Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[childeye]

=Eventide;567504]I know that.. I'm simply following the logic of your comment.. that anyone who is firstborn ends up being carnal, like your reason for Esau being carnal..

This Esau business is symbolic but not without purpose since it is necessary to subdue vanity. I just know you won't understand this since you don't seem to understand how being firstborn is code for being brought out of that which is corruptible flesh, nor therefore what the cause is of that corruption.

Why do you make it sound as though I wouldn't agree with this.. this has nothing to do with it.. what I'm trying to understand is your BASIS for saying that Esau was carnal.. and you said that it's because he was born first.. I then asked if we should ignore what the scriptural facts are with respect to Esau and simply chaulk it up to his being firstborn.. ?

Adam was the first man according to a carnal nature. Esau is symbolic of that. That is why his actions are carnal. The Old Testament came first according to the letter through which we have knowledge of sin and righteousness by carnal works, the carnal nature. While the New Testament is about the Spirit and righteousness by faith in the promise which one cannot believe in if one believes righteousness can come by works of the flesh. The carnal nature is dissolved through the renewing of the mind, not through human choice, but by the Spirit of Truth. Ishmael was firstborn, out of human works or choice while Isaac was born by promise. These all mean the same thing.

I think the reason for Esau's condition is precisely because of what HE DID.. iow.. he SOLD his birthright to satisfy his flesh.. not because he didn't have a choice in the matter.

Yet you claim we are all condemned in the nature of Adam. Hypocritical reasoning in my view. Moreover, the scripture says that before they were born and had done neither good nor evil God had already chosen. So where is this freewill that supposes it chooses it's destiny? For the scripture expressly says pertaining to this that it was done this way so that it may be through the election of God, not of works. Furthermore, scriptures go on to say what it means by works, it is not of him who willeth nor him who runneth but of God who showeth mercy. If you knew what a carnal mind is, you would know that the carnal mind cannot choose to be spiritual without the mercy of God. Hence Paul says over and over, you will then say to me why does He find fault for who has resisted His will, which is of course the next logical thing to say if we are under the impression that we had a freewill.

 

[Eventide]

Yet you claim we are all condemned in the nature of Adam. Hypocritical reasoning in my view. Moreover, the scripture says that before they were born and had done neither good nor evil God had already chosen. So where is this freewill that supposes it chooses it's destiny? For the scripture expressly says pertaining to this that it was done this way so that it may be through the election of God, not of works. Furthermore, scriptures go on to say what it means by works, it is not of him who willeth nor him who runneth but of God who showeth mercy. If you knew what a carnal mind is, you would know that the carnal mind cannot choose to be spiritual without the mercy of God. Hence Paul says over and over, you will then say to me why does He find fault for who has resisted His will, which is of course the next logical thing to say if we are under the impression that we had a freewill.

Wow, if this isn't Calvinism then what is.. ? Using Romans 9 out of its context to promote unconditional election.. lol..
enjoy childeye.

 

[for_his_glory]

I did not write this, but do agree with what Joe wrote and have his permission to post it here.

FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many men teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

 

[Eventide]

I did not write this, but do agree with what Joe wrote and have his permission to post it here.

FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many men teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

AMEN ! What a mess some men have made out of these simple biblical doctrines which glorify the Lord Jesus Christ.. but that's not enough for many people.. they need to constantly talk about how THEY are the ELECT (as if God chose them AND His Son) and how that THEY were predestined etc etc..

What you posted glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone.. it will be scoffed at here at CF by the elect ones..

 

[childeye]

The problem I have with this teaching that is posted by Eventide and is the teaching of a Mr. Price, is that so many scriptures such as God chose the lowly rich in faith,the carnal mind cannot be subject to God, the eyes are the lamps of the soul, it is not of him who willeth but God who showeth mercy, God reveals to the children what He hides from the scholarly, are put in question. We have the testimony of Paul himself an Apostle of Christ, and his transformation is documented. Paul wrote much of the New Testament. In all honesty and in all Godly fear, shall we ignore Paul who died for Christ to follow Mr. Price?

You have set up a false dichotomy. No freewill is not fatalism, it is servitude. For the opposite of free is slave. The choice is simply whom will you be slave to and whom will you be free from, whom will you believe is true? This makes the word free relative. But even so, one cannot choose without an option, and hence God chose the lowly things and He is with the meek and humble, blessed are the poor etc... The Gospel resists the high and proud things of the world. Moreover Genesis 3:1-6 does not verify freewill. Sin lieth at the door and his desire is unto you. This does not come by the will of men, but by the actions of one man unto all men. Nor does Joshua 24:15, for Joshua clearly states "you cannot serve God" and that the people who did not listen to Joshua in arrogance of themselves are witnesses against themselves.

I think most people think if there is a choice there is a freewill. This is confusing a simple will with a free will, for all of life is choices since we must choose to be doing something at all times seeing that we are sentient. Hence being alive, it is ever proof to those who can't see this, that the will is free when in reality they are simply witnessing life. This evades the moral question of whether there exist spiritual powers that have influence over men through lies and Truth. For the ability to make a decision to follow the right path is dependent upon seeing the Truth. The Truth is preached to the ignorant and deceived not to those free in their wills but to set those free in their wills. Hence the Truth is preached that God is Spirit, He is Love eternal, and He lives in us by grace through faith. Meanwhile the outlook that we are free from any other powers on a spiritual level at the outset, to be whatever we want to be is not acknowledging this.

You say God determined that man would have a freewill, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him. No scriptures support this. We began in trust of God and that trust inspires obedience, the desire to serve. This trust was never tested by God, but by Satan. For who tests a bond except one who doesn't believe in its' integrity. One must also question character as if it is attributable to the person rather than to the spirit living inside him. Good grief how does Mister Price suppose a man is born again? God built all upon faith so He would not conspire against Himself. The desire to serve is based upon your image of God. Satan deceived mankind with a false image of god, albeit it was not false to him. We become morally whatever image we hold of God. hence we are made in God's image. What you are describing is not righteousness by faith but righteousness by works.

Let's remember, Satan proposed disobedience to God not God nor man, and since we began in innocence we were corruptible. So if we ccall freewill the abilityTo teach that men have the right to be wrong is hypocrisy at the outset counting ignorance equal to knowledge and the path towards death equal to the path towards life.

 

[childeye]

AMEN ! What a mess some men have made out of these simple biblical doctrines which glorify the Lord Jesus Christ.. but that's not enough for many people.. they need to constantly talk about how THEY are the ELECT (as if God chose them AND His Son) and how that THEY were predestined etc etc..

What you posted glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone.. it will be scoffed at here at CF by the elect ones..

Eventide, if obedience is attributed to the man, how is it glorifying God?

 

[for_his_glory]

First of all I do not follow any mans teachings, but that of what the Holy Spirit confirms to me to be truth through others teachings as we all need to test what spirits are speaking as their are only two that speak and one is error and one is truth and truth only comes by the Holy Spirit teaching us all things. Do we follow Paul and his teachings as a man or do we follow the Holy Spirit that is working through Paul? Is not freewill a conscience choice we make to accept or reject that of what we have no knowledge of?

Some do not understand the above passages on predestination. They think that if a person is not of those predestined, he is just out of luck, is eternally damned, and there is nothing he can do about it. However, it is a particular group or class of people that God chose before the foundation of the world and not individuals. It is up to us to be part of that class (of those "in Him") if we want to be of the chosen.

Let me illustrate it this way:
A school teacher on the first day of class told his students that some would pass and some would fail the course they were about to take. He then described the things necessary for one to be of those who would pass. At the end of the school year, just as the teacher had said, some passed and some failed. Since the teacher had predestinated the outcome before he began, does it mean that he caused each individual to either pass or fail and there was nothing they could do about it? Certainly not! It was up to each student to be of whichever group he desired. Likewise, God predetermined before He made the world that He would choose those "in Christ" and now it is up to us to be of those in Christ.

By using our free-will we choose whether to be "in Christ" and thus save (Gal. 3:26-27). So, we see God's part (His gracious plan of human redemption which is accomplished through the death of Christ), and man's part (faith in Christ, cf. Jas. 2:14-26; Matt. 7:21-23) combining to complete the equation of salvation (Eph. 2:8-9).

The word form is MORPHE and means "having the characteristics or features of a person or thing; having the nature of the individual." Jesus was not meaning "to take the place of", but "coming into an equality of the nature and characteristics of the Father". We can do this through the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[childeye]

[=for_his_glory;567715]First of all I do not follow any mans teachings, but that of what the Holy Spirit confirms to me to be truth through others teachings as we all need to test what spirits are speaking as their are only two that speak and one is error and one is truth and truth only comes by the Holy Spirit teaching us all things.

In this I would agree.

Do we follow Paul and his teachings as a man or do we follow the Holy Spirit that is working through Paul?

We of course follow the Spirit and so does Paul. So why do you contradict this by saying the will is free as if the Holy Spirit does not teach and guide and we follow in faith not mental deliberation? Is Love ratiionalized? If it is, you are preaching humanism akin to atheism. For man has no need of God if through reason in his brain he can conjure Love in his heart. I do believe that was sold to us in the Garden of Eden. For a free will in true definition can only be one that knows the Truth, hence the Truth will set you free.

Is not freewill a conscience choice we make to accept or reject that of what we have no knowledge of?

You have here asserted a definition without any cognitive substance. You have identified simply a will. To what is "free" applicable as a qualifier? Free is relative to what? You have equated freewill to a decision while salvation being strictly a moral issue is not pertaining to the fact we have the ability to decide.

Let me illustrate it this way:
A school teacher on the first day of class told his students that some would pass and some would fail the course they were about to take. He then described the things necessary for one to be of those who would pass. At the end of the school year, just as the teacher had said, some passed and some failed. Since the teacher had predestinated the outcome before he began, does it mean that he caused each individual to either pass or fail and there was nothing they could do about it? Certainly not! It was up to each student to be of whichever group he desired. Likewise, God predetermined before He made the world that He would choose those "in Christ" and now it is up to us to be of those in Christ.

Having considered your explanation I would comment that you have now morphed the meaning of freewill since you are seeking to fit it with predestination as in I have declared the end from the beginning. Therefore all that transpires through the wills of men is already come to pass to God which changes nothing regarding what men do. It is as if you are saying we made the outcome and God only stood by and watched it and then declared it because He saw it in hindsight. This is not what God means when He says I have declared the end from the beginning, for He goes on to say I have declared it and I will bring it to come to pass. The point being True Love cannot die and that what is Holy need only be proven to those who doubt He is Holy. What you are witnessing is the seperating of those who believe and those who don't.

By using our free-will we choose whether to be "in Christ" and thus save (Gal. 3:26-27).

Please note you have not qualified that the will is free, yet you here proclaim it definitively, applying it to the fact that a decision was made, not on how that decision came about. Allow me to elaborate on this. Jesus said, "I know you and that you do not have the love of God in your heart, for Him whom God has sent, in him you do not believe". Here Jesus himself has explained why a man does not believe.

So, we see God's part (His gracious plan of human redemption which is accomplished through the death of Christ), and man's part (faith in Christ, cf. Jas. 2:14-26; Matt. 7:21-23) combining to complete the equation of salvation (Eph. 2:8-9).

You've correctly identified Faith for it takes Love to know Love and trust Love. Still no freewill has been identified in any of the scriptures you have provided.
So it is as I have said, faith precedes obedience and this faith is faith in Love eternal. Where as freewill defined as the option to not trust cannot exist in the minds or hearts of the faithful, for they do not consider that Love is not eternal despite the proposition that claims it is not.

The word form is MORPHE and means "having the characteristics or features of a person or thing; having the nature of the individual." Jesus was not meaning "to take the place of", but "coming into an equality of the nature and characteristics of the Father". We can do this through the fruit of the Spirit.

Well we won't be doing it by the ability to choose not to, nor did we desire to be in the position to where we must choose to, nor is it provable that all men or any man does. For there is only one God so he who thinks he has a choice must first not believe that. And that is ignorance which you describe as freedom, while I say freedom is only found in the knowledge of God as in who He is as a person. Hence the Christ comes to reveal the invisible God. Who has believed our report?

With all due respect, you are more intent on seeking to place culpability based on freewill, when Jesus has already identified culpability without it. For the true definition of a free will can only be one that has the knowledge of God, hence the Truth will set you free.

 

[Elijah674]

More.. NO/Free/will Baptist stuff from another site that goes right along with your crop of tares! --Elijah
(yes, as 'i' see it!)
______________________________

OK: --. --. site had this when 'i' just came aboard... ('i' BELIEVE in Providence Forum!)

'hate, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies. Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps. But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!

Amos 5:21-24'

And before I came on board I had just read some of todays news of your
(and other's here) OSAS satans garbage of some free grace teaching in practice. Of one of your Baptist Ministers using his gun to rape two women behind his Baptist church here in the S.C. Bible belt. And what is the big deal, huh? You'ins have these ones saved already & will be in heaven.((SICK!))

Now you can go cry some real tears, but not in repentence for your satanic teachings, but that [your brother] brought reproach upon [your very false teaching?] (ALL OF THEM! James 2:10)


And I did not catch the name, (names are not my thing) perhaps you even know him?? but most on here use a 'handle' anyway, huh!

--Elijah

 

[for_his_glory]

Many hear the call of God unto Salvation and choose to follow that calling gaining Spiritual knowledge through the Holy Spirit as they go forth in the word. We can agree that God has called everyone to Salvation, but there are those who take no heed to Gods calling and choose to reject that calling for whatever reason. We are free to choose what we want to believe especially when our carnal mind outweighs that which is of a Spiritual mind lead by the Holy Spirit into all truths of the word of God.

Example: you are free to choose that piece of Chocolate cake, but you fight your will to have it if you are on a diet. It's a freewill choice to eat that piece of cake or push it aside. Same as grace, we can accept it or reject it. You are taking something so simple to understand as one's own choice and adding theology to define an interpretive attitude towards it. It all boils down to the choices we make for ourselves in life whether they are good or bad choices they still remain our individual choice.

 

[childeye]

Many hear the call of God unto Salvation and choose to follow that calling gaining Spiritual knowledge through the Holy Spirit as they go forth in the word. We can agree that God has called everyone to Salvation, but there are those who take no heed to Gods calling and choose to reject that calling for whatever reason. We are free to choose what we want to believe especially when our carnal mind outweighs that which is of a Spiritual mind lead by the Holy Spirit into all truths of the word of God.

Example: you are free to choose that piece of Chocolate cake, but you fight your will to have it if you are on a diet. It's a freewill choice to eat that piece of cake or push it aside. Same as grace, we can accept it or reject it. You are taking something so simple to understand as one's own choice and adding theology to define an interpretive attitude towards it. It all boils down to the choices we make for ourselves in life whether they are good or bad choices they still remain our individual choice.

But you keep changing the definition of freewill and you present scenarios that do not equate. Notice you say we are free to choose a piece of chocolate cake, skirting the fact you were not free to choose not to be hungry. Then you say but you're on a diet and so you have the choice to push it away. Ho Hum. As if we all here do not know we make decisions everyday. Moreover, the theological argument against freewill pertains to morality, not will power. Righteous people choose to do righteous things because they are righteous. So what makes a man righteous on the inside? Jesus didn't die on a cross just to say "be good". Morality hinges upon faith not freewill, and by that I mean trust in the charcter of God. Of course we make individual choices, so what? Why we choose what we choose is the issue. So get with the program here, is righteousness a gift or not? For it certainly doesn't matter if the will is free and not a slave to sin.

 

[for_his_glory]

childeye, I feel I have stated my facts and back them up with scripture and given examples. I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to study the scriptures for themselves through the Holy Spirit teaching them. None of us are righteous as our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God, but only made righteous by the blood of the Lamb. It's like Salvation that it is a free gift from the grace of God and anyone can come into that personal relationship with Christ as our inner man (spirit) is renewed by that very Spirit that is God who has sent his son Christ Jesus to redeem us from all sin through his life, death and resurrection so we can stand before God free from sin through repentance.

God bless you and I am now done with this subject as I do not want this to become a debate or an argument and will move on to new topics and it was nice discussing this with you.

 

[childeye]

childeye, I feel I have stated my facts and back them up with scripture and given examples. I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to study the scriptures for themselves through the Holy Spirit teaching them. None of us are righteous as our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God, but only made righteous by the blood of the Lamb. It's like Salvation that it is a free gift from the grace of God and anyone can come into that personal relationship with Christ as our inner man (spirit) is renewed by that very Spirit that is God who has sent his son Christ Jesus to redeem us from all sin through his life, death and resurrection so we can stand before God free from sin through repentance.

God bless you and I am now done with this subject as I do not want this to become a debate or an argument and will move on to new topics and it was nice discussing this with you.

Well I'm sorry you are leaving the thread, but i understand and thank you for your sincere input. All men do what they do with what God has given them. Peace be upon you in Jesus' name.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Freewill in Salvation is a lie and a denial of man's depraved and dead state spiritually by nature. That God hath concluded all under sin !

Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The words concluded and under are very strong words !

The word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:


to shut up together, enclose

a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely


It denotes an imprisonment, shut under compltely, on all sides !

All that is in us by nature and all that is done by us, are under the power and dominion of sin. That is all the members of our bodies, all the falculties of the soul, all thoughts of our minds Per Gen 6:5

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

All the emotions of the heart Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This desperately wicked actually means incurable !

All the intentions of our wills, all of our choices, our works, even our righteousness is as filthy rags Isa 64:6

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

And yet, men are teaching that they are saved by their freewill..Its a demonic teaching ! 1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[savedbygrace57]

There are many antichists !

1 Jn 2:18

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many Antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Contrary to popular opinion the Antichrist is not one man, but One devil working through many men, just like the Man of God 2 Tim 3:17 is not one man, but many whom the Spirit of God instructs and teaches with the word of God.

What characterizes the man of sin ? 2 Thess 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Man of Sin Opposes God ! So the Antichrist opposes God and or God's Truth, His servants. The word for opposeth is the greek word antikeimai and means:

to be set over against, opposite to

2) to oppose, be adverse to, withstand

To be an adversary against the Truth. Paul wrote on one occasion 1 Cor 16:9

9For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.

or Many opposer's, or as John calls them many Antichrist, they simply oppose the Truth !

The man of sin exalts himself above God

The man of sin sits himself up in the Temple of God [Where the Worship and Presence of God should be] and is worshipped as God, showing that he is God.

The Man of sin, the Antichrist,is any system of religion, any man or group of men, any preacher, of any church or denomination that teaches that salvation is dependent upon or conditioned upon the will, or works or the merit of man, instead of the will and work of God through Christ, for God's Elect. It does not matter what denomination, baptist, presbyterian, pentecostal, or any other mainland cult. 2 Tim 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

This phrase turn away is the greek word apostrephō:


to turn away

a) to remove anything from anyone

b) to turn him away from allegiance to any one

c) tempt to defect

2) to turn back, return, bring back

a) of putting a sword back in its sheath

b) of Judas returning money to temple

3) to turn one's self away, turn back, return

4) to turn one's self away from, deserting


It also means to pervert Lk 23:14

14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

The Ideal here is the perversion of the Truth, the turning away from it by perverting it !

Acts 13:10

10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

The word pervert here is greek word diastrephō and means:


to distort, turn aside

a) to oppose, plot against the saving purposes and plans of God

2) to turn aside from the right path, to pervert, corrupt

You see how all this ties in to what Paul teaches of the Man of sin in 2 Thess 2:3-4 They oppose the Eternal Saving Purpose of God through Christ of God's Elect People, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation..

 

[Levi]

You are wrong about the identity of the 'man of sin' aka 'the son of perdition' aka 'the anti Christ'

aka

'The pseudo Christ'

He is in actual fact a person that will impersonate Jesus as well. He is the embodiment of evil in a human form.

There are anti Christ spirits operating we see them every day.

There are pseudo Christ spirirts, we see them operating in the false doctrines of the likes of the JW's and the mormons etc..

But the Pseudo Christ or the 'son of perdition' will in fact appear, he is in fact a man.

As far as freewill is concerned, well 'many are called but few are chosen' You are being disrespectful to the lamb that was slain at the foundation of the earth, what it cost Him.

He did not do what He did because God had laid it out in a preordained plan, He did what He did because He loved us and God in His foreknowledge made an escape for us. He did it of His own volition and will, you would do well to meditate on what it cost Him.

 

[childeye]

You are wrong about the identity of the 'man of sin' aka 'the son of perdition' aka 'the anti Christ'

aka

'The pseudo Christ'

He is in actual fact a person that will impersonate Jesus as well. He is the embodiment of evil in a human form.

There are anti Christ spirits operating we see them every day.

There are pseudo Christ spirirts, we see them operating in the false doctrines of the likes of the JW's and the mormons etc..

But the Pseudo Christ or the 'son of perdition' will in fact appear, he is in fact a man.

As far as freewill is concerned, well 'many are called but few are chosen' You are being disrespectful to the lamb that was slain at the foundation of the earth, what it cost Him.

He did not do what He did because God had laid it out in a preordained plan, He did what He did because He loved us and God in His foreknowledge made an escape for us. He did it of His own volition and will, you would do well to meditate on what it cost Him.

Uh, Levi, not to trash the very good things you say, but I would point out Jesus came to do God's will and not his own. Hence it was a sacrifice. Yes I am aware Jesus said I do this of my own volition to those who were thinking they were the power forcing him to come to the cross.

I say this because freewill counted as the ability to deny God leads people in their pride to serve only sin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

levi

You are wrong about the identity of the 'man of sin' aka 'the son of perdition' aka 'the anti Christ'

Deal with the facts I provided, dont avoid them..

 

[patience7]

As far as freewill is concerned, well 'many are called but few are chosen' You are being disrespectful to the lamb that was slain at the foundation of the earth, what it cost Him.

He did not do what He did because God had laid it out in a preordained plan, He did what He did because He loved us and God in His foreknowledge made an escape for us. He did it of His own volition and will, you would do well to meditate on what it cost Him.

It seems that a lot of Christians do not realize what Christ went through right before he knew the time was coming for him to sacrifice his life for us.

In reading the records in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, my heart is enlarged with love for him and what he went through for us. All the emotions he was feeling at that time: he was "sorrowful" (Gk wd - lypeo meaning to affect with sadness, to grieve, to make one uneasy with doubt or hesitation), "very heavy" (Gk wd - ademoneo meaning to be troubled, great distree, or anguish, depressed NOTE: This is the strongest of three Greek words in the NT for depression) and in "agony" (Gk wd - agonia meaning severe mental struggle and emotion) to the point that "his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground". All this he felt and an angel had to be sent to strengthen him with power to be able to overcome.

But yet he still said . . . .nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
(Matt. 26:39)

. . . . nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. (Mark 14:36)

. . . .nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (Luke 22:42)

AMAZING . . . . . LOVE

 

[childeye]

Yes it was amazing Love, even unworldly Love that could only come from Him Who is Holy. Let's not speak of other Christians however as not understanding his motivation and his tribulation so as to imply they are calloused. This is not of God. For they may know well his suffering and do not patronize him, but give glory to the Father. Even Jesus said weep for yourselves.