GALATIANS- warning to the Church

[JLB]

A believer is justified by faith, a living faith. I have taught this positions for months now, and upheld it at all points.

And for months now no one has disagreed with you, yet you keep droning on and on as if someone has.

But that has not stopped you from attacking everyone who also sees that faith without works is dead.

If I look at this scripture in Genesis -

8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?" 10 And He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. 11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth." Genesis 4:8-12

And I learn what happens to those who murder, even if I think I may get away with it from the local authorities, I see that a person is cursed by God.

How is this trying to be justified from the works of the Law of Moses?

This event took place long before the Law of Moses.

Whether I am instructed in righteousness by this scripture or I am instructed in righteousness by Paul who teaches -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

or I'm instructed in righteousness by -

13 "You shall not murder. Exodus 20:13

Scripture teaches us

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Instructed in a behavior that is right before God is good, whether it comes from Moses writings before the Law of Moses or Moses writings of the 10 commandments or the Jeremiah or Daniel or Paul.

Instruction is what is right before God is a good thing, and a person who apply's themselves to be instructed from God's word is blessed, not cursed.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?" 10 And He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. 11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth." Genesis 4:8-12

Why did Cain hate Abel? Why was Cains attempt at "obedience" rejected and Abels accepted? Why was Abel "righteous" and Cain "wicked". Because Abel offered the Lamb by faith and Cain attempted to offer from the sweat of his own labors in the ground (that God had cursed). Here we have the very issue that Pauls speaks of, The law is cursed and those who labor in the law are cursed by the law. Now this "obedience" to the "letter" is rejected by God. Those who trust in Christ and His Blood alone are just and righteous in the eyes of the Lord. Why do those under law "hate" those who are under "grace"? For the same reason Cain hated Abel. And those who trust in their "obedience' to the law are cursed.

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[JLB]

Why did Cain hate Abel?

It doesn't matter why Cain hated Able.

As a person seeking to be instructed in the ways that please God, I can learn from reading here that God does not approve of Murder.

I can read what Paul wrote as well. that those Christians who have been saved by Grace, if they become a slave to the sin of Murder, then they will not inherit God's kingdom.

If a person desires to please God and learn of Him and His kingdom laws that govern the Kingdom of God, then all scripture is available to instruct us, encourage us, correct us and teach us.

If you think that this is somehow trying to keep the Law of Moses, then you have been taught incorrectly.


JLB

 

[reba]

One could say Able offered the sacrifice according to the rules/law or according to the instructions he had learned. Cain wanted to do things his way not according to his will..

 

[George Muller]

One could say Able offered the sacrifice according to the rules/law or according to the instructions he had learned. Cain wanted to do things his way not according to his will..

Yes the rules was God had cursed the ground, and it was cursed just as the law is cursed and mans labors in it are rejected. The law that a New Testament believer keeps is the "law of faith and love" Not the written code of the law of Moses, which is cursed. So just as Able was rejected, those who attempt to be justified by the Law -Ten Commandments etc... are cursed by the law and their worship and obedience is not accepted before the Lord.

 

[reba]

So man knew how to please God on his own? no instruction.... ? interesting take... I don't believe it but we don't have to agree.

 

[George Muller]

It doesn't matter why Cain hated Able.

As a person seeking to be instructed in the ways that please God, I can learn from reading here that God does not approve of Murder.

I can read what Paul wrote as well. that those Christians who have been saved by Grace, if they become a slave to the sin of Murder, then they will not inherit God's kingdom.

If a person desires to please God and learn of Him and His kingdom laws that govern the Kingdom of God, then all scripture is available to instruct us, encourage us, correct us and teach us.

If you think that this is somehow trying to keep the Law of Moses, then you have been taught incorrectly.

Well of course it does matter and it proves why over and over on these forums the legalist always turn to insults and threats and accusations toward those who promote the true gospel. And "murder" is in the heart and only by grace is the heart made right before God. Who is a slave to sin but those under law? "for the strength of sin is the law" and all those who look to law are in the "flesh'' and they cannot inherit the kingdom of God. This point Paul makes clear that those who seek to be justified by the law are in the flesh, and these are those Paul is warning at the end of this epistle, not those who abide in grace.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Ga 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[George Muller]

So man knew how to please God on his own? no instruction.... ? interesting take... I don't believe it but we don't have to agree.

Well The knowledge of Christ and His Blood must have been known to some degree or Abel would not have known to offer the lamb? And it is clear that God had made known the ground was cursed, just as it is clear that the law is cursed. So an honest look at the scriptures proves this point to those who understand the difference between the righteousness of faith and curse of the law.

 

[JLB]

One could say Able offered the sacrifice according to the rules/law or according to the instructions he had learned. Cain wanted to do things his way not according to his will..

Yes the rules was God had cursed the ground, and it was cursed just as the law is cursed and mans labors in it are rejected. The law that a New Testament believer keeps is the "law of faith and love" Not the written code of the law of Moses, which is cursed. So just as Able was rejected, those who attempt to be justified by the Law -Ten Commandments etc... are cursed by the law and their worship and obedience is not accepted before the Lord.

More misguided nonsense.

The Law is not cursed!

JLB

 

[George Muller]

One could say Able offered the sacrifice according to the rules/law or according to the instructions he had learned. Cain wanted to do things his way not according to his will..

Yes the rules was God had cursed the ground, and it was cursed just as the law is cursed and mans labors in it are rejected. The law that a New Testament believer keeps is the "law of faith and love" Not the written code of the law of Moses, which is cursed. So just as Able was rejected, those who attempt to be justified by the Law -Ten Commandments etc... are cursed by the law and their worship and obedience is not accepted before the Lord.

More misguided nonsense.

The Law is not cursed!

JLB

Of course mans labors in the law are cursed; so all who are under the law are under the curse of the law:
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[George Muller]

One could say Able offered the sacrifice according to the rules/law or according to the instructions he had learned. Cain wanted to do things his way not according to his will..

Yes the rules was God had cursed the ground, and it was cursed just as the law is cursed and mans labors in it are rejected. The law that a New Testament believer keeps is the "law of faith and love" Not the written code of the law of Moses, which is cursed. So just as Able was rejected, those who attempt to be justified by the Law -Ten Commandments etc... are cursed by the law and their worship and obedience is not accepted before the Lord.

More misguided nonsense.

The Law is not cursed!

JLB

Like I said Cain hates Abel and so legalist hate those who are under grace, Im sure this is another attempt to get this thread closed as well, seeing the mod is in agreement with the legalist I doubt any justice will be served as it relates to those who continue to turn these threads into insults against those who defend the true gospel of GRACE!

 

[reba]

George you do not show Grace. You show bitterness and contempt for anyone who dose not agree with you...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...those who understand the difference between the righteousness of faith and curse of the law.

But do you really understand the difference?

What you do does not determine whether you are really justified by faith, or are trying to be justified by what you do (legalism).

Why you do what you do determines if you are really justified by faith, or are trying to be justified by what you do.

The legalism you address in the OP is the legalism of trying to be justified by what you do instead of by trusting solely in the forgiveness of Christ for a legal declaration of right standing before God.

Even love does not justify. Only faith in Christ's blood justifies. No obedience produced by faith justifies. Faith in Christ's blood to forgive does that all by itself. There is no boast in ANY works. The only proper boast is the boast of the cross of Christ, and not because it leads us to righteous works, but because it puts us in right standing before God all by itself, apart from works. Even works of faith.

ALL doctrines about grace and law must be judged according to this truth.

 

[George Muller]

George you do not show Grace. You show bitterness and contempt for anyone who dose not agree with you...

Well, not sure you understand the term? Nor do I hold your opinion to have any power over my actions, other than your responsibility as a mod. Now all I ask is you try to use fair treatment and not allow your own biblical and personal views to effect the debate on these issues. To this point, thread after thread has been closed because certain members continue to provoke personal insults and contentions. I have ask all day that this thread remain on the topic, and these sort of things would not be allowed. But as the last few post prove, you allow insults to be made against those in whom you disagree and then defend those in whom you agree, with such post as this one. You have no position to judge any aspect of my morale behavior, but to enforce the rules of this forum in a fair and honest way. Now please stop trying to give me spiritual advice, you are not in a spiritual position and should not attempt to correct those who are above your own spiritual growth.

 

[George Muller]

But do you really understand the difference?

yes I do. and please stay on the topic of the thread.

 

[George Muller]

Ac 15:1 ¶ And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ac 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.



Now to understand the 2nd Chapter of Galatians, one must understand the context to which Paul is speaking, the issue of "circumcision" is in view and the issue of which Paul is speaking is the "law of moses" - liberty from the law is that which the Holy Ghost desired.

Re: GALATIANS- warning to the Church

Ga 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In this epistle, Paul and his authority as it relates to true and sound doctrine, is established above all others. All doctrine must be judged by Pauls epistles.
Those who seek to be justified by any part of the law, have in effect made the death of the Lord vain as it relates to their own standing in the Grace of God.
​

Here is the topic of the thread, in case some have forgotten?

Let me try again? No personal defense of myself or my views will be given but only scripture as it relates to this issue to those who continue to provoke strife and contention.

 

[Free]

Now please stop trying to give me spiritual advice, you are not in a spiritual position and should not attempt to correct those who are above your own spiritual growth.

That very statement negates what it says.

This thread is closed for moderator review.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

George, just be aware it is your definition of legalism that is the problem here.

I'm pretty sure nobody here is advocating legalism and the effort of trying to be justified by doing righteous work.