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Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

mark

No. Paul is talking about the law of Moses.
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I showed the definition of the word law that the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to use ! If you do not believe it, you still will be held accountable !
 
Denies Salvation is solely premised on the Will of God !


The Man of sin religion will deny that Salvation is sure to its recipients solely based upon the Will of God ! They believe and teach that even though God wills all men to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth, that this will of God can and is frustrated by the will of man ! 1 Tim 2:4

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word for will here is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

They teach that God's desire, wish or resolve and determination is not enough to save a person and bring them into a knowledge of the Truth.

They teach that God's unwillingness for some not to perish, that its not enough for them not to perish ! 2 Pet 3:9

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God not willing these not to perish, is not enough for them not to perish according to these false teachers. Man's will trumps His ! There will is superior to God's !

So When Paul says that the saved were delivered by the will of God Gal 1:6

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

They will add, that in order for that deliverance to have occurred, it must have also been according to the sinners will too or God's will would not have been enough !
 
The man of sin religion denies the Truth of scripture that God is He who works [All things] after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL !

Eph 1:11

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

And no it does not matter what context this truth about God is found. Just because a certain truth about God is found in a particular context, does not limit that which was said about God to that particular context. A pagan King said something very similar about God in a entirely different context Dan 4:35

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Also the Spirit said in Dan 4:25

25That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Now if this be True, why should we not believe that the Most High giveth the Kingdom of Heaven to whomsoever He will ?? Lk 12:32

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

The man of sin religion teaches that God's own will cannot and will not overcome man's own will, but that God's will shall succumb to man's will, if man chooses not to cooperate with God's Will, and so man's will prevails, lest God shall be charged with forcing man to do something against his freewill ! So God gives way to man's superior will !

Scripture should be changed to:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of mans freewill will:
 
savedbygrace57 said:
mark



I showed the definition of the word law that the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to use ! If you do not believe it, you still will be held accountable !
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Faith is not one of the weightier matters of the law Jesus was referring to. Jesus said the Pharisees were tithing mint and dill and cummin and neglecting the weightier matters of the law - the commandments - to not make idols or serve other gods, to not covet, to not kill, to not steal, etc. Those commandments were weightier than tithing. Justice and mercy and faith are matters of the heart. These, Jesus said, the Pharisees should have done ie. they should have shown justice and mercy and faith while keeping all the commandments including the tithing.

What is hard to believe is that you can not hear or understand what Jesus said.

Free will is not abrogated by the will of God. The will of God is accomplished by the preaching of the gospel. That is work. The apostles had to work. Paul even quoted the scripture about not muzzling the ox while it is grinding, meaning, as he was working he should also be able to eat the fruit of his work.

I agree all things are accomplished by God who wills it. So above all, it is God's will. However freewill is his will. That is, man is free to plan his way. However, I don't mean man can reject God or change God's plan. No. I don't believe that. When men say they can reject God or change the plan, then it appears they have no understanding. This is the problem. Without the understanding that comes from above, man can not live. I would even go further and say no one can accept Jesus unless they read the Bible and God gives them understanding. So in that sense it is all God's will.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
mark said



Jesus said:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
http://www.christianforums.net/passage/?search=Matthew+23:22-24&version=KJV
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That's right. Keep reading it. Better still, read the RSV. There's a comma after 'the weightier matters of the law'. The weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith are all things they should have done, as well as tithing.
 
They teach God's will is frustrated by men !

Gal 1:4

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


God's intention and purpose and will behind Christ dying for the sins of those He died for as per 1 Cor 15:3-4

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It was so that he would deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God the Father !

Now if this does not occur for each and everyone Christ gave Himself in behalf of [The Church Eph 5:25], God the Father's will is frustrated, thwarted, defeated. Those who teach such things are Antichrist, and anti God, neither do they give God the Glory due His Name vs 5 !

All those who preach a Gospel that does not have God through Christ, Saving all for whom He died or gave Himself in behalf of, they are preaching a false gospel, a gospel of man, the man of sin ! They teach God's will is frustrated by men !
 
LightningStrikeSurvivor said:
I've read the bible and I do not understand it. Perhaps this is because there are so many versions. Perhaps it is because some versions are written in archaic English. Perhaps it is because there have been so many additions, deletions and alterations down through the ages. Who would ever know? Whom do you believe?

What I do know is I live without the "understanding."
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You have life in your mortal body but there is life which is within which is created by understanding. Who can fathom the depths of God? The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; by his knowledge the deeps broke forth, and the clouds drop down the dew. If you receive his words, and treasure up his commandments, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you cry out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures; then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
 
LightningStrikeSurvivor said:
I've read the bible and I do not understand it. Perhaps this is because there are so many versions. Perhaps it is because some versions are written in archaic English. Perhaps it is because there have been so many additions, deletions and alterations down through the ages. Who would ever know? Whom do you believe?

What I do know is I live without the "understanding."
Click to expand...

Ah, but that is precisely what we are meant to find in The Word. The most common denominator in any individual or group is the mindset that we have grasped it all when in fact that is not possible and we are in fact just handling our own 'very very limited contemplations' rather than the 'full reality' of same.

It is in the contemplation of God that we find a certain amount of our individual freedom of mind. There is a great individual 'internal peace factor' to the heart of man in contemplations of God if they can accept and get past the fact of their own limitations which are in reality only very pale and poor reflections.

Determinists of any sort kill their own arguments when they proclaim God Is Thee Sovereign Controller of all things and THEN proceed to say they believe exactly what that is and consists of.

Their statements regarding Divine Sovereignty can be true. The reality is however those are not their statements but Gods Statements. To take Gods Statements of fact and then go ON to say they are the determinant of what that is or consists of is a complete logical fallacy and fabrication of their minds that they get wrapped up within.

In this way the Word of God is a trap for their minds, showing that the holder probably is somewhat of a megalomaniac in heart, proclaiming themselves to be the determinant of Divine Sovereignty.

Vicious little trap that it is. I am very wary of Divine Sovereign claimants for this reason as a little peeling will quickly reveal that the real Divine Sovereign in their mouths is them and their determinations.

So don't feel bad about not understanding. That is required.

If you or I understood it 'all' that would be the end of our contemplations and that is not what God puts forth to our hearts. There is no End in Him.

s
 
The man of sin religion falsely preaches that the objects of God's Love in giving His Only Begotten Son Jn 3:16, is all of humanity , every single individual, however the scripture tells us otherwise. Scripture makes it quite clear that only a particular People are the Objects of Christ's Love and Death ! Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The Purpose of the Incarnation was to save His People from their sins, to save His Church ! Jesus has clearly stated this. Also Jesus makes it clear that not all sinners are His Sheep Jn 10:26

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

All men are sinners, but not all sinners are sheep. That Christ's Sheep are sinners is seen from the fact that Christ must lay down His Life for them Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us[The Church], in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So all men without exception are sinful sinners, but not all men without exception are sinners that are Sheep, and Christ only specified that He layed down His Life for the Sheep !
 
Since the man of sin religion rejects the Truth of God's discriminate Election of some to Salvation by Grace, then those who shall be the objects of God's Justice were not determined by God, but by men. In their false gospel men, not God determines who are objects of God's Saving Grace or of His Divine Justice, which contradicts Rom 9:20-23

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

This passage of the Gospel that Paul Preached tells us God made and determined which vessels were made for destruction and which ones made for His mercy !

The man of sin religions deny God this prerogative and gives it to man and his so called freewill, making him God over his own destiny !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Since the man of sin religion rejects the Truth of God's discriminate Election of some to Salvation by Grace, then those who shall be the objects of God's Justice were not determined by God, but by men. In their false gospel men, not God determines who are objects of God's Saving Grace or of His Divine Justice, which contradicts Rom 9:20-23

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

This passage of the Gospel that Paul Preached tells us God made and determined which vessels were made for destruction and which ones made for His mercy !

The man of sin religions deny God this prerogative and gives it to man and his so called freewill, making him God over his own destiny !
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That is where your system derails SBG. If you acknowledged the 'fact' that the tempter works in your mind you would know you also factually have a vessel of dishonor in your lump too. In fact one can not be 'in Truth' and deny that fact.

You think Paul is writing about 'you' as a believer being the vessel of honor and the unbelievers being the vessel of dishonor. The fact is Paul described his own condition openly in Romans 7:21 stating that he had 'evil present' with him. That would obviously be 'a vessel of dishonor.' Paul then goes on to elaborate on this exact matter all the way through to Romans 11. He culminates in Romans 11 by showing who was not Israel that was with Israel in Romans 11:8 and that is the spirit of slumber or spirit of stupor. That is the vessel of DISHONOR.

Anyone who has had a visit from the tempter in their minds is getting a first hand peek at their own vessel of dishonor in their LUMP. That is also why Paul deployed the term why have you made 'ME' thus, not 'me and the other guy' who doesn't believe.

s
 
If possible they shall deceive the very elect !

Matt 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus warned His Church of these things, and what to expect in the very end time right before His Second Coming ! Most False preachers of our day, who call themselves preachers of Grace, that is, Salvation by Grace instead of the Law, these have fallen prey to a subtle heresy called neonomianism :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonomianism

Which basically teaches that the Gospel is a New Law prescribed by the New covenant, a much easier or duty or requirement or obligation that man can perform in order to get saved, however this subtlety undermines Salvation by Grace, for all it does is replace the mosaic law keeping for salvation, with evangelical duties and laws such as believing and repenting, which still makes Salvation to be by works or law keeping, and falls short of the biblical teaching of Salvation by Grace ! Its a False Gospel, a extremely popular and accepted in organized religion today ! But Thank God for Election, for His Elect will escape this deadly deception !
 
Dan 4:26 The Heavens do Rule !

Dan 4:26

26And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

The Heaven's do rule means God rules, His Kingdom [Throne] rules as per Ps 103:19

19The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

The man of sin religions of the world does not know the True and Living God, who rules all, even every man. The man of sin religions believe that man rules through his so called freewill, yes, even that it rules and overrules God's Purposes and Decrees ! Dan 4:25

25That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

It is just impossible for one to believe in man's freewill and to believe in the True God as per Jn 17:3

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Dan 4:34-37

34And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

36At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

No one can worship God aright without [experientially knowing] that He rules the world, the universe, absolutely and at all times, in all places, and all people ! Those who know this God will never bow to the idol god of man's freewill..
 
God desires it, It shall be done !


Ps 132:14

This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

The word desire is the hebrew verb 'avah which means:


) desire, incline, covet, wait longingly, wish, sigh, want, be greedy, prefer

a) (Piel) to desire, crave (food and drink)

b) (Hithpael) to desire, long for, lust after (of bodily appetites)

If God, The Almighty desires something, then He will cause it to be so ! Job confirms this in Job 23:13

13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

This is about God, and Holy Inspiration states that what He souls desireth, even that [what He desireth] He Doeth ! The word doeth is the hebrew verb`asah and means:


to do, fashion, accomplish, make

a) (Qal)

1) to do, work, make, produce

a) to do

b) to work

c) to deal (with)

d) to act, act with effect, effect

What God Almighty desires, He will effect, or He will produce it !

Its the same word translated perform here in Isa 9:7

7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Now this Truth about God presents to the man of sin ministers and followers a gigantic problem ! You see, they falsely teach that God desires all men without exception to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, based upon a perverted understanding of 1 Tim 2:4

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

They wickedly teach that God does not get what He wishes for, or wants, or desires in contradiction to Job 23:13 !

The word for will in 1 Tim 2:4 is the greek word thelō and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

They teach that what God desires, wishes for does not happen in regards to 1 Tim 2:4 !

And if you notice the word also means determined, so they also teach that what God determines here in 1 Tim 2:4, shall not come to pass ! Folks thats Blasphemy and impious. Its a attack against the very Character of God to teach that the Almighty desires something to be done, and He does not do it !

The scripture teaches that even the desire of a righteous person shall be granted Prov 10:24

The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted.

But yet the desire of the Righteous God, does not accomplish what He desires ! Ps 11:7

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
 
By their fruit ye shall know them !


Matt 7:13-16

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Ye know them by the fruit of their doctrines and understanding !

The antichrist ministers and followers manifest their antichrist sentiments by opposing the Truth of Christ's Work on the Cross as actually not potentially, saving all for whom He died, to that of not saving any at all, but only making all men without exception savable ! By savable, I mean only potentially saved, the crowning touch must be provided by man, hence men according to them are finally saved by what man does, and not by what Christ did, hence crowning themselves as their own saviours by their wisdom !
 
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It's a Spirit !

1 Jn 4:3

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The Antichrist folks is not a person, but a spirit, a Spirit that comes in the name of Christ Rev 13:11, but denies His Gospel Doctrines !
 
Be careful !

If Faith or believing in Christ, or even repentance be a prerequisite , a condition, a requirement or any of that, then they become works, yet the scriptures make it clear that works are antithesis to Faith; however if Faith becomes a duty or requirement for getting saved, and Salvation is by Grace, but yet its through a work of duty, such nonsense mixes Grace with Works or Grace with Duty or law, and consequently Grace is no more Grace, Paul's very point here Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Many teach what is called Duty Faith ! Lets look at that word duty: The dictionary says:


something that one is expected or required to do by moral or legal obligation.

2.
the binding or obligatory force of something that is morally or legally right; moral or legal obligation.

3.
an action or task required by a person's position or occupation; function: the duties of a clergyman.



4.
the respectful and obedient conduct due a parent, superior, elder, etc.

Notice, a Task :

a definite piece of work assigned to, falling to, or expected of a person; duty.

any piece of work.

So, you see,once we begin to enter Faith and Repentance as duties to be performed to get saved, we depart from Salvation by Grace and proclaim salvation by Works !
 
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Be careful !


Instead of the Work of Christ being the sole determiner of a person's Eternal destiny unto Glory, the followers of the man of sin religions insist that it is the freewill of man, or man's consent that determines who goes into Eternal Glory. They teach that God's Salvaic Purposes are thwarted unless man concurs with it ! Making God's will dependent upon man's will. They teach God's Will 1 Tim 2:4 is contingent upon man's will acquiesce ! So God's creature determines The Sovereign's will, this if course is nothing short of Blasphemy !
 
Joshua 24:15

Lets briefly examine some of the text that the man of sin followers manipulate and pervert to their own destruction, in order to give man the praise for his own salvation !

Joshua 24:15

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The issue here is not with spiritually dead sinners alienated from the life of God, but to the jewish nation, who had already been established in a national covenant which began back in Ex 20. Here in Joshua they were being exhorted to serve God that had redeemed them out of the House of Bondage in Egypt instead of the strange gods of the Land they now occupied. There is no semblance here because this exhortation goes to people already in a covenantal relationship with God, whereas the unregenerate have no Covenant relationship with God, unless it is still a secret in the counsels of God. However, the Exhortation here is in light of being in a confirmed relationship whereby they had experienced corporate redemption as a people, and in fact had moved into the promised earthly inheritance !
 
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