Forever Secure

[Rollo Tamasi]

You have misinterpreted 1 John 1:7-10.
John is addressing the church about two very different men/kinds of walk.
Some of the verses pertain to those in darkness, (v 6,8,10), and some pertain to those who walk in the light. (v 5,7,9)
It is those who walk in darkness who cannot say they have no sin, but verse 7 makes it clear we can instead walk in the light, God, and the blood of His Son cleanseth all of them from ALL sin.
If Jesus' blood has washed away all our past sins, why can't we testify to that?


It is written..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

What you're not saying is that it is impossible to be perfect.
So how do you explain that with the way you are using this verse?

 

[JLB]

Do you have like a loop hole...and say, forgive me of the sins I have forgotten? Just how does it work for you guys who keep falling in and out of salvation?

I would suggest you slow down enough to be able to remember all your sins.

 

[Cygnus]

Dude, you're the one who asked, "what must one do to be saved?"
Here's the conversation:






No, you weren't talking about someone who is already saved.
If you want to now address the issue of the person who is already saved, then fine.
If anything got convoluted here you did it.
Do you want to continue to talk about what one must do to be saved, or do you now want to talk about people who are already saved?

You mentioned asking of forgiveness...I then mentioned all forgiveness isn't about salvation....what ever dude.

 

[Cygnus]

If I commit a sin, I confess my sin to God.

He forgives me and cleanses me.

How about you. Do you confess your sins to God in order to be forgiven?

I'm already cleansed and have had the righteousness of Jesus imputed to me...as ALL of my sins have been imputed to Christ Jesus. Even future sins.

When I NOW confess and repent it's more of a restore the fellowship thing rather than salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

I would suggest you slow down enough to be able to remember all your sins.

Both of you are now dodging the question..which raises RED flags.

Reading your post it sounds as if you have any un-confessed sin you are in extreme danger of going to hell if you would die.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I firmly believe Freegrace OSAS is a bona-fide doctrine of demons if there ever was one. The depth of control this doctrine has in people and their inability to hear the truth, even when you show it to them in the plain words of the Bible, is what convinces me of that.

You are correct. He does not give his Spirit to those who don't love him nor listen to him, but he does save those who are his.

His Spirit is what saves us and we who love him and obey have been united forever with him.

John 14:15-17 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Mark 10:8 and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

John 14:20 On that day (the day he enters covenant with you) you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

You are not his if you've lost salvation. He is greater than you, he is greater than all. He is able to accomplish what he started in us. He is God and he is able. Does that not ring true to you?

 

[Hopeful]

What you're not saying is that it is impossible to be perfect.
So how do you explain that with the way you are using this verse?

Jesus wouldn't tell us to do the impossible, in Matt 5:48 or anywhere else.
Neither would Paul, who wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
There are also writings by Peter and John stating we can remain obedient to God all the time.
It is "possible".

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Do you have like a loop hole...and say, forgive me of the sins I have forgotten? Just how does it work for you guys who keep falling in and out of salvation?

But WHO is giving Salvation guarantee on Earth? This I do not understand. This is totally the prerogative of God the Father and God the Son. NO human can give guarantees of Salvation to anyone on Earth, lest they be accused on the Last day of playing God . We can only do our best and leave to our Christ the rest.
In the future vision Christ gives us about Goats and Sheep, He clearly says many non obeying Christian's will be condemned by Chrst himself on that fateful day. Every work of every person will be laid bare on the judgment table and Christ " assures" in Revelation 22:12 : “Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has DONE"
(same as Goats n Sheep parable / vision).
I have often heard this question from Church elders and teachers of my former Church "Raj how much obedience do I need to be saved ? " Its a crafty question. But there is Christ's answer for it. It lays captured in the great Commission Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS I HAVE COMMANDED YOU and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age"
So if somebody asks me how much obedience they need to be saved, I promptly tell 'em to ask the Lord the question " Lord I cannot keep ALL your commands then why do you ask me to?"
Well brother whether we like it or not we will yet have to strive our most and do our best to obey. We will still have to pick up our cross , deny our flesh daily and follow the Lord ( Luke 9:23)
And yes we WILL stumble and fall, and get up again and pick up our cross again and resume our walk, just like our Lord did....
I quote what brother JLB said in a previous post what apostle John teaches in 1John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
But we still have to do the walk.
Also, we must not forget that Christ does NOT want those ( disciples) who flock to him for getting SAVED ( rather than to SERVE ) .
Consider these repeated caveats / warnings of Christ for every salvation seeker and life lovers. These verses are seldom taught in majority of the Churches who mostly keep teaching and assuring Salvation to every believer :
John 12:25 : Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Matthew 16:25
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Mark 8:35
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it.

Luke 9:24
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 17:33
Whoever tries to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it.
From all these verses I have come to the conclusion that unless I'm ready to lay down my life for the Lord ( if the occassion should arise), just as He did for us, there is no reward for me. He gave His all for me, and now wants ALL from me, including my life, if needed (Luke 14:26, . And after a long time, I'm ready.. finally! ?? It took me years to shake off my cowardice and life love to become ready for the Lord . Sorry it was a long post guys . My apologies ?
Christ in John 15 :13 "There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

 

[JLB]

I'm already cleansed and have had the righteousness of Jesus imputed to me...as ALL of my sins have been imputed to Christ Jesus. Even future sins.

Do you have a scripture that says Jesus already forgave future sins?


JLB

 

[JLB]

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Yes we know it’s God’s will that none should perish.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Both of you are now dodging the question..which raises RED flags.

Reading your post it sounds as if you have any un-confessed sin you are in extreme danger of going to hell if you would die.

Please stop lying.

Im still waiting for you to answer this question that I have asked many times, which you blatantly refuse to answer, now you have the nerve to say I haven’t answered your question.


What a joke!


Here it is again as well as the scripture from which the question is asked.


I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Do you believe a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?



JLB

 

[JLB]

When I NOW confess and repent it's more of a restore the fellowship thing rather than salvation.

Go ahead and post the scripture for your claim.


Make your you show us the difference between fellowship and relationship.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm already cleansed and have had the righteousness of Jesus imputed to me..

Please post the scripture and context that says what you claim.

Accounted righteousness is what we receive when we believe.

Now that we have His righteousness, His Spirit, His life dwelling within us, we are to walk according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the flesh.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You mentioned asking of forgiveness...I then mentioned all forgiveness isn't about salvation....what ever dude.

Which sin doesn’t pertain to salvation ?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus wouldn't tell us to do the impossible, in Matt 5:48 or anywhere else.
Neither would Paul, who wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
There are also writings by Peter and John stating we can remain obedient to God all the time.
It is "possible".

Never met one.
You must be the first.

 

[Cygnus]

Do you have a scripture that says Jesus already forgave future sins?


JLB

It has already been posted. You responded to it the first time. You lost your argument. Didn't you learn from that post?

 

[Cygnus]

Go ahead and post the scripture for your claim.


Make your you show us the difference between fellowship and relationship.



JLB

We've already discussed this...did you not learn the first time around?

 

[Cygnus]

Which sin doesn’t pertain to salvation ?

Any sins committed now or in the future. We've discussed this already.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

His Spirit is what saves us and we who love him and obey have been united forever with him.

That's right.
That's why you should continue to believe and trust in him and be saved when he returns.
Why throw away a salvation that lasts forever?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

That's right.
You won't be lost because of any incompetence on Jesus' part.
You'll be lost because you quit believing and trusting in him.
And refused to come back in the time he gave you to come back.
That's why we're exhorted to hold onto our confidence in such a great High Priest and Ministry.

14 ...since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven...let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
Hebrews 10:4:14

21 ...since we have a great priest over the house of God...
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:21,23

What I've noticed is if you understand the Non-OSAS passages plainly for what they say they do not contradict the verses erroneously interpreted as OSAS.
But if you take the passages that are used to defend OSAS and read them that way they contradict the Non-OSAS passages. That makes OSAS then twist the Non-OSAS passages to conform to it's beliefs.
OSAS is a mess.
The scriptures don't really mean what they say in OSAS.
That's why I abandoned OSAS teachings.
Just go by what the Bible plainly says......the whole counsel of the Bible, not verses isolated and conveniently picked out of context.
I have noticed that virtually all false doctrines are created by not rightly dividing the word of God. That is, they divide a verse or passage of scripture out improperly from everything else the Bible says about a particular subject.