Futurism&TheTemple

[jasoncran]

so that applies to the JEWS only?

the meek shall inherit the earth?

 

[Hitch]

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


What does the command to preach the Gospel have to do with -

LOL I suggest you lower yourself to actually read what is posted before you comment. There is no reference to any command to preach the Gospel in the passages I quoted.

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.


Jesus Christ was standing on earth when He said these words -
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...

Obviously He was not referring to His time on earth, but a future return when He "sit on His throne of glory with all his holy angels".

What is the point of your scripture in reference to Jesus "sitting on His throne of Glory... on earth, separating the sheep from the goats?


JLB

All of which still leaves you to explain why you want Christ to return to establish his kingdom when the passage from Mark plainly shows that as a fait accompli.

 

[JLB]

Hitch;701029]LOL I suggest you lower yourself to actually read what is posted before you comment. There is no reference to any command to preach the Gospel in the passages I quoted.

Your quote -

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel

The scripture you are quoting that referenced preaching the Gospel has nothing to do with -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Your quote -

The scripture you are quoting that referenced preaching the Gospel has nothing to do with -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


JLB

On the contrary, a point of yours ,left out of this latest objection, speaks of Christ returning to set up his kingdom. As you can see Christ has personally inaugurated that kingdom in the clearest possible terms.
Christ opened his kingdom and set down its pattern in a plan that predates the creation. He described how it grows and left us with the best possible means to accomplishe the ends of the kingdom on his behalf.
The event you describe marks the end of the 'growth' portion of the kingdom. At the second advent the kingdom has reached maturity so far as history is concerned and enters its eternal state . The all too common futuristic pining for Christ to arrive and by force maintain a geo-political entity for 10 centuries is contrary to our Lords own plan purpose and prophets. Since every believer ,alive or passed on, has an equal share in the events marking eternity there is no reason to be concerned. Our focus should be the' last legal order received', that is to take our part in growing the kingdom here with the enemy near by and realize in history the complete victory Christ gained for us, in history. This is what is meant when He teaches that it is better for the wheat that the tares remain, for a time.

 

[jasoncran]

if isnt on the throne then why do futurist churches sing He reins?who is on the throne in heaven ? i want jlb to answer.

 

[JLB]

if isnt on the throne then why do futurist churches sing He reins?who is on the throne in heaven ? i want jlb to answer.

Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

He will remain there until ... The time when He returns.


For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '

Then He will come in the glory with all His angels - to earth!

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him,then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Notice the phrase "when the Son of Man comes" - Jesus Christ is saying this while He is still on earth. He is referring to a time when He will return and fulfill all the scriptures that pertain to His return.

The Scribes and Pharisee's saw the many things that Messiah would do in scripture, such as what Zechariah refers to, that gave them a preconceived idea of The Messiah which caused them to reject Jesus as Messiah.

They didn't understand those scriptures refer to His Second Coming.

You of all people should know this.


JLB

 

[Codger]

Did the writings you got this from indicate he was worshiped as God.

Did he claim to be God?

Did he operate by the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders?

Was he destroyed by the brightness of Jesus return?8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

In your research of this man,did it mention any of these details?

Thanks JLB

Yes it definitely does. The Spirit of God and the heavenly host left the Temple just before the Rebellion (falling away) took place (Pentecost 66AD). After the restrainer was removed - Eleazar bar Simon took over the Temple by force and did just as he pleased ignoring the laws of Moses and even the oral laws of the Temple. He took over and completely usurped the authority of God – thus showing himself to be God. These terrorists were murdering those who wanted to make peace with the Romans and so Eleazar and his mob were just a band of thieves and murderous thugs. At one point Josephus mentions that there were an estimated 8,500 dead bodies in the Temple compound due to the fighting. Do you think he was working in the will of Satan? - he certainly was. Antiochus never desecrated the Temple to the degree that Eleazar and John did during the war with the Romans.

With all power - yes, you either did as he dictated or you would die - indeed he had all power. He assumed the equivalent of the “ius gladii†(right of the sword) that high level Romans had – he could kill anyone at any time with no trial and no reason. They were butchering anyone they pleased.

Signs and lying wonders - what is a lying wonder? Not a big mystery as Josephus records at least one of these “lying wonders.†The terrorists in order to keep the public under control were making up stories of "Miracles" that were happening in the Temple. The idea was to fool the populace into believing that God was showing them “signs†and that would mean that he is about to intervene in the crisis. This calmed them down – at least temporarily. Josephus records that in the Temple a cow had given birth to a lamb – one of their “lying wonders.†That's the only one that I can find, but it infers that there were others.

Destroyed with the brightness of his coming – didn't happen. When did Jesus say he was going to return? The record says that he would return “Immediately†after the tribulation of those days. This is the tribulation of the fall of Jerusalem and Israel that he was detailing in Matt 24. There are only two comings; and he taught the Disciples and his followers that he would return at that time. Jesus was telling his Disciples the earliest point at which he could return.

In the second coming he will remove his people from the earth by catching them away and then his brightness would then destroy all of civilization and the elements would melt with fervent heat – just like Peter said would happen. So it wasn't just the leader of the Temple alone that was to be destroyed, but all of remaining mankind. This was to happen toward the end of 70AD after the city had been destroyed. This was the last prophesy of Daniel to be fulfilled. After that he could return. Did he? – no, he said that he didn't know when he would return because it was under the Fathers control. The second coming was delayed and is still delayed today - good thing or we would never have been born.

 

[JLB]

Yes it definitely does. The Spirit of God and the heavenly host left the Temple just before the Rebellion (falling away) took place (Pentecost 66AD). After the restrainer was removed - Eleazar bar Simon took over the Temple by force and did just as he pleased ignoring the laws of Moses and even the oral laws of the Temple. He took over and completely usurped the authority of God – thus showing himself to be God. These terrorists were murdering those who wanted to make peace with the Romans and so Eleazar and his mob were just a band of thieves and murderous thugs. At one point Josephus mentions that there were an estimated 8,500 dead bodies in the Temple compound due to the fighting. Do you think he was working in the will of Satan? - he certainly was. Antiochus never desecrated the Temple to the degree that Eleazar and John did during the war with the Romans.

With all power - yes, you either did as he dictated or you would die - indeed he had all power. He assumed the equivalent of the “ius gladii†(right of the sword) that high level Romans had – he could kill anyone at any time with no trial and no reason. They were butchering anyone they pleased.

Signs and lying wonders - what is a lying wonder? Not a big mystery as Josephus records at least one of these “lying wonders.†The terrorists in order to keep the public under control were making up stories of "Miracles" that were happening in the Temple. The idea was to fool the populace into believing that God was showing them “signs†and that would mean that he is about to intervene in the crisis. This calmed them down – at least temporarily. Josephus records that in the Temple a cow had given birth to a lamb – one of their “lying wonders.†That's the only one that I can find, but it infers that there were others.

Destroyed with the brightness of his coming – didn't happen. When did Jesus say he was going to return? The record says that he would return “Immediately†after the tribulation of those days. This is the tribulation of the fall of Jerusalem and Israel that he was detailing in Matt 24. There are only two comings; and he taught the Disciples and his followers that he would return at that time. Jesus was telling his Disciples the earliest point at which he could return.

In the second coming he will remove his people from the earth by catching them away and then his brightness would then destroy all of civilization and the elements would melt with fervent heat – just like Peter said would happen. So it wasn't just the leader of the Temple alone that was to be destroyed, but all of remaining mankind. This was to happen toward the end of 70AD after the city had been destroyed. This was the last prophesy of Daniel to be fulfilled. After that he could return. Did he? – no, he said that he didn't know when he would return because it was under the Fathers control. The second coming was delayed and is still delayed today - good thing or we would never have been born.

The Spirit of God and the heavenly host left the Temple just before the Rebellion (falling away)

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Brother are you suggesting that Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the "falling away" was from Judaism?

 

[Codger]

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Brother are you suggesting that Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the "falling away" was from Judaism?

It was not a falling away from Judaism, but rather the rebellion against Rome. After the rebellion started it was then that the Terrorist leader took over the Temple and desecrated it worse then it ever had been in history. As I said the word translated “falling away†can and often is translated "Rebellion.†The prophesies of Jesus, Paul, and Daniel all fit together very well. This passage written by Paul came to pass just 14 years after it was written in 52AD.

The sequence of events were as follows...

1. The restrainer was taken away
2. The rebellion began
3. The terrorists took over the Temple
4. Agrippa II sent an army to put down the rebellion (failed)
5. Nero sent Cestius with the 12th legion to quell the rebellion
6. Army surrounding city (12th legion)
7. Man of sin is in the Temple - Eleazar ben Simon
8. Cestius fled for no known reason on Chesvan 5th 66AD
9. Terrorists pursued Cestius – destroyed most of 12th legion
10. Terrorists were gone after Cestius for 8 days
11. Christians had 8 days to flee Judea and the city.
12. Christians fled to Pella according to tradition
13. Daniel's clock began on Cheshvan 4th
14. 1,290 days later the daily sacrifice failed (70AD Tammuz 17th )
15. 45 days later the terrorists surrendered to Titus (1,335 days)
16. Everyone was shocked and surprised when the terrorists surrendered
17. God had cut the siege short so the elect could survive
18. The city and the Temple were totally destroyed
19. Only one structure remained – the fortress Antonia – now called the Temple Mount.

Jesus said that “Immediately after the tribulation of those days†then he was going to return for his people in his second coming. End of time.

 

[niki]

I have been doing research on the third temple and the red heifer. I want to know if anyone has found any facts about either one or both. I keep finding things that are saying that a red heifer has been found and the 3rd temple will be build in 2012. What is true about this?

 

[JLB]

It was not a falling away from Judaism, but rather the rebellion against Rome. After the rebellion started it was then that the Terrorist leader took over the Temple and desecrated it worse then it ever had been in history. As I said the word translated “falling away†can and often is translated "Rebellion.†The prophesies of Jesus, Paul, and Daniel all fit together very well. This passage written by Paul came to pass just 14 years after it was written in 52AD.

The sequence of events were as follows...

1. The restrainer was taken away
2. The rebellion began
3. The terrorists took over the Temple
4. Agrippa II sent an army to put down the rebellion (failed)
5. Nero sent Cestius with the 12th legion to quell the rebellion
6. Army surrounding city (12th legion)
7. Man of sin is in the Temple - Eleazar ben Simon
8. Cestius fled for no known reason on Chesvan 5th 66AD
9. Terrorists pursued Cestius – destroyed most of 12th legion
10. Terrorists were gone after Cestius for 8 days
11. Christians had 8 days to flee Judea and the city.
12. Christians fled to Pella according to tradition
13. Daniel's clock began on Cheshvan 4th
14. 1,290 days later the daily sacrifice failed (70AD Tammuz 17th )
15. 45 days later the terrorists surrendered to Titus (1,335 days)
16. Everyone was shocked and surprised when the terrorists surrendered
17. God had cut the siege short so the elect could survive
18. The city and the Temple were totally destroyed
19. Only one structure remained – the fortress Antonia – now called the Temple Mount.

Jesus said that “Immediately after the tribulation of those days†then he was going to return for his people in his second coming. End of time.

Again brother 2 Thessalonians has nothing whatsoever to do with some terrorist or whatever taking over the temple and using it as a fort. -

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first...

It has everything to do with The return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of the dead, whereby we will be clothed with immortality, a new glorified body.

JLB

 

[jasoncran]

Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

He will remain there until ... The time when He returns.


For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '

Then He will come in the glory with all His angels - to earth!

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him,then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Notice the phrase "when the Son of Man comes" - Jesus Christ is saying this while He is still on earth. He is referring to a time when He will return and fulfill all the scriptures that pertain to His return.

The Scribes and Pharisee's saw the many things that Messiah would do in scripture, such as what Zechariah refers to, that gave them a preconceived idea of The Messiah which caused them to reject Jesus as Messiah.

They didn't understand those scriptures refer to His Second Coming.

You of all people should know this.


JLB

so jesus isnt KING of Kings? theres NO throne of grace?


you need to learn alot from the orthodox jews . pay close to the hebrew idioms. they even believe that we would have the torah in flesh and it by practice becomes interlised. living breathing torahs that shine and reach the gentile sinners in the messianic era.and they get that from the pre christ jews that were sages!

uhm isnt that what paul said.so jesus wont reign with with the church during the millenium as they are in heaven and Not on the earth?

 

[jasoncran]

its sill a throne none the less. he turns it over to the father. read that part in corinthians.he isnt in control? the universe isnt reigned by him? satan has no hinderence to do what he wants.

 

[Stormcrow]

I have been doing research on the third temple and the red heifer. I want to know if anyone has found any facts about either one or both. I keep finding things that are saying that a red heifer has been found and the 3rd temple will be build in 2012. What is true about this?

It could all be true and yet utterly irrelevant. God doesn't live in temples built by human hands.

 

[Hitch]

I have been doing research on the third temple and the red heifer. I want to know if anyone has found any facts about either one or both. I keep finding things that are saying that a red heifer has been found and the 3rd temple will be build in 2012. What is true about this?

A sacrifice serves the purpose of minglng the blood of a goat, or red heifer, with that which Christ shed. I dont want to gather what that will earn, do you? Or as Storm said utterly irrelevant

 

[JLB]

A sacrifice serves the purpose of minglng the blood of a goat, or red heifer, with that which Christ shed. I dont want to gather what that will earn, do you? Or as Storm said utterly irrelevant

The rebuilding of the Third Temple will be the fulfillment of bible prophecy as Jesus Christ has said -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


In order to "understand" you must study Daniel.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


After the temple is destoyed in 70 AD v. 26 There is another one in operation in v 27 which will be rebuilt in our life time.

This one Paul writes about -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


The Temple is soon to be rebuilt which will be within the time frame of Daniel's 70th week, which authorizes it's construction according to the word from God to Daniel by His angel Gabriel.

So that all scriptures shall be fulfilled!

Very relevant!


JLB

 

[Hitch]

The rebuilding of the Third Temple will be the fulfillment of bible prophecy as Jesus Christ has said -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


In order to "understand" you must study Daniel.

Well there is not a word here, in your chosen text, about building another temple. ho hum

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


After the temple is destoyed in 70 AD v. 26 There is another one in operation in v 27 which will be rebuilt in our life time.

LOL see above

This one Paul writes about -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


The Temple is soon to be rebuilt which will be within the time frame of Daniel's 70th week, which authorizes it's construction according to the word from God to Daniel by His angel Gabriel.

Please define 'soon' as used above.

So that all scriptures shall be fulfilled!

Very relevant!


JLB

You need to understand that the citation of scriptures that leave you needing another temple and the citation of scriptures that prophecy another temple are two different things.

 

[jasoncran]

i need to do a thread on what redemption is.

 

[JLB]

Well there is not a word here, in your chosen text, about building another temple. ho hum LOL see above Please define 'soon' as used above. You need to understand that the citation of scriptures that leave you needing another temple and the citation of scriptures that prophecy another temple are two different things.

Not a word about the temple destroyed in Matthew 24 in Jesus' answer to His disciples questions.

Must have been real important!

Not one word!

 

[Hitch]

Not a word about the temple destroyed in Matthew 24 in Jesus' answer to His disciples questions.

Must have been real important!

Not one word!

Certainly more important than an event thousands of years future. Especially since the judgement takes up most if the previous three chapters.

And you're left still in need of a temple , and yet you cant locate a single NT prophecy in support.