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Futurist vs Preterist debate

Jason,

You do not have to deny being a Jew because futurism is true. What Jews today have to remember is that the Church = Jew + Gentile = one Body. You are in the Church, and Christ makes no distinctions within the Church, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature" (Gal 6:15).

Once the Church is taken out at the Resurrection/Rapture, God will resume His dealings with Israel as a nation, and eventually "All Israel shall be saved" (Rom 11:26). The kingdom of Israel will be redeemed and restored under Christ, and fulfil its eternal destiny, while the Church will be in the New Jerusalem, and fulfil its eternal destiny. Nothing complicated. Two plans for two groups.

So the key issue for you is whether you are going to allow your Jewishness to become a wall between you and Gentiles, or whether you are going to recognize that in the Church, there is neither Jew nor Gentile (1 Cor 12:13). This truth was not revealed to the OT saints, but revealed to Paul, the Hebrew apostle to the Gentiles.
uhm so when isreal is saved by what means it saved? the law of moses? or the blood?

fulfill its eternal destinty? isreal as a land is destroyed if one takes peter that way and well even jews say that, creation at the end of the seventh epoch will end and the jews will be in spiritual isreal(gan eden) forever with the heshem.

the problem here is that any Hebrew cant be saved as he looses his "Jewishness" he is now a Christian. why? because that is what he must become. he must follow Christ. the greater then moses! that and a gentile would have to become a Hebrew to be part of God's family. that is what you are saying which the Hebrews today call the noachides or jewish converts. which means that the blood of jesus fails. how so? the Lord said that the church wouldn't have the gates of hell prevail against her and yet futurism implies that the messianic era saints will be better one thens the church era ones! satan is bound.
 
Getting back to Preterism, this is how Theopedia summaries Partial and Full Preterism:
Preterism is a view in Christianeschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ's birth, especially associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning past, since this view deems certain biblical prophecies as past, or already fulfilled.
Preterism is most dramatically contrasted with Futurism, the view that most prophecies regarding the End times, and passages referring toLast Days, Great Tribulation, and Judgment are still future and will immediately precede the return of Christ. Proponents of preterist views generally fall in one of two categories: PartialPreterism or Full Preterism.
Partial Preterists
Partial Preterism, the older of the two views, holds that prophecies such as the destruction of Jerusalem, theAntichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ were fulfilled circa 70 AD when the Roman general (and future Emperor) Titus sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Jewish Temple, putting a permanent stop to the daily animal sacrifices. It identifies "Babylon the great" (Revelation 17-18) with the ancient pagan City of Rome or Jerusalem...
...[The] last days, however, are to be distinguished from the "last day," which is considered still future and entails theSecond Coming of Jesus, the Resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous dead physically from the grave in like-manner to Jesus' physical resurrection, theFinal judgment, and the creation of a literal (rather than covenantal) New Heavens and a New Earth, free from the curse of sin and death which was brought about bythe Fall of Adam and Eve... Nearly all Partial Preterists hold to amillennialism or postmillennialism. Many postmillennial Partial Preterists are also theonomists in their outlook....
Full Preterism
Full Preterism differs from Partial Preterism in that it sees all prophecy fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, including the resurrection of the dead and Jesus' Second Coming or Parousia. Full Preterism is also known by other names, such as Consistent Preterism or Hyper-Preterism (a somewhat derogatory term). A related but more recent term is Pantelism, which some regard as an extension of Full Preterism rather than the same thing...

Full Preterism holds that Jesus'Second Coming is to be viewed not as a future-to-us bodily return, but rather a "return" manifested by the physical destruction of Jerusalem and her Temple in AD 70 by foreign armies in a manner similar to various Old Testament descriptions of God coming to destroy other nations in righteous judgment. Full Preterism also holds that the Resurrection of the dead did not entail the raising of the physical body, but rather the resurrection of the soul from the "place of the dead," known as Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek). As such, the righteous dead obtained a spiritual and substantial body for use in the heavenly realm, and the unrighteous dead were cast into the Lake of Fire. Some Full Preterists believe this judgment is ongoing and takes effect upon the death of each individual (Heb. 9:27). The New Heavens and the New Earth are also equated with the fulfillment of the Law in AD 70 and are to be viewed in the same manner by which a Christian is considered a "new creation" upon his or her conversion...Full Preterists reject the authority of the Creeds to condemn their view, stating that the Creeds were written by uninspired and fallible men and are simply in error on this point and need to be reformed....

The event to focus on is the Great Tribulation. Both partial and full Preterists believe that the Great Tribulation is over. But Christ said that this period would be so devastating and so cataclysmic that nothing like it has ever occurred or will ever occur again. The sun has never become black, the moon has never become "as blood", all the stars have never fallen to the earth, the atmospheric heaven has not "departed as a scroll", and every mountain and island has not been moved out of its place. These events pertaining to the Day of the Lord are found in Joel's prophecy as well as other prophetic books. Neither have any of the 7th seal judgments taken place.

So this is the fundamental fallacy of Preterism. We could look at some of the other fallacies too, but if any Preterist can prove from world events that everything described above has already taken place, then only can anyone take their views seriously.
 
uhm so when isreal is saved by what means it saved? the law of moses? or the blood?
Israel is also saved by grace through faith in the blood of the Lamb, but the Lord Jesus Christ personally comes to Israel to bring salvation (Rom 11:26,27): "And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer [the Messiah, the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins".

fulfill its eternal destinty?
Correct (Acts 1:6,7; Isa 11:10-12):
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power...
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

which means that the blood of jesus fails. how so?
The blood of Jesus can never fail, since it was shed for every man. Christ tasted death for every human being (Heb 2:9), and it is only through the blood of Christ -- the blood of God -- that Israel (or any human being) will be redeemed (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet 1:18-21):
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
 
Getting back to Preterism, this is how Theopedia summaries Partial and Full Preterism:


The event to focus on is the Great Tribulation. Both partial and full Preterists believe that the Great Tribulation is over. But Christ said that this period would be so devastating and so cataclysmic that nothing like it has ever occurred or will ever occur again. The sun has never become black, the moon has never become "as blood", all the stars have never fallen to the earth, the atmospheric heaven has not "departed as a scroll", and every mountain and island has not been moved out of its place. These events pertaining to the Day of the Lord are found in Joel's prophecy as well as other prophetic books. Neither have any of the 7th seal judgments taken place.

So this is the fundamental fallacy of Preterism. We could look at some of the other fallacies too, but if any Preterist can prove from world events that everything described above has already taken place, then only can anyone take their views seriously.
so when a literal star say the same size as our passes by the sun and doesn't destroy it. men that are scientists wont be afraid? the laws of physics has just been changed.
 
Israel is also saved by grace through faith in the blood of the Lamb, but the Lord Jesus Christ personally comes to Israel to bring salvation (Rom 11:26,27): "And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer [the Messiah, the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins".


Correct (Acts 1:6,7; Isa 11:10-12):
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power...
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.


The blood of Jesus can never fail, since it was shed for every man. Christ tasted death for every human being (Heb 2:9), and it is only through the blood of Christ -- the blood of God -- that Israel (or any human being) will be redeemed (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet 1:18-21):
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
those are Christians, unless you going to argue that they aren't going to offer sacrifices in the temple? funny a new church that replaces the old church the new one preaches the cross? one odd doctrine.

you said something contrary to that in another thread. that isreal was to be a priestly nation in the millennium under david. king david whom died and will be raised to be a sinner again.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...and-the-church-contrasted.57003/#post-1022100

post 8 and also in that chapter it lists that no man can see the Lord without being circumcised.
Ezekiel 44:9-11. when did modern jews and isrealites do that sin of allowing idolatry in the sanctuary? those guys are all dead. context, context.
 
Christians historians are satisfied with this date, and there is really no reason to dispute it. See below from Wikipedia.
The writings of Irenaeus are online where you can read what he actually said. Here is a quote from a letter written by Irenaeus himself...student? well kind of.....
"In the letter to Florinus, wihch we have spoken of above, Irenaeus again mentions his intercourse with Polycarp, and says:" ......"For while I was still a boy I knew you in lower Asia in Polycarp's house when you were a man of rank in the royal hall and endeavoring to stand well with him. I remember the events of those days more clearly than those which happened recently, for what we learn as children grows up with the soul and is united to it, so that I can speak even of the place in which the blessed Polycarp sat and disputed, how he came in and went out, the character of his life, the appearance of his body, the discourses which he made to people, how he reported his intercourse with John and with the others who had seen the Lord, how he remembered their words, and what were the things concerning the Lord which he had heard from them, and about their miracles, and about their teaching, and how Polycarp had received them from the eyewitnesses of the word of life, and reported all things in agreement with the Scriptures. I listened eagerly even then to these things through the mercy of God which was given me, and made notes of them, not on paper but in my heart, and ever by the grace of God do I truly ruminate on them,"

Irenaeus was a boy listening in on adult debates and conversations. He wrote his actual writing approx. between 175-185 which made him 45-55 years old when he wrote. The actual statement about when Revelation was written came to us through Eusebius, from Irenaeus, from Polycarp, from John. And then there still is no clear date because if I remember correctly without looking it up again, there were two Caesars who had names that began with a D, one earlier then 70AD and one later than 70AD. Could a child have mistaken which one it was?
 
The actual statement about when Revelation was written came to us through Eusebius, from Irenaeus, from Polycarp, from John.
Regardless of the source or exact date, John was still alive after 70 AD. And that is all that matters for our purposes.
 
you said something contrary to that in another thread. that isreal was to be a priestly nation in the millennium under david. king david whom died and will be raised to be a sinner again.
Please take some time to carefully study Ezekiel (as well as all the OT prophets) before you make any further comments. I gave you the exact Scriptures, but it is up to you to believe what is written. There is nothing contrary to Scripture in what I posted, if you will kindly go back and also study those prophecies.
 
Getting back to Preterism, this is how Theopedia summaries Partial and Full Preterism:


The event to focus on is the Great Tribulation. Both partial and full Preterists believe that the Great Tribulation is over. But Christ said that this period would be so devastating and so cataclysmic that nothing like it has ever occurred or will ever occur again. The sun has never become black, the moon has never become "as blood", all the stars have never fallen to the earth, the atmospheric heaven has not "departed as a scroll", and every mountain and island has not been moved out of its place. These events pertaining to the Day of the Lord are found in Joel's prophecy as well as other prophetic books. Neither have any of the 7th seal judgments taken place.

So this is the fundamental fallacy of Preterism. We could look at some of the other fallacies too, but if any Preterist can prove from world events that everything described above has already taken place, then only can anyone take their views seriously.

For the inhabitants of a burning city, smoke haze can turn the moon red, and even block out the sun. Stars falling to earth are those elevated guiding ideas, principals, institutions, etc. that were believed eternal and glorious being stripped of their status and brought back to earth. Heaven being rolled up tells a superstitious culture obsessed with astrology that they have no future. Mountains and islands are people-groups influenced by apocalyptic events. This is all hyperbolic figurative apocalyptic language, which was used throughout the OT to describe the judgments of Israel's oppressors, and used in Revelation to describe Jesus' anointing as King, and the fate of those who fail to acknowledge Him.
 
This is all hyperbolic figurative apocalyptic language, which was used throughout the OT to describe the judgments

So, according to Preterists, everything (or almost everything) is allegorical, figurative, hyperbolic? That is one way to dismiss Bible prophecy. But Scripture must be taken as literally as possible, unless it is clear from Scripture that a symbol or metaphor is being presented. Also, the supernatural must be accepted as a given when considering God's ways. Then world history must be taken into account to determine where we are in God's timeframe.

The real issue which every Preterist must address are the words of Christ regarding the Great Tribulation, and the words of the prophets regarding the Day of the LORD. Nothing like this has ever happened or would ever happen again (Joel 1:15; 2:1-3,10,11; 3:12-16):
15Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
10The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
 
So, according to Preterists, everything (or almost everything) is allegorical, figurative, hyperbolic? That is one way to dismiss Bible prophecy. But Scripture must be taken as literally as possible, unless it is clear from Scripture that a symbol or metaphor is being presented. Also, the supernatural must be accepted as a given when considering God's ways. Then world history must be taken into account to determine where we are in God's timeframe.

The real issue which every Preterist must address are the words of Christ regarding the Great Tribulation, and the words of the prophets regarding the Day of the LORD. Nothing like this has ever happened or would ever happen again (Joel 1:15; 2:1-3,10,11; 3:12-16):
15Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
10The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.


Agreed Brother!


Just as in Luke 21 -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:25-27


How do all the "symbolic" signs cause men to have a heart attack from them?


70 AD has nothing to do with the Olivet Discourse.


Jesus was teaching about Zechariah 14, the Coming of the Lord with the saints.

Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.


1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:1-7
 
I don't understand it as my place to do more than love others. All humans have faulty human capacity to know and remember and learn. For this reason I realize I could misinterpret, or teach wrongly, something I would rather not do. JESUS is love, not debates on points of knowledge for or about him, and He is my teacher. ministers and theology experts for me at least may be helpful and wonderful and good but in the end their judgements and opinions are human and must be accepted with their limitation, that is, as limited. I don't follow these debates because the preterist view seems non-biblical, when reading the bible I would have to really twist God's word to understand revelations that way. Occam's razor applies, a literal reading is to be preferred and to hold major weight, and also keeping in mind the pridefulness attached to human logic and its possibilities.
 
I agree with you about full preterism but I think that in all truth and frankly logic one must remember that when Paul said the resurrection had not passed it was Before 70AD. So in order to prove through scripture that the resurrection didn't happen in 70AD this statement by Paul that it hadn't happened yet, proves nothing about it happening a few years later.
Paul is talking about someone saying the resurrection had happened Before 70AD.

Prove it didn't using other scripture and one has an argument that will hold up.


Here is my proof from scripture that The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with 70 AD.


1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. Zechariah 14:1-6

Does anyone from the preterist camp think this event from Zechariah 14 has happened in 70 AD?

V.1 calls it the Day of the Lord - See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4 ...the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

V.2 has all the nations surrounding Jerusalem - see Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

V.3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.4 And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.5 Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. See Mark 13: 27 & See Rev 19 - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; See Matt 24:29 - ...the sun will be darkened


Did verse 12 happen in 70 AD?

Did the Lord fight against the Romans and strike them with the plague that causes their flesh to dissolve?

And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 14:12


JLB
 
Here is my proof from scripture that The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with 70 AD.


1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. Zechariah 14:1-6

Does anyone from the preterist camp think this event from Zechariah 14 has happened in 70 AD?

V.1 calls it the Day of the Lord - See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4 ...the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

V.2 has all the nations surrounding Jerusalem - see Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

V.3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.4 And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.5 Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. See Mark 13: 27 & See Rev 19 - Did not happen in 70 AD.

V.6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; See Matt 24:29 - ...the sun will be darkened


Did verse 12 happen in 70 AD?

Did the Lord fight against the Romans and strike them with the plague that causes their flesh to dissolve?

And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 14:12


JLB
When Peter had the dream about the sheet with all the animals in it was it about animals?
 
Occam's razor absolutely destroys a wooden literal interpretation of endtimes.:twocents
For me, it's simply a way of resolving an argument, a logical device, nothing more, one that says take the simplest solution if in doubt. For me, a literal translation of the bible is the simplest solution. I don't mean by that to say that there are not types and shadows, analogies, metaphors. Only mean that if the Red Sea parted it really did part.
 
Occam's razor absolutely destroys a wooden literal interpretation of endtimes.:twocents
Sinthesis this looks like a good place to start shaving... :)

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
 
where is the Roman empire today?

Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.

This did not take place in 70 AD, as the Romans went home as conquering heroes.

And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 14:12

No Roman soldiers were strike with this, whereby their flesh dissolved from them.

The Roman Empire went on to rule the world for another 300 years.

That why no one you reads the bible takes Preterism seriously.


JLB

 
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