don’t see any judging works narrative in this statement from Christ, I only see in Christ or not.

The person himself is thrown into the fire, not his “works”.

It’s hard to imagine throwing a withered branch into a fire and it not burning.


Burn here in the Greek, “burned” refers to being set on fire. It’s clear the person who is removed from Christ, has returned to the former state where he was before being in Christ, and is cast into the fire and burned whereas the verse you are referring to pertains to “works” being tested by fire.


Set on fire is a reference to hell.


And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
James 3:6


Paul said the same thing in 1 Corinthians 3 —-

• If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:15-17




JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes. You can't lose your salvation.

Thanks for your answer.

How does a person have eternal life apart from Christ?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Once again yes. You can't lose your salvation.

Where does the Bible say you can’t lose your salvation?



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB, I think I've answered your question you have asked countless times.

The John 15:1-2. And then you said. "Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?"

He is referring to himself as the Word in this parable. This pertains to anyone who is in the Word. That is why in Romans 11 it speaks of branches also. See, he was given to Israel first and if they do not persist in unbelief they can be grafted in.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Now, if you go a little further in John 15 and the Vine and Branches......it talks about Love and that is where I am going to leave this conversation. I will no longer respond in the thread after I respond to Jethro.

Ok. We can pick this back up again in the future.



Be blessed.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You have misinterpreted 1 John 1:7-10.
John is addressing the church about two very different men/kinds of walk.
Some of the verses pertain to those in darkness, (v 6,8,10), and some pertain to those who walk in the light. (v 5,7,9)
It is those who walk in darkness who cannot say they have no sin, but verse 7 makes it clear we can instead walk in the light, God, and the blood of His Son cleanseth all of them from ALL sin.
If Jesus' blood has washed away all our past sins, why can't we testify to that?

1 Jn 1:7-10 shows Christian are not going to be perfectly, flawlessly sinless therefore will have to walk in the light to have those sins cleansed away.

It is written..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

The Christian will not be sinlessly perfect on his own. He can find perction in Christ for those that have been baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27) have put on Christ, have put on Christ' s perfect righteousness therefore seen as perfect by God through Christ.

The questions I asked:
God requires man to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved? No, If man can be perfectly sinless on his own no need for Christ to die for man's sins when man would have no sins.

God will unconditionally forgives and save those that do not repent? No. God has required man (both OT & NT)
to repent in order to be forgiven.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So, just how much striving is enough?

As much as one possible can.

(It seems you don't like Christ said to strive to enter the kingdom)

 

[Cygnus]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


I don’t see any judging works narrative in this statement from Christ, I only see in Christ or not.

The person himself is thrown into the fire, not his “works”.

It’s hard to imagine throwing a withered branch into a fire and it not burning.


Burn here in the Greek, “burned” refers to being set on fire. It’s clear the person who is removed from Christ, has returned to the former state where he was before being in Christ, and is cast into the fire and burned whereas the verse you are referring to pertains to “works” being tested by fire.


Set on fire is a reference to hell.


And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
James 3:6


Paul said the same thing in 1 Corinthians 3 —-

• If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:15-17




JLB

Then i guess i'll see you in hell....according to your theology.

 

[Cygnus]

Where does the Bible say you can’t lose your salvation?



JLB

No where. I suppose i'll see you in hell according to your theology.

 

[Cygnus]

Thanks for your answer.

How does a person have eternal life apart from Christ?



JLB

I quess you can't....so I'll see you in hell according to your theology.

 

[JLB]

No where. I suppose i'll see you in hell according to your theology.

No brother, you won’t see me in hell.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I quess you can't....

I agree. Apart from Christ we have no eternal life.

No righteousness.

He is our righteousness

He is our life. Our eternal life.

He is for us, not against us.

Lets at least agree that The Lord wants us to remain in Him, and be in unity and harmony with His Spirit.


JLB

 

[JLB]

....so I'll see you in hell according to your theology.

Please don’t say things like this.

I know you want to remain in Christ just like the rest of us.

It’s not my theology, by the way, it’s the words of Christ.

• Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
John 15:1-7




JLB

 

[Cygnus]

No brother, you won’t see me in hell.


JLB

Your theology says you'll be there.

 

[JLB]

Your theology says you'll be there.

Thanks for your opinion, but I will respectfully disagree.


Jesus wants us to remain in Him.

What don’t you think I will remain in him?




JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Please don’t say things like this.

I know you want to remain in Christ just like the rest of us.

It’s not my theology, by the way, it’s the words of Christ.

• Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
John 15:1-7




JLB

Your theology says..you sin, then die of unreperntant said..you go to hell.

so I can say...you won't remain in Christ. Your theology sends people to hell,

 

[Cygnus]

Thanks for your opinion, but I will respectfully disagree.


Jesus wants us to remain in Him.

What don’t you think I will remain in him?




JLB

You sin....when you sin you don't remain in Him....or else you don't sin, which you do sin,

 

[JLB]

Your theology says..you sin, then die of unreperntant said..you go to hell.

so I can say...you won't remain in Christ. Your theology sends people to hell,

So you believe Christians can live in unrepentant sin and die that way and still go to heaven?


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8



JLB

 

[JLB]

You sin....when you sin you don't remain in Him....or else you don't sin, which you do sin,

• Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:12-15

• Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

• Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:12-15

• Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

JLB

Your reasoning is too cut and dry.
You don't leave any room for God to decide for himself, you've already decided for him.