Fornication is still illegal

[jasonc]

Use wisdom. Feeding your children food produced by unbelieving farmers has no effect on your children. Letting unbelievers teach your children that the Bible is a myth may have eternal consequences.

use wisdom? so its a sin that a single parent who has no ability to teach or the money to pay for it must send their child to the school system? its hard yes but well don't assume Your child is safe in any Christian school. they aren't. I have heard that concerned voiced by a member of a church who had a school and he even said yes sin will find its way in any school. kids will still ignore you and find out for themselves. a parent wherever they send their kids must be as vigilant. unless you suggest caging the kids up and not allowing them to make friends that are sinners.

I was a Jehovah witness, it doesn't get more isolated then they are, and yet well my brother ( I didn't until older and in the army) sinned with beer, pot(never did that) and fornication.im all for homeschooling and or private schooling but again unless they take the parents voice from them. and they haven't in my state. we can opt out of sex ed, then its not a sin.

I do know that many Christian school teach science but how can they answer the evolutionist if they don't know the basics of the theory to debunk it? I know a school that doesn't teach it. which I disagree. teach it to them so that they can find the problems with it. not avoid it all together.

monica , which is doing all that she can. she cant send both her kids to Christian schools. she cant afford it. she is sending the youngest to the church preschool and possibly kindergarten. the state pays for that. if it still does. if not then well I know monica will have to make a decision. I would have to ask. I don't want the state to send money for religious schools. what you all don't know is that the state can force homeschoolers and private schoolers to answer to the state if they feel the need that they aren't at where they should be. a homeschooled kids curriculum must be signed off(tested for this grade) by a certified teacher. so that the state knows that the kids is educated. it can be a farce. a coworker homeschools his kids and said he could if he didn't care make it a farce and showed me how easy it is. no teacher will go through the material by page by page to see. YOU the parent must ensure YOUR kid is being taught right and have the ability to teach. I lack such abilities. I suck with kids.

 

[Michael74]

The Bible commands parents to train their children up in the way they should go. Obey or not. Its your choice.

Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NIV

 

[jasonc]

The Bible commands parents to train their children up in the way they should go. Obey or not. Its your choice.

Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NIV

that doesn't address my statement of there is NO church private school. they cant homeschool. don't nor aid to attend. like that doesn't happen. nor does it deal with that YOU can still send your kid to those schools for now and still make good Christians out of them. we cant avoid sin and live in a bubble. we can only do what we are able to. are you a father? yes or no?

also is it a sin to teach your kids that god created the world via scientific theories as taught via natural science? I know some godly men that to , I know one personally and he isn't on this forum. he and his ex wife were biologists and while not perfect. they did homeschool their kids and taught them in the theories I mentioned and both are saved. where they perfect? NO, did they sin? sure teens do that. they came back. I disagree with the cosmology of origins and biological theory of origins but both kids are saved. the parents then must have done something right.

I was going to mention the father anyway as he said something a few days ago on fb, he is still saved. so don't think all Christian in your church believe in creationism, they don't. my brother is an old earth creationist. he would teach somehow there is a pause in genesis 2 or something like that. yet I know him. he is a leader in his home. he isn't perfect and made a mistake. he raised his oldest the best he could that fell away. she went to Christian private school as long as he while divorced could afford to pay for it. he raised her not to do drugs and have sex. yet her mother and my brother separated and well the oldest and the middle child were affected but the oldest has fell away.one could say my brothers failure lead to that but that was nearly 12 years ago. my brother worked only job and let his home go so that he could be a dad to his kids. yet despite all that the oldest made some bad decisions. so there is NO guarantee here.

his middle child is doing much differently and is a different person and will not likely make that mistake.

 

[Kenny_ms]

The Bible commands parents to train their children up in the way they should go. Obey or not. Its your choice.

We also need to consider our children need to be trained to live in the real world and to live among unbelievers. It might be nice if we could home school up to a certain age but everyone doesn't have that luxury. I probably have no business commenting on something I know little to nothing about, but it seems to me, public school could be an advantage in some ways as long as we stay right on top of things with the child's christian education, especially in the early years.

 

[jasonc]

like colleges aren't bastions of sin? right, sure. I may not post like I have any education but I do have an a.a.s. try being pure with the female flesh that Is shown in classes. fortunately for me, I was saved and older then most in there and I wanted to learn not simply figure out what I wanted to and fornicate with all that moved. still I was tempted. at some point the child will have to be ready for the world and flop around learn from his or her mistakes. they must. I did, man I was stupid. I wish I avoided those trouble makers but oh well. wisdom often comes from not doing what you should have.we love to learn the hard way. but sometimes that is the only way we will learn and God says well ok ay don't listen to me then, have at that sin and sits back waiting for you finnaly get it!

 

[reba]

after working in a small public school... less then 1000 kids K through 12.. i would not send my kids to public school if at all possible..

 

[reba]

OOPS this is off topic... and guess what Jason and i are posting what a surprise...

 

[jasonc]

after working in a small public school... less then 1000 kids K through 12.. i would not send my kids to public school if at all possible..

of course, but well funny I just observed at person debating on my brothers wall on fb about gender dysphoria and he didn't see as a sin but as some physch issue and well taught at a Baptist university thus well making my point. he claims jesus.

 

[Michael74]

...it seems to me, public school could be an advantage in some ways as long as we stay right on top of things with the child's christian education, especially in the early years.

Yet each succeeding generation trained up by unbelievers gets further and further away from the Lord. Its just not working Ken.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Yet each succeeding generation trained up by unbelievers gets further and further away from the Lord. Its just not working Ken.

There could be several reasons for that. Granted the education system isn't helping and just letting your kid out there in the world may not help either, but you can't keep them under your wing all their lives. A lot of good can come from the education they get while they are at home.

The whole world is pulling away from God. School, TV, internet and tons of other contributors to that. I'm just not going to tell parents who have no other choice but to send their kids to a public school that they are disobeying God. Are you disobeying God with your lack of compassion towards those parents?

As mentioned, we are off topic, if it were my thread, I wouldn't care but it's not.

 

[jasonc]

so a child that is trained by YOU to love the Lord wont fall away? adam and eve, whom god created were the first to sin and well how well that work in paradise where there was but one temptation and temptor. the serpent! its makes it less likely that the child would but not impossible.

any article 125 sodomy and its elements and definition for those that aren't law enforcement the element is what defines what has to happened for the law to be broken and list examples.

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural sex or copulation
with another person of the same or opposite sex or with
an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however
slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.
(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by
punished as a court-martial may direct.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused engaged in unnatural carnal
copulation with a certain other person or with an
animal.
(Note: Add any of the following as applicable)
(2) That the act was done with a child under the
age of 12.
(3) That the act was done with a child who had
attained the age of 12 but was under the age of 16.
(4) That the act was done by force and without
the consent of the other person.
c. Explanation. It is unnatural carnal copulation for
a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the
sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to
place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or
anus of another person or of an animal; or to have
carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except
the sexual parts, with another person; or to have
carnal copulation with an animal.
d. Lesser included offenses.
(1) With a child under the age of 16.
(a) Article 125—forcible sodomy (and offenses
included therein; see subparagraph (2) below)
(b) Article 80—attempts
(2) Forcible sodomy.
( a ) A r t i c l e 1 2 5 — s o d o m y ( a n d o f f e n s e s Included
therein; see
subparagraph (3) below)
(b) Article 134—assault with intent to commit
sodomy
(c) Article 80—attempts.
(3) Sodomy. Article 80—attempts

odd I have read that twice and that sodomy is rape for men, there is the ucmj against rape, yet this is nearly rape with an unnatural act and I have been told it was always this way. yet I have heard sodomy is a crime in the past whether consentual or not that says only if not consentual and a minor is involved. ok so nevermind , but I add adultery as well.

article 134 is a universal of what we didn't write about and it has adultery. the gist of it.

62. Article 134—(Adultery)
a. Text of statute. See paragraph 60.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse
with a certain person;
(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other
person was married to someone else; and
(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of
the accused was to the prejudice of good order and
discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to
bring discredit upon the armed forces.

mcm 2008. I have it on pdf and its not found online unless you have acess to the dod or a copy of it. I have a copy.

 

[Michael74]

...you can't keep them under your wing all their lives...

Nor are parents commanded to. Parents are only commanded to train their children up in the way they should go.

 

[Michael74]

...so a child that is trained by YOU to love the Lord wont fall away?

Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NIV

Believe the Bible or not. Obey the Bible or not. Make your choice.

 

[jasonc]

Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NIV

Believe the Bible or not. Obey the Bible or not. Make your choice.

with that I take it you aren't a dad.
I know parents who have raised their kids in a godly home. one of them we all know. billy grahams grandson was a prodigal and ran away and then repented later on, but he said I was so bad that my parents KICKED me out. I was out on the streets at 16 to 21. he made that choice. he said he didn't believe until he was 21, If I remember that story right. so how its possible that he ran from God if he never knew him? and also what if he died in that sin. he wouldn't be in heaven.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Parents are only commanded to train their children up in the way they should go.

And there is no verse that precisely forbids sending a child to a public school. Train em up at home and saying that can't be done and done well, would be mere opinion, not Biblical.

 

[Runner]

Laws in Florida, Michigan and Mississippi make it illegal for the unmarried to “lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together.” What do you think? Is there any possibility that we may ever return to 'One nation, under God"? Will there ever be a time when we, as a society, are able to enact righteousness? Or will we prefer the comfort of pretense and go forward unwilling to change?

Does anyone seriously think there ever was "One nation, under God"? It was merely a slogan when it was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, as it is today. It may have been less obviously a slogan a hundred or two hundred years ago because the citizenry back then at least did a better job of paying lip service to God than we do now, but human nature was the same then as now and the underlying reality was little different. England during the Victorian Era was, on paper, a model of godliness - but the reality was staggeringly different. Ditto for America.

Regardless of whether we are ever able to "enact righteousness," we will never successfully enact righteousness because human nature is what it is. The tiny minority who seriously try to follow God's laws don't need civil and criminal laws to tell them what to do, and the large majority who don't even try to follow God's laws wouldn't care or change their behavior even if the Ten Commandments were all made class 1 felonies. If fornication were made a class 1 felony and the laws were scrupulously enforced, does anyone seriously think the "rate of fornication" would decline significantly? Check out the War on Drugs for how successful that approach is.

What we will return to, if right-wing Christians and pseudo-Christians somehow achieve significant political power, is a society that does a somewhat better job of paying lip service to God, perhaps through the enactment of Puritanical civil and criminal laws, but accomplishes no meaningful change. Genuine change would take a wholesale transformation of human nature through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - and I see little evidence of any such transformation even within the four walls of Christianity, which looks to me pretty much like the rest of society.

It is interesting that the trend of society always seems to be in the direction of greater permissiveness and tolerance toward what a conservative Christian would deem sin. It seems that the moral spiral of human nature is inevitably downward, not upward. Has there ever been a society of any size that said, "Wait, we've gone too far - we need to return to our moral roots"? For our depraved society to decide it is going return to its moral roots strikes me as akin to a prostitute deciding she wants to be a virgin again. The point of no return was passed a long time ago, probably in the Garden of Eden. To some extent, I am in sympathy with those who welcome the new openness; I really don't think humans are wildly more depraved now than they were 50, 500 or 5,000 years ago, but at least now they don't hide their depravity behind phony lip service to God. The fact that our society is so openly depraved is depressing to me as a Christian, and I pray every day that God will bring an end to the depravity and restore His creation, but the decline is what the Bible tells us to expect and new laws against fornication, sodomy and whatnot are not even vaguely the solution.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (NIV).​

Paul could have added, "Of course, this is pretty much how people are now and always have been - but in the last days, they'll revel in their depravity and won't even pretend to be godly."

 

[jasonc]

Does anyone seriously think there ever was "One nation, under God"? It was merely a slogan when it was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, as it is today. It may have been less obviously a slogan a hundred or two hundred years ago because the citizenry back then at least did a better job of paying lip service to God than we do now, but human nature was the same then as now and the underlying reality was little different. England during the Victorian Era was, on paper, a model of godliness - but the reality was staggeringly different. Ditto for America.

Regardless of whether we are ever able to "enact righteousness," we will never successfully enact righteousness because human nature is what it is. The tiny minority who seriously try to follow God's laws don't need civil and criminal laws to tell them what to do, and the large majority who don't even try to follow God's laws wouldn't care or change their behavior even if the Ten Commandments were all made class 1 felonies. If fornication were made a class 1 felony and the laws were scrupulously enforced, does anyone seriously think the "rate of fornication" would decline significantly? Check out the War on Drugs for how successful that approach is.

What we will return to, if right-wing Christians and pseudo-Christians somehow achieve significant political power, is a society that does a somewhat better job of paying lip service to God, perhaps through the enactment of Puritanical civil and criminal laws, but accomplishes no meaningful change. Genuine change would take a wholesale transformation of human nature through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - and I see little evidence of any such transformation even within the four walls of Christianity, which looks to me pretty much like the rest of society.

It is interesting that the trend of society always seems to be in the direction of greater permissiveness and tolerance toward what a conservative Christian would deem sin. It seems that the moral spiral of human nature is inevitably downward, not upward. Has there ever been a society of any size that said, "Wait, we've gone too far - we need to return to our moral roots"? For our depraved society to decide it is going return to its moral roots strikes me as akin to a prostitute deciding she wants to be a virgin again. The point of no return was passed a long time ago, probably in the Garden of Eden. To some extent, I am in sympathy with those who welcome the new openness; I really don't think humans are wildly more depraved now than they were 50, 500 or 5,000 years ago, but at least now they don't hide their depravity behind phony lip service to God. The fact that our society is so openly depraved is depressing to me as a Christian, and I pray every day that God will bring an end to the depravity and restore His creation, but the decline is what the Bible tells us to expect and new laws against fornication, sodomy and whatnot are not even vaguely the solution.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (NIV).​

Paul could have added, "Of course, this is pretty much how people are now and always have been - but in the last days, they'll revel in their depravity and won't even pretend to be godly."

yet it is rampant in the churches that prior to the 60s that America was so godly. while certainly not as today I do think kids and the streets were safer then but well what about racism? try being a black man in a white town and a murder happened.

 

[Obadiah]

Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NIV

Believe the Bible or not. Obey the Bible or not. Make your choice.

However it's a matter of only your personal interpretation that this verse is specifically saying that home schooling in particular is commanded by God. The reality is there are many ways to train, including putting a child in a position of receiving training from other sources. That source could be just a book, or it could be a school. No child is ever going to be totally trained just by his own parents with no outside training adding to his life. However a child is trained, they are STILL going to be tempted by fornication should they ever encounter it. It WILL happen.

 

[Michael74]

However it's a matter of only your personal interpretation that this verse is specifically saying that home schooling in particular is commanded by God.

I'm not saying that at all. Parents can enlist the aid of others, as long as those others properly train children up in the way they should go. Parents are responsible for making sure the job gets done. Either directly, or by wisely choosing others who will get the job done.

If the public school system were getting the job done. If each generation of Americans were getting closer to the Lord, then I would say full speed ahead. However, the nation is going backward. The job is not getting done. Change is needed.

 

[Michael74]

...billy grahams grandson...

Actually this supports my thesis, since they made the mistake of letting the public school system raise Tullian for part of his childhood.