Fornication is still illegal

[Sparkey]

“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

Don't answer but try to remember the reaction of any of your Christian friends to your comment about their behavior. What did they say in reply when they were admonished against their fornication, or if you'd rather, their sexual immorality? I say, "Don't answer here," because I suspect that there will be no examples forthcoming. So brainwashed are we.

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."​

Some have asked for Scriptural support of my position that we are told to reprove sin. There are a number of Scriptures that could be used but what I do not see is something that condones the "Why even try?" attitude that we hear in this thread.

 

[Deborah13]

Ask yourselves if we were supposed to vote to remove and/or change the 'outdated laws' or 'old moral codes' how would you stand on the issue?

By the definition of fornication that you just posted, I would have to decline to vote on this issue.
When I became a voter, that meant to me that my voting would be based on the Constitution of the United States.
In this case, my vote of conscience would not be in line with the very rights of all citizens in these U.S. Our Constitution says, ALL men have freedom of religion. Fornication is worshiping other gods, among other things.

So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account."

I'm pretty sure the laws of Sodom didn't reflect God laws. God doesn't need the laws of men to be correct in order to save His people.
ie...
Not one Christian lost their life in 70 AD, if they obeyed what Jesus said to the apostles. 'Flee to the mountains."
Sounds very much like Lot and family fleeing Sodom. Don't look back, either. Lot's wife looked back. Pretty sure she is not what you were referring to as 'the salt of the earth'.

Some have asked for Scriptural support of my position that we are told to reprove sin.

Yes, reprove sin. One here has said that shouldn't be done.????

There are a number of Scriptures that could be used but what I do not see is something that condones the "Why even try?" attitude that we hear in this thread.

I don't hear an attitude of "Why even try?". I don't hear that at all.
What you are hearing from me is Preach the Gospel, scream it from the roof tops, preach it in the streets, preach it on the web, preach everywhere you can think of. Preach it to your friends, family, and enemies.

I'm not sure why you would think that Christians wouldn't point out a friend's sin to them. We love our friends, at least I do.

 

[jasonc]

Uhm.Jesus never told the Roman saved citizens to vote in the Torah.

 

[Michael74]

What did they say in reply when they were admonished against their fornication, or if you'd rather, their sexual immorality?

...you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 1 Corinthians 5:11b NIV

Shunning seems to be the Biblical prescription in such extreme cases. Presumably set in place by the pastor and elders of the church, after a thorough investigation to ascertain the truth.

If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 1 Corinthians 6:1 NIV

For minor stuff, the Bible commands those with wisdom within the church to mediate, rather than taking things before unbelievers. Would voting for laws to regulate morality be bypassing the church, and sending people directly to the "ungodly for judgment", instead of before the Lord's people?

Is enforcing morality a matter for the church, or something to be decided by the ungodly?

 

[Sparkey]

Uhm.Jesus never told the Roman saved citizens to vote in the Torah.

Paul invoked his rights as a Roman Citizen. It did not require more than the coincidence of his birth in Tarsus, a Roman free city within the province of Cilicia (Acts 22:3). Jason, in another thread, I've heard you ask something along the lines of, "Was that said by Jesus after the cross?" Are you implying now that we need Jesus permission to vote according to our conscious? That seems to be covered in James 4:17, "to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." If heathen ask me if it's okay to murder? My answer is predetermined.

Shunning seems to be the Biblical prescription in such extreme cases. Presumably set in place by the pastor and elders of the church, after a thorough investigation to ascertain the truth.

We do not need a Pastor for that nor does Paul mention going before the elders or Pastor but that would probably be a good idea. We are to refuse fellowship with those who falsely claim Christianity in such cases. The 1 Cor 6 verse directs us to the church over "disputes" between Christians. It refers to tort law, not criminal proceedings.

 

[Sparkey]

In this case, my vote of conscience would not be in line with the very rights of all citizens in these U.S. Our Constitution says, ALL men have freedom of religion. Fornication is worshiping other gods, among other things.

Thanks for the reply but my question did not require an answer. Let me just say that I appreciate your thoughtful contributions here. Here's a link to an article you may find of interest: Freedom of Religion and Other Quaint Notions

:nod Stuff like this makes me remember the complaint of Moses, right? Jethro, (Moses' father-in-law) said to him, "The thing that you do is not good. Both you and these people who are with you will surely wear yourselves out. For this thing is too much for you; you are not able to perform it by yourself."

We have a saying that is similar (but not quite the same) "Don't bite off more than you can chew," so I would withhold my hand from the insurmountable task of changing the ways of others especially when I still struggle within myself over such things. As far as voting goes? I am certain that my opinion is not the majority. Regrettably, it's not even the majority opinion among Christians (so called).

Lot's wife looked back. Pretty sure she is not what you were referring to as 'the salt of the earth'.

I got a chuckle outta that.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I don't hear an attitude of "Why even try?". I don't hear that at all.
What you are hearing from me is Preach the Gospel, scream it from the roof tops, preach it in the streets, preach it on the web, preach everywhere you can think of. Preach it to your friends, family, and enemies.

Beyond doing as you say and preaching the Gospel, Sparrow is right to a point on the "why even try", at least that's somewhat how I feel.

I guess it's probably and age old argument or at least an age old dilemma and not just concerning fornication but what's a Christian to do when the end times come around, try to turn it around? And I know no one knows the hour but I'd guess most would agree, the season is here, the end is close and prophesy is coming to pass. I see no sin in trying to get the world on the right track with any or all sin, but I just question.... well, why even try at this point in time?

So, I pose that question...why?

Again, yes, we should preach the Gospel, now more than ever but, what's a Christian to do when it all starts falling apart in leaps and bounds. What does the Bible say to do? Or does it? hide? tread lightly, boldly and loudly preach? And I know things aren't near as bad as they will get but this subject brings up the point, what to do now and further down the line concerning this matter?

Too much of a change of subject?

 

[jasonc]

So why support the first amendment if it's a sin to worship false gods? Do we want the government to decide we can't marry?

 

[Deborah13]

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-03-14/news/1994073075_1_fornication-discrimination-religion

Thanks, I agree with the author.

 

[Deborah13]

Again, yes, we should preach the Gospel, now more than ever but, what's a Christian to do when it all starts falling apart in leaps and bounds. What does the Bible say to do? Or does it? hide? tread lightly, boldly and loudly preach? And I know things aren't near as bad as they will get but this subject brings up the point, what to do now and further down the line concerning this matter?

What did the apostle do when they knew that the end of the temple Mosaic system was coming to an end? They preached the Gospel, gave their lives, literally, to preach the Gospel to the Jewish people, before everything the people knew and practiced, came tumbling down around their heads. Before they were killed, starved to death, or were taken into slavery and sent off to pagan civilizations. They knew the time was short, so they worked, doing the works of God.

 

[Sparkey]

Let me say that I very much appreciate the different thoughts and varying opinions that have been given here. And I don't mind at all how our topic has meandered around a bit. It's all relevant to today's Christianity.

When Paul spoke to the Romans he did not condone polytheism (didn't lie and say, "it's okay") but he did not approach them with condemnation either. He spoke to them about the "unknown God". He knew it would only alienate them if he attacked their idols so he exercised wisdom and told them in a way he knew they could accept.

There is a principle that has been established for us. I worry over this (free love -remember the 60's? I do) because it has saturated our society so much that even Christians can pretend that it's okay (quote, "If we're in love"). I wish I could stand and say that I've never fornicated but the truth of the matter is that I've never waited to be married and have pressured my partner into satisfying my need. I don't like saying that or admitting that I've been married more than once either but that is also true. The folly of my youth has taught me very well that God's law about this sin is very valid. Sin brings consequence. Maybe it's possible to engage in sexual immorality without great pain following but if that is so I've not seen it. At the very least it prevents us from being able to boldly appear before the throne of grace as we petition God for ourselves and friends.

Many of us, at one point or another, have been deceived and have either thought that God didn't care or that if He did, that we could make everything okay by getting married --eventually. That wasn't the case for me. I chose to continue to sin and it wasn't long before I was fully a backslider. My thought today is, "Don't do it because hurt and pain is unavoidable." I've seen what I've done and do not like it. But if somebody came to me and said, "There is a law against what you're doing," when I was young? I would not have listened but would have laughed in derision instead.

So I do appreciate your participation in this thread. These are the very things that occupy good conversation. My thanks to you guys (and you too, Deborah13), again.