GAP…theory…or…fact?

[Gregg]

often many gap theorists think that a proto man before adam was around. ie the older fossils that are close to human are indeed sientent.

ie h.ergaster. h.erectus. h.neandenthal. all those are believed to have culture and intelligence. they are also dated prior to adam by some. over 6000 years old. cro magnon as well. one poster mentioned where did the others man come from in reference to cain getting a wife.

I know of a land owner in Texas that found a fossilized man on his land, and he was wearing fossilized leather cowboy boots with a 2 in. riding heel! They determined that he wasn't more than 200 years old.

The same landowner had a creek that dried up one year. He found dinosaur footprints in the rock bed and stone lining the creek. Within [and alongside] those dinosaur impressions he found human footprints overlaying those. Evidently, a man was following the dinosaur through the creek bed before it became fossilized stone. I saw the footprints firsthand - a human footprint within a much larger dinosaur footprint.

- - -

I trust the Biblical account of creation - all matter, time, and space - and that it happened in 6 literal days, 6 evening and morning periods equal in length. Science may call me ignorant or unlightened, but I'll be faithful to the Biblical account of creation all the way to my grave.

 

[reba]

The same landowner had a creek that dried up one year. He found dinosaur footprints in the rock bed and stone lining the creek. Within [and alongside] those dinosaur impressions he found human footprints overlaying those. Evidently, a man was following the dinosaur through the creek bed before it became fossilized stone. I saw the footprints firsthand - a human footprint within a much larger dinosaur footprint.

A photo like that was in my science book about 1956

 

[Deborah13]

I have finnis dakes commentary. I seldom use that bible. I have pondered burning that, or giving it away. I have just decided to keep it. so that another one wont be tempted.

We have one too, the Dake's Bible with the commentary, the thing is huge.

 

[FreeGrace]

Something does not have to be a threat, in order to stand for the truth.

You haven't proven your view. Nor refuted mine.

 

[FreeGrace]

Post # 63~~Gregg~~To believe there was death before Adam’s sin destroys the basis of the Christian message. The Bible states that man’s rebellious actions led to death and the corruption of the universe, but the gap theory undermines the reason that man needs a Savior.


I will try to be more clear. I do Know that you do not believe in the Gap doctrine.

What death are you speaking of?

Sorry for the confusion brother. I asked before, right after you posted it, but no response. And it may have been worded confusing, sorry.

I must have missed his comment. I wonder if he could explain HOW the time gap "undermines the reason that man needs a Savior"?

 

[FreeGrace]

I pointed out to you that the word "καταρτίζω - katartizō does not appear 13 times in the NT.

I provided ALL 13 occurrences.

According to the Englishman's Concordance, that you use, that word appears only 1 time and that is in Hebrews 11:3.
"κατηρτίσθαι (katērtisthai) — 1 Occurrence
Hebrews 11:3 V-RNM/P
GRK: Πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας
NAS: that the worlds were prepared by the word
KJV: that the worlds were framed by the word
INT: By faith we understand to have been formed the worlds
http://biblehub.com/greek/kate_rtisthai_2675.htm

OK, you're focused on just 1 form, as found in Heb 11:3. The point is that the word, according to a lexicon, has both a non-ethical and an ethical usage, as I noted when I gave ALL 13 occurrences of the word.

How would you explain the use of katartizo in an ethical sense in Heb 11:3?

You are correct it doesn't say anybody "trashed the place".

Sure. But it does say that the place was trashed. :wink

 

[FreeGrace]

Well, I think it makes sense, at least to me, that Satan was in the Garden when he fell.

There is no evidence that he was in Eden when he fell. We do know that he was in Eden before "iniquity was found in him", per Eze 28:11-15.

When he deceived Eve and lied about God this was treachery and I believe that was when sin was found in him. That was when God cursed him, not before.

Actually, his fall was recorded in Isa 14:12-14
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Count the times he said "I will…". 4 Arrogance. He wanted to be God. Still does. Notice that he had "fallen from heaven". All this occurred in heaven, not in Eden.

 

[FreeGrace]

A hen brooding over her eggs has just the right amount of warmth to incubate them but surely not to the point of melting them.. This doctrine/theory sounds more like a preconceived idea, i know about the heat thing after working in a hatchery..

tob

Seriously? The word is used as an explanation of what the Holy Spirit did. The hen keeps the eggs warm so that they will hatch which brings life. Just as the Holy Spirit brooded over the dark wasteland which will allow life to exist.

 

[FreeGrace]

I see that clearly. adding words to the bible in that one must say well its not there nor supported is not a good idea.

Deut 32:11 uses the same word in Gen 1:2 -
"As an eagle stirreth up her nest ,fluttereth (brood) over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:"
7363
râchaph
raw-khaf'
A primitive root; to brood; by implication to be relaxed:—flutter, move, shake.

 

[FreeGrace]

I don't think anyone has said there is a gap in the seven days. They believe there is a gap before the seven day verses begin. Specifically between verses 1:1 and 1:2. Or maybe 1:2 and 1:3.

The OP was quite clear. The time gap is between v.1 and 2. What follows v.1 begins the "katartizo" or restoration of planet earth, preparing it for humanity.

 

[FreeGrace]

either way. tis not there. for six days god created the heavens and the earth. also if adam was the first man, and the others whom didn't sin. why are they accursed? see where this goes?

No, I don't. What are you referring to by "the other whom didn't sin"??? Adam is clearly the first human being. Everyone born to Adam and Eve were born spiritually dead and in need of a Savior.

 

[FreeGrace]

Who do you mean by 'the others whom didn't sin'?
FreeGrace who started the thread, I think believes that Satan "trashed" the earth before verse 3 and God had to 'repair' it so that man could live on it.

Before v.2.

 

[FreeGrace]

often many gap theorists think that a proto man before adam was around. ie the older fossils that are close to human are indeed sientent.

ie h.ergaster. h.erectus. h.neandenthal. all those are believed to have culture and intelligence. they are also dated prior to adam by some. over 6000 years old. cro magnon as well. one poster mentioned where did the others man come from in reference to cain getting a wife.

I came across a reference to the fact that humanity's DNA cannot be traced back to these older findings. iow, DNA scientists cannot find human DNA prior to about 10,000 years, which isn't too far off of calculations as to when Adam was created.

I wish I still had that reference. But I'm sure it can be googled.

 

[FreeGrace]

Though I believe He did create the earth to be inhabited by man, I find it Interesting that you make that statement.

Well, it's the truth. The Bible does not say that God created the earth for man. It does say that the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Matt 25:41.

Does the Bible say that the water in Gen 1:2 was once ice? No, it does not. Thank you.

Correct. But there is plenty of evidence that the earth had been packed in ice.

You're welcome!

 

[FreeGrace]

I think it strongly implies it, we needed a place to be to become His chosen people didn't we?

Imho, God created the heavens and earth for his angels. Imho, after Lucifer rebelled, and "fell from heaven", he might have used earth as HQ for his followers. Which he and they trashed. So God packed the earth in ice, keeping him off it. Then, God "katartizo'd" the earth for man's existence.

Imho, God created mankind to prove something to his angels. That is suggested from several verses. Primarily 1 Pet 1:12.

Eph 1:4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,

Sure. All of God's plans occurred before the foundation of the world.

 

[gr8grace3]

Well, I think it makes sense, at least to me, that Satan was in the Garden when he fell. When he deceived Eve and lied about God this was treachery and I believe that was when sin was found in him. That was when God cursed him, not before.

But Satan was cast out of heaven with the "I wills"
Isaiah 14:12-15 NASB
12“How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!

13“But you said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.

14‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

15“Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol,
To the recesses of the pit.

 

[reba]

The OP was quite clear. The time gap is between v.1 and 2. What follows v.1 begins the "katartizo" or restoration of planet earth, preparing it for humanity.

res·to·ra·tion
noun\ˌres-tə-ˈrā-shən\
: the act or process of returning something to its original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

: the act of bringing back something that existed before

: the act of returning something that was stolen or taken
restoration? back to being void and with out form?

 

[gr8grace3]

I must have missed his comment. I wonder if he could explain HOW the time gap "undermines the reason that man needs a Savior"?

An explanation would be nice on that one.

 

[FreeGrace]

res·to·ra·tion
noun\ˌres-tə-ˈrā-shən\
: the act or process of returning something to its original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

: the act of bringing back something that existed before

: the act of returning something that was stolen or taken
restoration? back to being void and with out form?

No, back to Gen 1:1. The key is "original condition". That's v.1, not v.2. Recall, the "and" can easily be translated as "but", noting a contrast. And I've shown that "hayah" is translated as "waste place" in other verses. That's not original creation.

 

[reba]

FreeGrace said: ↑
The OP was quite clear. The time gap is between v.1 and 2. What follows v.1 begins the "katartizo" or restoration of planet earth, preparing it for humanity.

This reads to me like you agree with restoration of planet earth.