Take it easy SBG, I know you're witnessing. I'm not your enemy. Yes, Jesus is The True Image of God. As such, I rejoice he is your Christ as well as mine and it is my sincere hope he will become everyone's. To that end, I thank you for your encouraging that I have a chance to limit death, although I think we would both agree inevitably death is already defeated.
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savedbygrace57
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childeye
I thank you for your encouragement that you have a chance to limit God's grace. Hows that ?
I thank you for your encouraging that I have a chance to limit death
I thank you for your encouragement that you have a chance to limit God's grace. Hows that ?
childeye
I thank you for your encouragement that you have a chance to limit God's grace. Hows that ?
Sounds like some creepy use of semantics. Why would I want to limit God's grace which for mankind is salvation unto His glory? Is salvation a bad thing? I think not. Moreover, how then could I encourage myself in such an ignorant endeavour of desiring men not to be saved? That is not loving others as I would want to be Loved. I'm sorry if I've misunderstood what you said.
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savedbygrace57
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- #324
child
You posted post 317..
Yes , I did. I don't understand the relevance. My post said I don't feel I should limit God's grace. You said no one could, then I said thanks for the encouragement, then you said, I thank you for your encouragement that you have a chance to limit God's grace. Hows that ?
So I don't get it, is it a typo?
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savedbygrace57
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- #326
child
Well you posted it, ask yourself the relevance, I cannot help you.
Yes , I did. I don't understand the relevance
Well you posted it, ask yourself the relevance, I cannot help you.
child
Well you posted it, ask yourself the relevance, I cannot help you.
Yeah I kinda figured that. Well thanks for trying.
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savedbygrace57
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- #328
Exposing a false religion !
Prov 14:5
5A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Any religion or person who says they are separated from religion, that teaches that Salvation is in any way conditioned on man, in that man is required to perform anything, make any choice, is a false religion, it does not matter who it is, the pope or a popular reform pastor teacher, it is a false gospel, that is under strong delusion..
Prov 14:5
5A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Any religion or person who says they are separated from religion, that teaches that Salvation is in any way conditioned on man, in that man is required to perform anything, make any choice, is a false religion, it does not matter who it is, the pope or a popular reform pastor teacher, it is a false gospel, that is under strong delusion..
Exposing a false religion !
Prov 14:5
5A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Any religion or person who says they are separated from religion, that teaches that Salvation is in any way conditioned on man, in that man is required to perform anything, make any choice, is a false religion, it does not matter who it is, the pope or a popular reform pastor teacher, it is a false gospel, that is under strong delusion..
God is under strong delusion? Have you told Him that?
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
gb
Responding is a work, something man does. Election is of Grace, not of works Rom 11:5-6
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
You teach salvation by works, not by Grace or Election of Grace..
Believing is also a work, something that man does. Are you going to argue that believing is not required so that grace may abound? You could argue that it is only by God's grace that we believe. But you can't say it is not required.
I think when Paul says 'not by works', he is talking about the works of the law.
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savedbygrace57
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- #331
mark
Thats correct ! Quite simply, anything man does is a work !
.
Sure I would argue that. A Person believes because of Grace abounding towards them !
Paul says 1 Tim 1:13-14
13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
It does not matter what you think. The word work in Eph 2:9 is the greek word ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Believing is also a work, something that man does
Thats correct ! Quite simply, anything man does is a work !
.
Are you going to argue that believing is not required so that grace may abound
Sure I would argue that. A Person believes because of Grace abounding towards them !
Paul says 1 Tim 1:13-14
13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
I think when Paul says 'not by works', he is talking about the works of the law.
It does not matter what you think. The word work in Eph 2:9 is the greek word ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
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savedbygrace57
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- #332
What characterizes false teaching !
Every profession of religion that teaches that one's salvation is in any way dependent on the sinner, is a false religion, and unless God grants them repentance, they are on their way to an Christless Eternity and damned forever ! Those who are teaching that one must do something, to add man's effort to the Sovereign Grace of God, which alone saves a man, that man must add his will to the Sovereign Will of God,Paul says we are delivered by the Will of God Gal 1:4
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
or some say that man must make a decision before the will of God can deliver or rescue us from our sins, indicating that the blood of Christ alone did not complete the Job, all such teaching is the man of sin. Any religion that teaches that God wants to save everyone, however He can't or will not without man's cooperation, or that Christ died to redeem everyone but it does not come to past unless man chooses to allow it, all these lies are from the man of sin !
Every profession of religion that teaches that one's salvation is in any way dependent on the sinner, is a false religion, and unless God grants them repentance, they are on their way to an Christless Eternity and damned forever ! Those who are teaching that one must do something, to add man's effort to the Sovereign Grace of God, which alone saves a man, that man must add his will to the Sovereign Will of God,Paul says we are delivered by the Will of God Gal 1:4
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
or some say that man must make a decision before the will of God can deliver or rescue us from our sins, indicating that the blood of Christ alone did not complete the Job, all such teaching is the man of sin. Any religion that teaches that God wants to save everyone, however He can't or will not without man's cooperation, or that Christ died to redeem everyone but it does not come to past unless man chooses to allow it, all these lies are from the man of sin !
mark
Thats correct ! Quite simply, anything man does is a work !
.
Sure I would argue that. A Person believes because of Grace abounding towards them !
Paul says 1 Tim 1:13-14
13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
It does not matter what you think. The word work in Eph 2:9 is the greek word ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
John 6 28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
Do you accept this teaching? If so, then what must you be doing to be doing the works of God?
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savedbygrace57
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- #334
John 6 28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
Do you accept this teaching? If so, then what must you be doing to be doing the works of God?
Yes I believe John 6:29. It nowhere states that believing is not a work. Anything man does, even if God enables it, is a work !
And, dont you worry about me and what I must be doing, this thread is not about me, you understand. If you focus it on me, then I will ignore you. This thread is about the Man of Sin, False religion, and why..
Yes I believe John 6:29. It nowhere states that believing is not a work. Anything man does, even if God enables it, is a work !
And, dont you worry about me and what I must be doing, this thread is not about me, you understand. If you focus it on me, then I will ignore you. This thread is about the Man of Sin, False religion, and why..
I don't know what your position is. All I can say is the door is open, but you have to enter. The Spirit can lead you to water, but you have to drink. Jesus can show you the way, but you have to follow. Those who do enter were preordained. I think that is your position as well.
As far as freewill goes, I think I agree with your position to some extent. We have to consider where this teaching is coming from; to see if it comes from God. If I understand their position, some people are saying they can reject God. That doesn't sound like our Master does it? Would Jesus argue that he could reject God? No. So this teaching isn't from heaven. It's not bread we can eat.
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savedbygrace57
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- #336
mark
Thats strange, for I have only posted it allover this forum in different threads..
Thats works salvation, condemned by scripture. Your position falls write into the catagory that I am now witnessing of !
To enter, that is something you state man must do to get saved !
I don't know what your position is.
Thats strange, for I have only posted it allover this forum in different threads..
All I can say is the door is open, but you have to enter.
Thats works salvation, condemned by scripture. Your position falls write into the catagory that I am now witnessing of !
To enter, that is something you state man must do to get saved !
mark
Thats strange, for I have only posted it allover this forum in different threads..
Thats works salvation, condemned by scripture. Your position falls write into the catagory that I am now witnessing of !
To enter, that is something you state man must do to get saved !
O.K. I wanted to be sure of your position. Personally I wouldn't argue that man does not have a will, or that he is not free to choose. There are some who seek to do their own will, and some who seek to do the will of God. Some men were planted by God, and some were planted by the devil; being devils, they seek to do the devil's will.
Now you say what I said was 'works salvation'. To me 'works salvation' would be salvation by following the law of Moses. Salvation that is earned. But what I'm saying is we are doing the will of God when we believe. It is our will to do his will, and his will is that we should be saved. Therefore we follow the Lord's teachings and we receive the Lord's sayings and we obey the Lord's commandments. Now by the grace of God, we are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Our will is to do his will. But do you think when you sin it is God making you sin? Or is it a test? Why do you pray the Lord's prayer? Is it because Jesus said it was the way we ought to pray? Well you're doing something. Is that works salvation? Not in my book.
Even the sons of the kingdom can be kicked out. So if you think you stand, beware lest you fall, as Paul said. Keep the commandments (work). As Jesus said, "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love." John 15:10
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To enter, that is something you state man must do to get saved !
Well. Yeah. What if Noah didn't enter the ark? Would he have been saved?
I don't know what your position is. All I can say is the door is open, but you have to enter. The Spirit can lead you to water, but you have to drink. Jesus can show you the way, but you have to follow. Those who do enter were preordained. I think that is your position as well.
As far as freewill goes, I think I agree with your position to some extent. We have to consider where this teaching is coming from; to see if it comes from God. If I understand their position, some people are saying they can reject God. That doesn't sound like our Master does it? Would Jesus argue that he could reject God? No. So this teaching isn't from heaven. It's not bread we can eat.
God, Himself, says man has rejected Him.
1 Samuel 8:7 - "And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them."
1 Samuel 10:19 - "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
1 Samuel 15:23 - "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."
Jeremiah 8:9 - "The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?"
Jesus was also rejected, and is being rejected to this very day.
Isaiah 53:3 - "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not."
Luke 13:34 - "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"
I do agree that we must come, look upon the Son, open the door when we hear the knock, drink of the living water, eat of the bread of life and seek in order to find.
What characterizes false teaching !
Every profession of religion that teaches that one's salvation is in any way dependent on the sinner, is a false religion, and unless God grants them repentance, they are on their way to an Christless Eternity and damned forever ! Those who are teaching that one must do something, to add man's effort to the Sovereign Grace of God, which alone saves a man, that man must add his will to the Sovereign Will of God,Paul says we are delivered by the Will of God Gal 1:4
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
or some say that man must make a decision before the will of God can deliver or rescue us from our sins, indicating that the blood of Christ alone did not complete the Job, all such teaching is the man of sin. Any religion that teaches that God wants to save everyone, however He can't or will not without man's cooperation, or that Christ died to redeem everyone but it does not come to past unless man chooses to allow it, all these lies are from the man of sin !
God is longsuffering...not willing that any should perish. He calls for men to repent. Some might call that a work, but God demands it so I'll go with God on this one.
2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
It couldn't be clearer. God expects the wicked to TURN from his sins so they may live. He takes no pleasure when man refuses to TURN from his wicked ways. It is a requirement of our Righteous God that He punish sin, thus He calls on man to choose life.
Ez. 18:21-28 - "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.