Forever Secure

[Cygnus]

I haven't said anything like that.

I say you must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved.
No works brownie points involved.
You have been deceived into thinking 'believing' is 'working'.

There is no verse in the bible that makes that statement.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Trusting in Christ is what we do in order to be saved.

No, this is not what we do in order to be saved. That is not biblical and nor is it the truth.

Believe the Christ has come in the flesh and raised from the dead is the saving power of the gospel.

You are not seeing it because you have not humbled yourself like a child.

I don't want to hear your rationalization that demons know who he is. What matters is the believing powers of humans and the supernatural.

 

[JLB]

Once again you have posted something that is not in the bible....." there is nothing that can separate the person who wants to be saved and remain saved from their salvation."

Please post the scripture that says this?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


There are lots of brothers and sisters in Christ that “want to be saved” yet they have hate towards other brothers and sisters.


No one “wants to go to hell”.

“Wanting to be saved” is not the prerequisite for salvation, believing is.

Those who continue to believe will continue to be saved.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Saved people must “hold fast“ to that word by which they were saved.


If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.


I simply don’t see how you could disagree with believing to be saved.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Bogus....think about it....who you are as a person is based upon life events. What you've seen, where you've been, who you've met etc..

All that does is reveal who you really are.
Circumstances don't make you, they reveal the hidden potential of who you really are.
Those things simply reveal the potential your soil has for loving righteousness and hating unrighteousness.
Those who are revealed to have the potential to receive, retain, and bring the word of God to fruition are those whom God will let enter into the kingdom of God at the end of the age when the age of testing and revealing is completed.

According to free-willism depending upon the cards life dealt you, you may or may not become a believer. Salvation is based upon Gods purpose not your lifestyle.

God's purpose is that sin reveal who will love it and who will reject it when subjected to the knowledge of good and evil. Your lifestyle is only the display of what's really inside of you and what you love and what you don't.

 

[Cygnus]

Brother, why would say such a thing?

You don’t get to misrepresent me, or anyone else at the s Forum sir.

This is a warning. Don’t make up things I didn’t say and claim I added those words to the verse.

DONT DO THIS AGAIN.





This is a flagrant violation of the TOS.

Copy and paste what I actually wrote.

Don’t make up something I didn’t write, and add it to the verse as if those were my words.

That’s called a lie!



JLB

So, now the administrator is flexing their muscle....not cool.

You may not have literally said those words but when you claim if you don't walk in the light salvation is lost....you're basically adding the words I tacked on to the verse.

No where does that verse say if you no longer walk in the light you'll be lost.

 

[LovethroughDove]

We trust Jesus because we know who he is! You don't hang on by a thread because you are "trusting" someone you think you know.

 

[JLB]

No, this is not what we do in order to be saved. That is not biblical and nor is it the truth.

Believe the Christ has come in the flesh and raised from the dead is the saving power of the gospel.

You are not seeing it because you have not humbled yourself like a child.

I don't want to hear your rationalization that demons know who he is. What matters is the believing powers of humans and the supernatural.

Believing, trust, commit to obey, are all definitions of the original Greek word for believe.

Surely you know that? Right?

How can you believe someone you don’t trust.

Believe — Strongs G4100 — pisteuō

The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

 

[LovethroughDove]

Believing, trust, commit to obey, are all definitions of the original Greek word for believe.

Surely you know that? Right?

How can you believe someone you don’t trust.

Believe — Strongs G4100 — pisteuō

The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

I have to leave right now, but I'll be back later today. The Believe he is looking for..........."evidence of things not seen"

We have evidence that Jesus is the Christ (Lord) and he has been raised from the dead. This is our belief and it is saving belief. That is the gospel

 

[Cygnus]

Please post the scripture that says this?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


There are lots of brothers and sisters in Christ that “want to be saved” yet they have hate towards other brothers and sisters.


No one “wants to go to hell”.

“Wanting to be saved” is not the prerequisite for salvation, believing is.

Those who continue to believe will continue to be saved.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Saved people must “hold fast“ to that word by which they were saved.


If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.


I simply don’t see how you could disagree with believing to be saved.



JLB

Once again you are taking the verse out of context. The context of 1 Cor 15:1-2 is the resurrection. If they didn't believe in the resurrection then they were believing in vain.

 

[JLB]

So, now the administrator is flexing their muscle....not cool.

You better believe I’m going to call you out for making up lies about what I post. That is what is not cool.

Since I’m the Moderator over this forum I will monitor the things being said here.


1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

1.5: No trolling. No flaming or remarks used to intentionally upset members. Intentional disruption of this nature may result in immediate termination of your membership.

Please just copy and paste what I actually say.


If you have a valid biblical doctrine you should not need to make up things a person didn’t say to make your point.


Please just use scripture to make your point.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I have to leave right now, but I'll be back later today. The Believe he is looking for..........."evidence of things not seen"

We have evidence that Jesus is the Christ (Lord) and he has been raised from the dead. This is our belief and it is saving belief. That is the gospel

Ok. Take your time. We all enjoy discussing these things with you. let’s discuss the actual Gospel and the words used in the Gospel so we can be on the same page.

See you when you return.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Once again you are taking the verse out of context. The context of 1 Cor 15:1-2 is the resurrection. If they didn't believe in the resurrection then they were believing in vain.

So it’s not about the Gospel, and holding fast to the Gospel message by which we were saved?

• the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Maybe you could address the words of this scripture rather than what I didn’t say.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, this is not what we do in order to be saved. That is not biblical and nor is it the truth.

Believe the Christ has come in the flesh and raised from the dead is the saving power of the gospel.

Implicit in believing that Christ is the Messiah is that he is the High Priest through which your sins are forgiven.
Even the demons believe that Christ came in the flesh and is risen from the dead. That alone doesn't save anybody.
If it did, demons would be saved.
The difference between believers and demons is they don't rely and trust in what Jesus coming in the flesh means.

"19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." - James 2:19

I know you resist this, but there it is in the Bible.

You are not seeing it because you have not humbled yourself like a child.

Pure bunk.
This is my salvation experience exactly:

"13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” - Luke 18:13-14

You don't get justified by simply knowing that Jesus is the Messiah.
You get justified by recognizing and accepting the just penalty of death for your sins and falling on his mercy and asking him to forgive you. No one who is not humble like that gets justified. I did in fact humble myself and are justified, just like the tax collector in the passage above. Do not tell me I have not humbled myself.

I don't want to hear your rationalization that demons know who he is. What matters is the believing powers of humans and the supernatural.

It's not my rationalization. It's what the Bible says.
You are not wanting to hear what James says.
What else can I do?
Nothing, of course.
You are rejecting the word of God, not me.
Religious discussion comes to an end when a person decides they do not believe that the word of God is inspired.

I suspect, based on what you've said, that you don't have a Luke 18:13-14 kind of conversion experience.
I have talked to more than one person on-line who's view of salvation is skewed because they don't have this.
I suspect you are actually the one who has yet to humble themselves as a child. Until you have a Luke 18:13-14 experience you have not done this.

 

[Cygnus]

You better believe I’m going to call you out for making up lies about what I post.

Since I’m the Moderator over this forum I will monitor the things being said here.


1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

1.5: No trolling. No flaming or remarks used to intentionally upset members. Intentional disruption of this nature may result in immediate termination of your membership.

Please just copy and paste what I actually say.


If you have a valid biblical doctrine you should not need to make up things a person didn’t say to make your point.


Please just use scripture to make your point.





JLB

What I did was present to you what you essentially were saying. The commentary you presented about the verse agreed with what was added to the scripture....you made an assumption...I pointed out the error..and you flexed your muscle.

I did not violate 1.4 NOR 1.5. If you can show where I was trolling, flaming or intentionally trying to upset members...cut and paste them or retract your accusation of my violating the rules.

 

[JLB]

What I did was present to you what you essentially were saying. The commentary you presented about the verse agreed with what was added to the scripture....you made an assumption...I pointed out the error..and you flexed your muscle.

Go ahead and copy and paste what I said and we will see if it matches you claimed I said.

If it would have, you would have copy and pasted the first time I asked.


Please just use scripture to make your point.




JLB

 

[Cygnus]

So it’s not about the Gospel, and holding fast to the Gospel message by which we were saved?

• the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Maybe you could address the words of this scripture rather than what I didn’t say.



JLB

Holding fast means grasping the gospel...claiming the gospel is the truth...when you are regenerated and claim the gospel, hold fast to the gospel....you are also saved. The verse is about your initial salvation. The verse is not about remaining saved. People add to the thought and context by making the verse more than it is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, now the administrator is flexing their muscle....not cool.

You may not have literally said those words but when you claim if you don't walk in the light salvation is lost....you're basically adding the words I tacked on to the verse.

No where does that verse say if you no longer walk in the light you'll be lost.

If not walking in the light is the result of no longer believing/trusting in Christ you will indeed lose the justification you had received through faith in Christ.

"2 Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." - Galatians 5:2

OSAS has to make this passage not really mean what it plainly says in order to defend itself.
Watch.

 

[Cygnus]

Go ahead and copy and paste what I said and we will see if it matches you claimed I said.

If it would have, you would have copy and pasted the first time I asked.


Please just use scripture to make your point.




JLB

From reading the post you presented what I get from it is that your claim is that if you don't "hold fast" to the gospel...that is no longer believe in the gospel....you lose your salvation. Is that your belief?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Holding fast means grasping the gospel...claiming the gospel is the truth...when you are regenerated and claim the gospel, hold fast to the gospel....you are also saved. The verse is about your initial salvation. The verse is not about remaining saved. People add to the thought and context by making the verse more than it is.

Check it out for yourself. Hold fast and saved are in the present tense.
You are presently saved if you are presently holding fast the word you first heard.
It's a conditional statement.
You are not presently saved if you are not presently holding fast the word you first heard.
You have to fulfill the condition of presently believing in order to be presently saved.

Calvinism says all believers will continue to believe because God issued you your believing.
Freegrace says the passage is just plain false. You are still saved even if you don't continue to believe.

 

[Cygnus]

If not walking in the light is the result of no longer believing/trusting in Christ you will indeed lose the justification you had received through faith in Christ.

"2 Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." - Galatians 5:2

OSAS has to make this passage not really mean what it plainly says in order to defend itself.
Watch.

If you kept on reading rather than using your snippet cut and paste out of context technique you would have discovered the verse was saying if you think circumcision is a requirement for salvation then you need to keep all of the law.

A suggestion for you...prior to posting a verse look it up and read several verses before and after the snippet. In failing to do that you posted Gal 5:2 out of context.