• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

[_ Old Earth _] Geocentricity versus Heliocentricity

Sorry, Jason, but I rather thought it did.

It depends what you mean by 'order' and it depends what you mean by 'randomness'. Because meaning is individually important to us as human beings, this does not necessarily mean that the Universe also has to have meaning imbued in it. It is what it is, determined by the consequential 'laws' that followed its coming into existence. If those 'laws' were different, we wouldn't be here discussing them and it.
so it just is because it is. lol circular aint it.

God is real because is say he is. followed coming into existence, uh no, the bbt doesnt state that, it states this.


We often think of the Big Bang as a giant explosion in our universe, and yet that is not quite right. The Big Bang was the sudden creation of space, time, and unthinkable energy. It was not an explosion in space so much as an explosion of space.

Because this explosion was the creation of time as well as space, there is no meaning to the question, “What came before the Big Bang?†There is no such thing as before.

time is a measurement and to my knowledge doesnt violate entropy, so when could energy be created?


energy neither be created nor distroyed explain
- naveeen (age 18)
st.antonys high school, hubli,karnataka,india
A:
Hi Naveeen,

This is one of the most important rules that scientists have found which describes natural phenomena. Unfortunately there is no non-circular proof of energy conservation -- in the end, all laws of physics that we know of are the result of observation, formation of hypotheses, making predictions, and testing them. Conservation of energy is one such law. If energy could be created or destroyed, all of our ideas of how the world works would have to be modified in some way (and we'd learn something very perplexing). But so far, energy seems not to be created or destroyed.

Energy can be converted from one form to another, though. Mechanical energy, such as the kinetic energy of motion, can be converted to heat energy, for example in the heating of a car's brakes when it slows down. Chemical energy in the gasoline of the car can be converted into both heat energy in the exhaust and heating the engine, and into mechanical energy to move the car. Potential energy, such as the gravitational potential energy stored in an object which is on a high shelf, can be converted into kinetic energy as the object falls down. Electrical energy can be converted to heat or mechanical energy or sound energy in a variety of useful ways around the house using common appliances.

It is often the conversion of one form of energy to another which is the most important application of this rule. Often predictions of the behavior of physical systems are very much more easily made when using the idea that the total amount of energy remains constant. And careful measurements of different kinds of energy before and after a transformation always show that the total always adds up to the same amount.

Historically, of course not all the forms of energy were known to begin with. Scientists had to keep inventing more forms to keep the law of energy conservation true. If that process had gotten too messy or complicated to make sense, we would have had to give up the law.

One very interesting feature of energy is that other forms can be converted into rest mass and back again (particle physicists do this every day in their accelerators). Einstein's E=mc^2 gives the relationship between the rest mass of a particle (measured in standard mass units) and the amount of energy that corresponds to (measured in standard energy units). It even applies to other systems where particles are neither created nor destroyed. If a box contains some air at a temperature, and then is warmed up, it will become ever so slightly more massive because of the extra energy given to it. You can call that rest mass of the whole box or the mass equivalent of the kinetic energy of the particles in it- nature doesn't care what names you give it.

Tom J. (w Mike W.)



Q & A: Energy neither created nor destroyed | Department of Physics | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
 
the question is where did that energy come from.did it poof like this guy said

Inflation for Beginners

i dont buy that though i should read up that. something coming from nothing and that doesnt really answer it.

i love your answer. it was it is isnt a scientific answer.it like answering me when i ask why ask you why does the heart use blood? you then say if it didnt we wouldnt be alive.theres a reason at which i say God decided that would be the case. nor more or less scientific then yours.
beg the question? eh.
 
You are misunderstanding me when I say God breaks His own laws of nature, it has nothing to do with believers changing "their God" to fit science. In fact, I say that to not even discredit science in the least (although there are some major issues with "those intellects" as a community).

No, the reason I say that, in my observation, was God protecting believers and in another instance, saving lives. I saw two things happen that defied all laws. However, I am sure you will not believe me and/or that I was delusional, there would be nothing I could do to convince you, but I do know they happened. It's all Bibical, too, God broke His own laws all the time. They are His to break.

I believe this is the second time you have made the statement "you will not be convinced, and think me delusional". How about you let me decide for myself. Maybe what you give would be compelling. Perhaps not. But at least lay it out and let me decide if you "convince me".
 
the question is where did that energy come from.did it poof like this guy said

Inflation for Beginners

i dont buy that though i should read up that. something coming from nothing and that doesnt really answer it.

i love your answer. it was it is isnt a scientific answer.it like answering me when i ask why ask you why does the heart use blood? you then say if it didnt we wouldnt be alive.theres a reason at which i say God decided that would be the case. nor more or less scientific then yours.
beg the question? eh.


lol. electron-positron pairs come from photons! those have to exist first.!
 
I believe this is the second time you have made the statement "you will not be convinced, and think me delusional". How about you let me decide for myself. Maybe what you give would be compelling. Perhaps not. But at least lay it out and let me decide if you "convince me".
Agreed.


No more personal attacks, including saying that someone is delusional. Stick to the topic and addressing arguments.

Thanks.
 
Haha. I think I misunderstood what was being stated. :D

The bottom line: no more personal attacks to whomever is calling others delusional.
 
I believe this is the second time you have made the statement "you will not be convinced, and think me delusional". How about you let me decide for myself. Maybe what you give would be compelling. Perhaps not. But at least lay it out and let me decide if you "convince me".

I would not tell you to convince you, just to simply tell you what happened but I am not going to because, maybe not you, but others perhaps will laugh and why cause someone to sin against God and His works, blasphemy.
 
How does this follow? Why does it not follow equally that supernatural beings are the creations of human imaginations unable to comprehend any other explanation for otherwise inexplicable phenomena?
Because your statement is false.
(Where did I come from? What causes thunder? What is the Sun? Why was my home destroyed by an earthquake? Why did the mountain explode and drown my family in molten rock?)

These are not so difficult to answer.
 
What lordkalvan is trying to do is state that man often had issues with understanding the natural, and when they couldn't, a supernatural event/being had to have been the causal factor. Such beliefs were ultimately erroneous. . . . as Geocentricity has been [proven false].

As for what you are choosing not to divulge, for whatever reason, . . . why not? Does it have a complete lack of evidence, hence only baseless opinion? If it wouldn't be compelling, why would you choose to believe it, solely based upon either the word of another or some holy writings? If it WOULD be compelling, why not offer it up for examination?
 
so it just is because it is. lol circular aint it.
All I am saying is that there is no obvious reason why the Universe has to have purpose and/or meaning. Human beings seek purpose and meaning, but that does not mean that this has to be a necessary attribute of the Universe.
God is real because is say he is. followed coming into existence, uh no, the bbt doesnt state that, it states this.
Or God is 'real' because human beings have created the 'reality' of God for themselves. After all, the word of God was written down by human beings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
the question is where did that energy come from.did it poof like this guy said
Quantum potential energy state intrinsic to the singularity?
i dont buy that though i should read up that. something coming from nothing and that doesnt really answer it.
The physics is really esoteric.
i love your answer. it was it is isnt a scientific answer.it like answering me when i ask why ask you why does the heart use blood? you then say if it didnt we wouldnt be alive.theres a reason at which i say God decided that would be the case. nor more or less scientific then yours.
beg the question? eh.
Perhaps 'I don't know' would be a better answer. However, I would still argue that just because we have a need to see purpose and meaning in things does not mean that the Universe has to comply with our needs. There wasn't much obvious purpose in the deaths of those swept up in the Indian Ocean tsunami, the Pakistani floods or the Japanese earthquake. Natural forces seem quite indifferent to our desire to endow them with meaning. Why should the greater natural force of the Universe's beginning be any different?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Quantum potential energy state intrinsic to the singularity?

The physics is really esoteric.

Perhaps 'I don't know' would be a better answer. However, I would still argue that just because we have a need to see purpose and meaning in things does not mean that the Universe has to comply with our needs. There wasn't much obvious purpose in the deaths of those swept up in the Indian Ocean tsunami, the Pakistani floods or the Japanese earthquake. Natural forces seem quite indifferent to our desire to endow them with meaning. Why should the greater natural force of the Universe's beginning be any different?

because, if theres all there is to life is nothing that did it and we are nothing but chemical reactions that have dictated morality. weather we live or die as species is meaningless to the universe. we live because somehow when man and all life came to be we somehow got this survival desire. given:

1) the brain in the humans isnt so easy just say it happen overnight as there no way it could have randomn formation of lobes
a)i'm sure you agree that most pyschosis are based on that the fact the brain can malfunction from being malformed. plenty of evidence on that
2) is that the world you really want to see and believe in, nihilism.
3) something had to order it. we cant say i dont know and not ponder this origin of laws. logic dictates there must be law maker for there be laws.though at least your honest in that
 
I have heard people talk about the "meaninglessness of life" when debating those who have an evolutionary stance. Life isn't meaningless if it turns out that there really ISN'T a god. In fact, life is even MORE meaningful when this is all there is. There isn't any "second chance" in a "heavenly home". You [then] have to LIVE your life to the fullest.

Having said that, I am not concluding that there ISN'T being we would call "deities" out there that did some direction in our developement. However, integrity [for me] must keep me on the stance I give here until new evidence is given that would prove that they [the "deity" beings] actually DO exist and HAD interactions in our distant past.

As for THIS thread, . . . it is completely ridiculous to claim that the laws of physics works everywhere else in the universe, . . . yet somehow fails in our solar system. Especially when we have physically observed and tested the fact that the sun is the "stationary" body in our solar system and the planets revolve around IT.
 
Haha. I think I misunderstood what was being stated. :D

The bottom line: no more personal attacks to whomever is calling others delusional.

Free I didn't call him delusional and D either to me. Just to clear it all up. thanks.
 
I have heard people talk about the "meaninglessness of life" when debating those who have an evolutionary stance. Life isn't meaningless if it turns out that there really ISN'T a god. In fact, life is even MORE meaningful when this is all there is. There isn't any "second chance" in a "heavenly home". You [then] have to LIVE your life to the fullest.
.
we actually only get one chance here, too, and you're not taking it. The "second chance" you refer to is the reward. No 2nd chance, this is it.
 
I have heard people talk about the "meaninglessness of life" when debating those who have an evolutionary stance. Life isn't meaningless if it turns out that there really ISN'T a god. In fact, life is even MORE meaningful when this is all there is. There isn't any "second chance" in a "heavenly home". You [then] have to LIVE your life to the fullest.

Having said that, I am not concluding that there ISN'T being we would call "deities" out there that did some direction in our developement. However, integrity [for me] must keep me on the stance I give here until new evidence is given that would prove that they [the "deity" beings] actually DO exist and HAD interactions in our distant past.

As for THIS thread, . . . it is completely ridiculous to claim that the laws of physics works everywhere else in the universe, . . . yet somehow fails in our solar system. Especially when we have physically observed and tested the fact that the sun is the "stationary" body in our solar system and the planets revolve around IT.


i am not saying that, but to say that any man if fullest without constraints is down right doubtful, i bet you follow some rules set by someone. common sense. men will pay a man to win a sport even if he blood of a fan on his hands or had raped.doubt me?look at the sports heroes of today. sad lot.

so breaking the law to me be would downright fun as its fun to steal. if you havent done it you dont understand. but i thank god he changed that from me as i know and paid for that later ,but to say that consequences arent there. and werent set in place, that karma thing, opps thats by chance too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For me, I don't "choose not to steal" out of a law, but because I care about the person who I would be offending. That has a lot to do with laws. . . . . But, of course, this thread is about "laws of nature". There isn't any "psychy" to them. They just are because they must be.
 
because, if theres all there is to life is nothing that did it and we are nothing but chemical reactions that have dictated morality. weather we live or die as species is meaningless to the universe. we live because somehow when man and all life came to be we somehow got this survival desire.
I would suggest that the redeeming feature of human beings is that we can give meaning to our lives. Morality and ethics do not stem from religion, but from within human beings themselves and the strucures they have created to enable them to live together as social beings.
given:

1) the brain in the humans isnt so easy just say it happen overnight as there no way it could have randomn formation of lobes
a)i'm sure you agree that most pyschosis are based on that the fact the brain can malfunction from being malformed. plenty of evidence on that
Evolutionary development is not a wholly random process. It is guided by the process of natural selection.
2) is that the world you really want to see and believe in, nihilism.
Nihilism is not the only alternative to belief in supernatural deities.
3) something had to order it. we cant say i dont know and not ponder this origin of laws. logic dictates there must be law maker for there be laws.though at least your honest in that
That 'something' is human society and the ethical and moral values that we as human beings have developed. No one gave us morality, it is something that we developed for ourselves out of the relationships that bind us together as social beings. There is ample research amongst social animals that demonstrate analogues of behaviour amongst them that in human society we categorize as ethical and moral and that religionists appear to believe is a unique property of their faith.
 
Back
Top