Futurism&TheTemple

[JLB]

... by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

Where's the holy city and temple in this phrase?

Where's the old covenant is this phrase?

Where's the metaphor in this phrase?

Show me where they are!

Break it down for me so all who read this can understand.

Where is the holy city and metaphor and old covenant in the flooding of the earth in Noah's day.

JLB

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh. what is the new jerusalem? do we have city of god in heaven? now? yes that is what they mean. a new way of worship per paul. if you want to believe things literally then tell me why and what this means

60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the Lord.
7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the Lord, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas thou has been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

King James Version (KJV)
65 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.
11 But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord

66 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5 Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

so will the jews and hebrews in this new city of yours being under the law or in christ? if so what does he mean by taking levites?

 

[JLB]

sheesh. what is the new jerusalem? do we have city of god in heaven? now? yes that is what they mean. a new way of worship per paul. if you want to believe things literally then tell me why and what this means
so will the jews and hebrews in this new city of yours being under the law or in christ? if so what does he mean by taking levites?

Thats what I thought. No answer to a simple clear scripture!

If you don't like what Peter wrote about the new heavens and the new earth, then don't read what he writes.

JLB

 

[Hitch]

Thats what I thought. No answer to a simple clear scripture!

If you don't like what Peter wrote about the new heavens and the new earth, then don't read what he writes.

JLB

Poor dodge J.

 

[Stormcrow]

First you said Heaven and earth = the old covenant.

Absolutely untrue and demonstrated that!!!

Go back and reread this post until you understand it!

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42264&p=703585&viewfull=1#post703585

Excerpted for the benefit of others!

"Heaven and earth" is a Jewish expression that conveys this idea of the Holy Land and its Holy City!"

The Old Covenant "heaven and earth" was violently and irrevocably replaced with the new. That which had been made obsolete finally disappeared. And it all happened in 70 AD.

I further explained this to you in a follow-up post!the Old Covenant established the children of Israel as God's holy ("set apart") people and put them in the land he promised Abraham. This land - with its capitol at Jerusalem - was the "heaven and earth" Jesus references in the gospels and John later references in Revelation 21.

The Old Covenant is not "heaven and earth." But the Old Covenant did establish the people on the "heaven and earth" God gave them after delivering them out of Egypt! Furthermore, one of the penalties for disobedience God promised them would be directed at their heaven and earth!
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42264&p=704403&viewfull=1#post704403

When you have to twist my words to make your point, you don't have a point worth making.

 

[JLB]

Absolutely untrue and demonstrated that!!!

Go back and reread this post until you understand it!

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42264&p=703585&viewfull=1#post703585

Excerpted for the benefit of others!

"Heaven and earth" is a Jewish expression that conveys this idea of the Holy Land and its Holy City!"

The Old Covenant "heaven and earth" was violently and irrevocably replaced with the new. That which had been made obsolete finally disappeared. And it all happened in 70 AD.

I further explained this to you in a follow-up post!the Old Covenant established the children of Israel as God's holy ("set apart") people and put them in the land he promised Abraham. This land - with its capitol at Jerusalem - was the "heaven and earth" Jesus references in the gospels and John later references in Revelation 21.

The Old Covenant is not "heaven and earth." But the Old Covenant did establish the people on the "heaven and earth" God gave them after delivering them out of Egypt! Furthermore, one of the penalties for disobedience God promised them would be directed at their heaven and earth!
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42264&p=704403&viewfull=1#post704403

When you have to twist my words to make your point, you don't have a point worth making.

That may be what preterism teaches, but that is certainly not what Peter taught.

5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Show how Peter is referring to this idea of the Holy Land and its Holy City!" in his writing about heaven and earth.


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.



JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

That may be what preterism teaches, but that is certainly not what Peter taught.

5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Show how Peter is referring to this idea of the Holy Land and its Holy City!" in his writing about heaven and earth.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

JLB

Hitch addressed this here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=45543&p=704846&viewfull=1#post704846

I have already explained this to you several times. Your questions are not motivated by a desire to learn but to argue.

Peter is affirming Christ's words in Matthew 5:18! Law will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away! You can figure out the rest yourself. I'm done arguing with you.

 

[jasoncran]

Thats what I thought. No answer to a simple clear scripture!

If you don't like what Peter wrote about the new heavens and the new earth, then don't read what he writes.

JLB

so i should believe YOU a gentile over my own ancestry and their thoughts? i can get jews to see jesus better then you in the idea of a third temple. i have done that with two. one of them is a believer the other isnt. simply quoting the sages does it.and the believer was stumped by my arguments and he is a pre tribber. i forced him to see that he cant take these verses literally. honestly goes a long way reconcile your idea of a new heavens with the idea of the law again in place? i never said we are in the new and perfect age only that one can say that new heaveans and the earth means that the new to god is through the cross. i use the peter verse my self with matthew 25 to state that is how it will end. the saints remain and the lost are taken.

comparing the sages on the third temple.

ramban with his idea on the temple and use of words believes it would be a fleshly one. hmm and he also said that the water would be symobolic God dwelling in men.

jesus said im am the way, if you believe in me out of thy belly shall rivers of waters flow. hmm nah them ingornant jews didnt see that! they should have consulted them futurists that think that the third temple will have something to do with a literal and bodily christ and ignore the part where the law is in place and no gentile can see the LORD.

i dont think you can answer me that the law must be if the pre mil is the facts.god said isreal was going to fail him and they did yet with the church he never said that.

 

[JLB]

Hitch addressed this here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=45543&p=704846&viewfull=1#post704846

I have already explained this to you several times. Your questions are not motivated by a desire to learn but to argue.

Peter is affirming Christ's words in Matthew 5:18! Law will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away! You can figure out the rest yourself. I'm done arguing with you.

You or Hitch haven't explained anything.

Because you can't.

Peter's words are about a literal heaven and earth.

Checkmate!


JLB

 

[Hitch]

You or Hitch haven't explained anything.

Because you can't.

Peter's words are about a literal heaven and earth.

Checkmate!


JLB

ho hum

 

[Eugene]

Just a thought here since this thread continues to bring up a temple.

Do the Jews have to have a physical temple to worship? No. The temple was not rebuilt yet. Ezra 3:4-6. They kept also the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required; 5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD. 6 From the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the LORD. But the foundation of the temple of the LORD was not yet laid.

 

[jasoncran]

the feast of tabernacles doesnt need a temple. i wonder what the futurists would think of if the orthodox said we wont build a temple and instead build the the tabernacle with Holy of Holies in it and did the sacrifices there.

 

[JLB]

Just a thought here since this thread continues to bring up a temple.

Do the Jews have to have a physical temple to worship? No. The temple was not rebuilt yet. Ezra 3:4-6. They kept also the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required; 5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD. 6 From the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the LORD. But the foundation of the temple of the LORD was not yet laid.

So, are they doing that today? Do know and don't care.

They are planning to build a temple, as the scriptures prophesy.

That's all that really matters, God said it and I believe it.

On the other hand, it you want to discuss what they may or may not do, or what they did or did not do, that's your choice.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27

10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Daniel 12:10-11

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),... Matthew 24:15


14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Revelation 13:14-17


The technology for this mark with it's barcode scanning system has never before been available until this time. This prophecy could never before been fulfilled until now!

And it just so happens that there will a temple built in Jerusalem soon!

It just so happens that there has been a Covenant put in place by the many representatives of Jerusalem recently, called the Jerusalem Covenant which would allow for the temple to be rebuilt if someone with the world authority confirmed it!

http://christianactionforisrael.org/covenant.html


It's funny how people could sit back and scoff at all these coincidences coming together at such a time as this, and still make excuse's and try to explain it all away.

But then, God said - that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:3-7


So you guys go ahead and scoff and scorn and make excuses about what the Jews used to do back in the day, you are actually fulfilling Bible prophecy!


JLB

 

[Eugene]

So you guys go ahead and scoff and scorn and make excuses about what the Jews used to do back in the day, you are actually fulfilling Bible prophecy!JLB

I'm sorry you feel I am scoffing by making the point that the Jews do not need a temple built prior to offering the daily sacrifice that is going to be taken away thirty days prior to the seven years of tribulation.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

[Eugene]

the feast of tabernacles doesn't need a temple.

They also don't need a temple to offer the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required, or the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the Lord that were consecrated. Ezra 3:5-6.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,

They are planning to build a temple, as the scriptures prophesy.

That's all that really matters, God said it and I believe it.

The "building of the TEMPLE" has already been in progress for 1,983 years.


1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."


2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."


1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."


Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."


1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."


1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."


Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."


Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."

Originally posted by JLB,

And it just so happens that there will a temple built in Jerusalem soon!

It just so happens that there has been a Covenant put in place by the many representatives of Jerusalem recently, called the Jerusalem Covenant which would allow for the temple to be rebuilt if someone with the world authority confirmed it!

1 Corinthians 2:13 "These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Originally posted by JLB,

Today we see the Jews ready to rebuild a temple

Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."


Reading this entire thread JLB, I think it is fair to say that it is your turn to answer some questions regarding the Scriptures above. Explain how the Scriptures above relate to this topic. Or do we just ignore them? Please be specific, and more importantly, Scriptural.

 

[jasoncran]

yeah, i have read the account of why jerusalem was picked. it was david not god that choose that place. god choose being honored but the torah was given when and what was built? the tabernacle. a pattern was given, but really god waited for david to act.

another issue is that for all of isreal to be saved that would have to ingnore that the synagougues that are around and how in the days of jesus they didnt have a priest all the time to offer sin sacrifices.the synagouges were for.

http://www.jewfaq.org/shul.htm

to keep a jew a jew, well duh isnt that what it was in the first diaspora

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/461075/jewish/The-Synagogues-Role.htm

therefore, i dont see the modern jews , even chabad which is hassidic, forcing american jews or any jew outside of isreal to make the return to isreal if they dont want to to do the sacrifices. the messiah would have to appear first and raise the dead and then free isreal fully for all jews that are faithful to think about returning.

 

[JLB]

The "building of the TEMPLE" has already been in progress for 1,983 years.


1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."


2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."


1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."


Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."


1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."


1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."


Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."


Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."





1 Corinthians 2:13 "These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."





Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."


Reading this entire thread JLB, I think it is fair to say that it is your turn to answer some questions regarding the Scriptures above. Explain how the Scriptures above relate to this topic. Or do we just ignore them? Please be specific, and more importantly, Scriptural.

All of the scriptures you quoted refer to the "Spiritual Temple" that we are as individuals who are born again.

As we are discussing Daniel 9:24-27, specifically verse 27 which is associated with "temple activities" and uses descriptive "temple" language. -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

...the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Hopefully you are aware that this verse refers to the destruction of the natural city and the natural temple in the year 70 AD.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:26-27

...But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

No one can bring an end to sacrifice and offering unless it is happening in the temple!

Let me say it another way -

People can choose to sacrifice animals without a temple, they could just go out in their back yard and build a fire and go at it. In that regard, no one can "put an end" to sacrifice and offering. However if the sacrifice and offerings were taking place where the Jews are "authorized" to sacrifice, which is on the temple mount, then it would be realistic to say that "sacrifice and offering" could be brought to an end.

So, are the Jews today offering sacrifices on the temple mount?

Absolutely not! It's hard enough for them to go to the wailing wall and just pray without getting stones thrown at them or The Palestinians stirring up all kinds of problems.

Jesus described this peculiar event in the "signs" that He described to His disciples.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand)...

Do you think this phrase "standing in the holy place", refers to the Natural temple in Jerusalem or the Spiritual Temple of born again believers?

This is part 1 of my answer.

Before I continue with my answer to you, please answer these questions -

1. So, are the Jews today offering sacrifices on the temple mount?
2. Do you think this phrase "standing in the holy place", refers to the Natural temple in Jerusalem or the Spiritual Temple of born again believers?

Thanks, JLB

 

[jasoncran]

do all jews want too? some say wait only until the messiah comes.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,

Hopefully you are aware that this verse refers to the destruction of the natural city and the natural temple in the year 70 AD.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:26-27

Yes. I spent a lot of time and thought constructing an in-depth study on Daniel chapter 9 FOR THIS VERY FORUM with charts and diagrams - along with following Scripture meticulously from the Exodus to Christ - and presented it to this forum over a year ago. You can check it out at my personal 'dropbox link' below:


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xrqkn93mw947llb/2bGxPgYo0n



If you read through that study carefully, you will see that I've spent many years studying and researching Daniel ch. 9.


However, you still haven't addressed ANY of the verses in my post. You act as if they do not even exist, yet they are the VERY MYSTERY of Paul's entire ministry!

If you've read my study on Daniel ch. 9, you should know that I do not need to be reminded of what is written there. So please, address these verses specifically, in detail, and explain what they 'specifically' mean Scripturally. We are not talking about Daniel 9 right now. We can discuss Daniel following this discussion. I ask that you address these passages - with no dodging:

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
  1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
  
  
  
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."
  
  
  
• 1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
  
  
  
• Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."
  
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
  
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."
  
  
  
• Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."
  
  
  
• Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."

And,

• Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
  Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
  
  
  
• Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Address each passage, one by one, and tell me what they mean. Thank you.