Forever Secure

[Jethro Bodine]

If you have zero works then you have NEVER been saved...as faith will produce works.

But you used 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 as proof that you don't have to have works to be saved.
Not to mention that you have been saying you are still saved even if you go back to unbelief.
And now you're saying no works means you've never been saved to begin with because true faith will produce works.

I run into this duplicity all the time when talking to Freegrace OSAS believers.
Which arguments do you want to go with, because you can't have all of these beliefs at the same time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Case in point. Another Baptist preacher, 54-year-old J. L. Pettit, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. He was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959)."

I firmly believe Freegrace OSAS is a bona-fide doctrine of demons if there ever was one. The depth of control this doctrine has in people and their inability to hear the truth, even when you show it to them in the plain words of the Bible, is what convinces me of that.

 

[Cygnus]

The 'non-osas crowd' teaches there is a consequence for stealing, lying, etc......eternal condemnation. Therefore NT belief does not allow for stealing, lying, etc.

OSAS gives a free pass to sinning with no consequence.

I have read that in the very early history of this country atheists were not allowed to testify in court hearings. Reason being atheists do not believe in God, heaven or hell. Therefore telling a lie would be no different than telling the truth to an atheist....no consequence. Atheists could not be trusted to tell the truth.

Your belief says...if you steal, lie, etc.....you go to hell. Justify that.

 

[Cygnus]

Let's see if asking for forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with salvation:

"...His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Colossians 1:13-14

"7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" - Ephesians 1:7

"13 ...‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14

I'm going to go with the scriptures on this one.
That's why I don't get this theology that says simply acknowledging Christ as God all by itself somehow saves a person. The demons know that, better than any human, and it doesn't save them. Obviously, acknowledging Christ as the risen Son of God implies you believe in and receive the forgiveness of sin that God offers through his Sacrifice.

Dude...I'm speaking of someone who is already saved. Sheeze, why do you convolute everything?

 

[Cygnus]

The context is about converts that will be judged to be lost.

He himself will be saved,

Do you need to read it again????? He himself will be saved,

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

He himself will be saved,

Do you need to read it again????? He himself will be saved,

The "he" is the one who did the work to make the convert. If Paul's convert is judged to be lost then he-Paul will still be saved if he remains faithful himself 1 Cor 9:27.
Paul referred to his Corinthian converts as his 'work' 1 Cor 9:1

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Your belief says...if you steal, lie, etc.....you go to hell. Justify that.

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (I see NO EXCEPTIONS being made for anyone.)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I firmly believe Freegrace OSAS is a bona-fide doctrine of demons if there ever was one. The depth of control this doctrine has in people and their inability to hear the truth, even when you show it to them in the plain words of the Bible, is what convinces me of that.

OSAS was first taught by Satan in the garden of Eden. God told Adam and Eve "thou shalt surely die" but Satan told them " Ye shall not surely die".

 

[Cygnus]

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (I see NO EXCEPTIONS being made for anyone.)

Do you not understand your own faith condemns you to hell? I have to chuckle at people who push this theology. You are guilty of committing at least one of these sins. What's your loop hole? How you escaping hell?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Do you not understand your own faith condemns you to hell? I have to chuckle at people who push this theology. You are guilty of committing at least one of these sins. What's your loop hole? How you escaping hell?

I never claimed to be perfectly sinless, Christians do sin 1 Jn 1:7-10. But God does NOT require me to be flawlessly perfectly sinless to be saved. All God requires of me is to have a faithful obedience which means I strive (Lk 13:24) to do as God says but repent when I fall short for God requires repentance (Lk 13:3).

Gal 5:21 "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do (present tense) such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Those who impenitently continue (present tense) in sin will not be saved...no exceptions.

Do you err in thinking God requires man to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved? Or do you err in thinking God will unconditionally forgives and save those that do not repent?

 

[JLB]

Your belief says...if you steal, lie, etc.....you go to hell. Justify that.

Do you believe God the Father?


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

 

[JLB]

Do you not understand your own faith condemns you to hell? I have to chuckle at people who push this theology. You are guilty of committing at least one of these sins. What's your loop hole? How you escaping hell?

Confess your sins and be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

 

[Cygnus]

I never claimed to be perfectly sinless, Christians do sin 1 Jn 1:7-10. But God does NOT require me to be flawlessly perfectly sinless to be saved. All God requires of me is to have a faithful obedience which means I strive (Lk 13:24) to do as God says but repent when I fall short for God requires repentance (Lk 13:3).

Gal 5:21 "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do (present tense) such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Those who impenitently continue (present tense) in sin will not be saved...no exceptions.

Do you err in thinking God requires man to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved? Or do you err in thinking God will unconditionally forgives and save those that do not repent?

So, just how much striving is enough?

 

[Hopeful]

Let's see if asking for forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with salvation:

"...His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Colossians 1:13-14

"7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" - Ephesians 1:7

"13 ...‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14

I'm going to go with the scriptures on this one.
That's why I don't get this theology that says simply acknowledging Christ as God all by itself somehow saves a person. The demons know that, better than any human, and it doesn't save them. Obviously, acknowledging Christ as the risen Son of God implies you believe in and receive the forgiveness of sin that God offers through his Sacrifice.

I liked your Col. and Eph. scriptures, and noticed the phrase "in Him" used in both.
As there is no sin "in Christ", there are also no sinners "in Christ".
Those outside of Christ have no redemption or forgiveness, as they are only available "in Christ".
Repentance from sin is always available to them, if they ever decide to serve God instead of lust.

 

[Cygnus]

Do you believe God the Father?


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

JLB..sounds like you too have doomed yourself to hell. You still sin. You need that sin forgiven.

 

[Cygnus]

Confess your sins and be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

Do you have like a loop hole...and say, forgive me of the sins I have forgotten? Just how does it work for you guys who keep falling in and out of salvation?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Dude...I'm speaking of someone who is already saved. Sheeze, why do you convolute everything?

Dude, you're the one who asked, "what must one do to be saved?"
Here's the conversation:

What must one do to be saved?

To believe that Jesus is God.

Anything in there about asking for and receiving forgiveness for your sins?

I ask for forgiveness all the time...but it has nothing to do with salvation.

Let's see if asking for forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with salvation:

"...His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Colossians 1:13-14

"7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" - Ephesians 1:7

"13 ...‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14

I'm going to go with the scriptures on this one.
That's why I don't get this theology that says simply acknowledging Christ as God all by itself somehow saves a person. The demons know that, better than any human, and it doesn't save them. Obviously, acknowledging Christ as the risen Son of God implies you believe in and receive the forgiveness of sin that God offers through his Sacrifice.

Dude...I'm speaking of someone who is already saved. Sheeze, why do you convolute everything?

No, you weren't talking about someone who is already saved.
If you want to now address the issue of the person who is already saved, then fine.
If anything got convoluted here you did it.
Do you want to continue to talk about what one must do to be saved, or do you now want to talk about people who are already saved?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you have like a loop hole...and say, forgive me of the sins I have forgotten? Just how does it work for you guys who keep falling in and out of salvation?

You don't fall in and out of salvation.
That is not allowed.
You stay in your salvation by having your sins covered through your continuing faith in the blood of Christ.
The person who departs from the faith is the one who will eventually lose his salvation.
The example of the Galatians and the Corinthians show us that God will make some attempt to bring you back.
Hebrews 6:4-6 shows us that once he gives you over to your unbelief you can't come back. He doesn't allow that.

 

[Hopeful]

I never claimed to be perfectly sinless, Christians do sin 1 Jn 1:7-10. But God does NOT require me to be flawlessly perfectly sinless to be saved. All God requires of me is to have a faithful obedience which means I strive (Lk 13:24) to do as God says but repent when I fall short for God requires repentance (Lk 13:3).

You have misinterpreted 1 John 1:7-10.
John is addressing the church about two very different men/kinds of walk.
Some of the verses pertain to those in darkness, (v 6,8,10), and some pertain to those who walk in the light. (v 5,7,9)
It is those who walk in darkness who cannot say they have no sin, but verse 7 makes it clear we can instead walk in the light, God, and the blood of His Son cleanseth all of them from ALL sin.
If Jesus' blood has washed away all our past sins, why can't we testify to that?

Do you err in thinking God requires man to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved? Or do you err in thinking God will unconditionally forgives and save those that do not repent?

It is written..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

 

[JLB]

JLB..sounds like you too have doomed yourself to hell. You still sin. You need that sin forgiven.

If I commit a sin, I confess my sin to God.

He forgives me and cleanses me.

How about you. Do you confess your sins to God in order to be forgiven?