Grubal Muruch
Member
Can't get much "truer" than that...Amen...
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Can't get much "truer" than that...Amen...
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
What characterizes false teaching !
Jesus told His disciples that wolves would come in Sheep Clothing, however He assured them that they would know them by their fruits, not by outward appearance, but by the Fruit of their understanding of Salvation. Matt 7:18-20
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
All false religions, no matter how close they may resemble the Truth, will always fall short of Salvation entirely of Grace. They will always finally sneak a work of man into the equation as to how God save sinners.
Many will teach that one is saved by keeping commandments of God ! Repentance is such a commandment. Acts 17:30
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
It would hard to deny that repentance is not a commandment of God from this verse !
Or they teach that man is saved by his doing good as in Rom 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Or that one is saved by getting water baptized or some other religious observance ! Many use Acts 2:38 to teach that a man is not saved until he gets water baptized, and some take it a step further and say that this water baptism must include say it is done in the name of Jesus Christ before it is valid !
What is common in our day, the teaching that one must make a decision to accept Christ as their Saviour !
This can go on and on, but one thing for certain, these deceived ones cannot at anytime give a plain unadulterated Testimony of salvation by the Sovereign grace of God, because Jesus said it here Matt 7:18
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
A corrupt tree, one not born again, cannot, has not the ability, to bring forth good fruit, meaning a good testimony of the Gospel of God's Grace and Salvation through Jesus Christ !
Jesus told His disciples that wolves would come in Sheep Clothing, however He assured them that they would know them by their fruits, not by outward appearance, but by the Fruit of their understanding of Salvation. Matt 7:18-20
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
All false religions, no matter how close they may resemble the Truth, will always fall short of Salvation entirely of Grace. They will always finally sneak a work of man into the equation as to how God save sinners.
Many will teach that one is saved by keeping commandments of God ! Repentance is such a commandment. Acts 17:30
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
It would hard to deny that repentance is not a commandment of God from this verse !
Or they teach that man is saved by his doing good as in Rom 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Or that one is saved by getting water baptized or some other religious observance ! Many use Acts 2:38 to teach that a man is not saved until he gets water baptized, and some take it a step further and say that this water baptism must include say it is done in the name of Jesus Christ before it is valid !
What is common in our day, the teaching that one must make a decision to accept Christ as their Saviour !
This can go on and on, but one thing for certain, these deceived ones cannot at anytime give a plain unadulterated Testimony of salvation by the Sovereign grace of God, because Jesus said it here Matt 7:18
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
A corrupt tree, one not born again, cannot, has not the ability, to bring forth good fruit, meaning a good testimony of the Gospel of God's Grace and Salvation through Jesus Christ !
Well I meant some Christians on this forum say they can reject God. Seems illogical to me. How can you reject something you believe? Or conversely, how can you accept what you don't believe? To me, saying you can reject Christ is practically an admission that you don't believe.
The ancient Israelites were given a choice - accept the law that was given to them, and follow the God who led them out of Egypt, or worship the idols of the neighbouring tribes. Accepting the law didn't work for them. It won't work for you. Why do you keep going back to the things that don't work? You would think you would learn from the history of the Jews. If God left it up to choice, no man would be saved. There would be no kingdom. Leaving it up to choice does not work. If it was left up to man to decide, then there would be no kingdom.
God, in his wisdom, has done something you did not expect; he has created a kingdom for his Son, and he did not leave it up to you to decide.
God, in his wisdom, has done something you did not expect; he has created a kingdom for his Son, and he did not leave it up to you to decide.
Last edited by a moderator:
smaller
Member
And the very ripe hypocrisy in Christiandom continues to see 'only good fruit' in themselves and 'only bad fruit' in everyone who disagrees with them.
Open evidence says both fruit and non fruit exists in believers. It's just not a one or the other deal.
Gods Words are all sound and secure inclusive of THE LAW. The Law is spiritual, holy and good. No sense tossing it is there?
Nope, that is the command for sure. But in your world God is incapable of issuing such a command to all men, or if He does, He really does not mean it and only means it to the 'elect.'
God is certainly not AGAINST doing good. But unfortunately the actions of good in the unsaved in determination land is deemed only 'superflous' or a temporary side effect that God grants to the soon to be damned.
Yeah, there are many ways to condemn other believers based on a myriad of slight variations on just about any angle. See the one commonality there yet?
You practice no differently. Just a different bully pulpit.
Well, it might appear that if one claims Jesus as their Lord and Savior that the Holy Spirit has empowered them to do so?
And you have exactly ZERO deception?
Please, sometimes these positions are so utterly funny I can only laugh.
The fact is that believers both have and have NOT fruit. If common sense is overclouded by 'self justifications' to the extent where we can no longer see the obvious, that speaks to itself. Some believers just CAN'T be honest about open facts for themselves. They ONLY want to see themselves as 'good fruit.'
Fact is, we all sin and SIN is VERY BAD FRUIT.
enjoy!
s
Queequeg's Travels
Member
These scripture verses are getting brutal. There are verses to validate both sides. I think its time to consider which one would actualy be relevent relationally, predestination does not really promote accountability which, is a necessity in atleast social law, creates relevence (persuit of happiness) etc. Is an eternal truth not great enough, is Gods will and word not universal, etc... or is there some flaw in our current concept of predestination? and maby a misinterpretation of free will?
Are doers of the word condemned? If God commands it, are we not to obey?
I agree there is something wrong with the argument for freewill. Does God have freewill? Can he choose whomever he wills? The same people who say people choose God, say God can not choose people. They make themselves greater than God. God can't choose. They can. Does the kingdom depend on them?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Thats not the issue. You believe that a man is saved by what He does. Obedience is what man does, so you believe in salvation by works and not grace !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Gal 3:11
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
The word law here is the greek word nomos and means:
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
Often times when we see the word law in scripture we immediately think of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law which the scriptures do call the Law. However the word here inspired by God through Paul means more than the Mosaic Law or the Commandments, but does include any command whatsover, a law or rule producing a state approved of God, like Faith Heb 11:6
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
For a person to insist that they are Justified before God, or in His sight because of their faith, that God declared them Righteous before Him because they exercised faith, then that person is claiming Justification by his work of the law ! Matt 23:23
23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Faith according to the Saviour was one of the more important things of the Law which should not be left undone ! Faith in God and His Promise of the Messiah, all the sacrifices they did pointed to Him. Lk 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Jn 5:46
For had ye believed[Faith] Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
Faith was not something new to the people of God, for the Prophets preached Faith Hab 2:4
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
The Righteous or Justified man in the OT lived by Faith of the coming Messiah, who they realized was their Justification before God. The Father of the Faithful saw His Day and was Glad Jn 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
The word law here is the greek word nomos and means:
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
Often times when we see the word law in scripture we immediately think of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law which the scriptures do call the Law. However the word here inspired by God through Paul means more than the Mosaic Law or the Commandments, but does include any command whatsover, a law or rule producing a state approved of God, like Faith Heb 11:6
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
For a person to insist that they are Justified before God, or in His sight because of their faith, that God declared them Righteous before Him because they exercised faith, then that person is claiming Justification by his work of the law ! Matt 23:23
23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Faith according to the Saviour was one of the more important things of the Law which should not be left undone ! Faith in God and His Promise of the Messiah, all the sacrifices they did pointed to Him. Lk 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Jn 5:46
For had ye believed[Faith] Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
Faith was not something new to the people of God, for the Prophets preached Faith Hab 2:4
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
The Righteous or Justified man in the OT lived by Faith of the coming Messiah, who they realized was their Justification before God. The Father of the Faithful saw His Day and was Glad Jn 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
I believe in grace by faith SBG. But, 'He who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests on him'. John 3:36
This is why I asked if doers of the word are condemned.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
mark
Yes which is contrary to scripture, faith is by grace ! Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Thats why I say you believe in works salvation !
Yes which is contrary to scripture, faith is by grace ! Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Thats why I say you believe in works salvation !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
More on Gal 3:11
The jews whom Jesus was speaking to and of in Matt 23, above all people had been given the law, in all its ceremonies, sacrifices and institutions, which all prefigured and foreshadowed Christ, and pointed to Him, to have Faith in His Blood as the basis of their acceptance and righteousness before God, this Paul points out in Rom 3:25,27
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This was the Law of Faith vs 27
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
And this is what Jesus meant as to Faith being a more weighter matter of the Law Matt 23:23. So again, if one insists they are Justified before God, on the account of their Faith, then they are claiming Justification before God on account of keeping the Law, and such thinking is condemned by scripture !
The jews whom Jesus was speaking to and of in Matt 23, above all people had been given the law, in all its ceremonies, sacrifices and institutions, which all prefigured and foreshadowed Christ, and pointed to Him, to have Faith in His Blood as the basis of their acceptance and righteousness before God, this Paul points out in Rom 3:25,27
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This was the Law of Faith vs 27
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
And this is what Jesus meant as to Faith being a more weighter matter of the Law Matt 23:23. So again, if one insists they are Justified before God, on the account of their Faith, then they are claiming Justification before God on account of keeping the Law, and such thinking is condemned by scripture !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
More on Gal 3:11
You see Faith is not something that man was supposed to do as a condition to get justified before God, that's works, but it was a God given grace that revealed a Persons Justification before God based on Christ's Christ's obedience alone, and His imputed Righteousness laid to their account, so Faith revealed to them the object [Christ] who was their Justification and Righteousness before God Phil 3:9, His Blood Rom 3:25.
So it depends on how one understands Justification by Faith Rom 5:1, if they understand it as a condition one must meet and exercise in order to become Justified before God, which is works of the Law Justification, or if you view it as an God given grace by the Spirit of God, that reveals to you, your already Justified state before God because of Christ's blood and imputed righteousness on your account. This is no trifling matter but of momentous importance, for it makes the difference on whether one is saved or reprobate, for what a man thinketh in his heart, so is he Prov 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
If you or i believe that we are Justified before God, in His sight, because of our Faith, then we base it upon Law, and we defined the word law in the verse it is nomos :
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God ***
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT
If that is your thinking, and God knows, you are a debtor to do the whole Law, for you have fallen from grace !
You see Faith is not something that man was supposed to do as a condition to get justified before God, that's works, but it was a God given grace that revealed a Persons Justification before God based on Christ's Christ's obedience alone, and His imputed Righteousness laid to their account, so Faith revealed to them the object [Christ] who was their Justification and Righteousness before God Phil 3:9, His Blood Rom 3:25.
So it depends on how one understands Justification by Faith Rom 5:1, if they understand it as a condition one must meet and exercise in order to become Justified before God, which is works of the Law Justification, or if you view it as an God given grace by the Spirit of God, that reveals to you, your already Justified state before God because of Christ's blood and imputed righteousness on your account. This is no trifling matter but of momentous importance, for it makes the difference on whether one is saved or reprobate, for what a man thinketh in his heart, so is he Prov 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
If you or i believe that we are Justified before God, in His sight, because of our Faith, then we base it upon Law, and we defined the word law in the verse it is nomos :
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God ***
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT
If that is your thinking, and God knows, you are a debtor to do the whole Law, for you have fallen from grace !
I didn't say grace is earned by faith. I said grace by faith. Perhaps I should have put a comma after grace. Grace, by faith. Or grace, by faith in Jesus Christ. The righteous shall live by his faith Romans 3:25 I agree faith is a gift. However when you say salvation isn't dependent on works, that wipes out faith. 'He who does not obey the Son shall not live, but the wrath of God rests on him.' John 3:36
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
mark
I did not say you said that.
You posted :
And I posted in response:
I did not say you said that.
You posted :
And I posted in response:
So? If I said through grace by faith does that help?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
I believe you believe in salvation by works, what a man does, it does not matter what you say now unless you repent and admit you have been wrong .
I believe you do too. Isn't repenting a work? And I have to admit I am wrong? LOL
No. Paul is talking about the law of Moses. You're making stuff up.
Faith isn’t a matter of the law. Justice, mercy and faith are matters of the heart. Jesus said the Pharisees should have done those things without neglecting the weightier matters of the law.