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Fedusenko
Guest
Jesus told people to go and sin no more, but how can that be possible if we are sinful in nature as most churches preach? Did Yeshua give us more than we can chew?
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Hitch
Guest
In His life on earth Jesus ,by demonstration, gave us an ideal. It follows naturally that He would present an ideal as a matter of course.
In the case of the woman caught in adultery, under the Law it was necessary that the accuser be blameless in whatever sin/crime he supposed to be bring up as a charge. In that same vein Jesus tells the woman 'Dont do this anymore' . Plain, simple, good Godly advise.
Nathan Alterton
Member
That is a tall order, and I totally understand why many Christians struggle with it. In fact, if you haven't wrestled and struggled with statements like this, I suspect you haven't been taking the Bible very seriously.
Jesus came to be an example, and teach about the Kingdom God and its principles. One of the those principles, at present, is the battle against sin. There is a standard which God advocates regarding sin, one that we should strive for as citizens of His Kingdom - that standard which Jesus spoke of to the Samaritan woman at the well, "Go now, and sin no more."
The question is, is God surprised when we fail to meet that standard? A quick perusal of both the Old and New Testaments makes it clear that He is not, but he knows we fail, and has made a way for forgiveness. The Book of 1 John reads very much like the Apostle expects followers of Christ to live perfect lives; so much so, that great men like John Wesley believed that Entire Sanctification (the doctrine that Christians could live totally free from sin) was actually a possibility. But even in that book, John himself starts out by noting,
Paul, too, who wrote in Romans 6 wrote that we can either be slaves to Christ or slaves to sin, but not both, acknowledges the believer's present struggle with sin,
This "law of sin" that Paul writes about is not a law like the government would create, such as a law against jay-walking or speeding for instance, but a law which we recognize by observation, like the law of gravity. Paul understood through simple experience and observation that, even in the life of the believer, sin was still at work and we still battle against its rule in our lives.
So, it seems clear to me, that Jesus did not setup an iron-clad standard that his followers must meet, but rather a goal to shoot for - understanding that, in this life, that goal is probably unattainable. But also recognizing that without such a goal the process of sanctification would never even begin to take place in us.
Jesus came to be an example, and teach about the Kingdom God and its principles. One of the those principles, at present, is the battle against sin. There is a standard which God advocates regarding sin, one that we should strive for as citizens of His Kingdom - that standard which Jesus spoke of to the Samaritan woman at the well, "Go now, and sin no more."
The question is, is God surprised when we fail to meet that standard? A quick perusal of both the Old and New Testaments makes it clear that He is not, but he knows we fail, and has made a way for forgiveness. The Book of 1 John reads very much like the Apostle expects followers of Christ to live perfect lives; so much so, that great men like John Wesley believed that Entire Sanctification (the doctrine that Christians could live totally free from sin) was actually a possibility. But even in that book, John himself starts out by noting,
Paul, too, who wrote in Romans 6 wrote that we can either be slaves to Christ or slaves to sin, but not both, acknowledges the believer's present struggle with sin,
This "law of sin" that Paul writes about is not a law like the government would create, such as a law against jay-walking or speeding for instance, but a law which we recognize by observation, like the law of gravity. Paul understood through simple experience and observation that, even in the life of the believer, sin was still at work and we still battle against its rule in our lives.
So, it seems clear to me, that Jesus did not setup an iron-clad standard that his followers must meet, but rather a goal to shoot for - understanding that, in this life, that goal is probably unattainable. But also recognizing that without such a goal the process of sanctification would never even begin to take place in us.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Danus
Member
yes and no.
The standard is perfection, but it should not take long for anyone to realize that perfection is found in Christ, not of ourselves and it is for that reason we need the perfection of Christ.
In considering our own imperfection, I like to think we are not to make it any harder on Christ then we already do.
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Fedusenko
Guest
But why can't I be expected to not sin?
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Hitch
Guest
Because men who see that as the all important goal end up losing everything.
Mike
Member
Very true.
Is there a statement or proclamation behind these questions. Are they questions or statements? Is it possible to literally love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind? Is it possible to avoid anything at all in this life to have even the smallest place in them? Can we spend every waking moment basking in His Love without veering our attention or affection? Why would He Tell us to do that if we can't? We should always reach for perfect control over sin but know His Love remains when we stumble. If we claim we do not sin, do not need His Grace, the Truth is not in us.
Nathan Alterton
Member
Because, as Paul made clear in Romans 7, despite that we are no longer slaves to sin, it is still at work in our "flesh", it is still something that comes very naturally to us while we remain in this fallen world. It remains something we must continue to fight against, only now we fight while we follow Christ, whereas before we didn't even know there was a battle.
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Fedusenko
Guest
They are questions. I want to break it down to molecular form. If the way to righteousness is narrow then I want to make sure I have the right map. I put everything to scrutiny.
All Below is added...
The all important goal is Yahweh. Period. The Pharisees that Jesus yelled at forgot the goal due to pride.
Isn't sin simply a choice made to break the 10 commandments?
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Hitch
Guest
The path back to God passes through the wooden gate,there are other ways and all fail. The gulf of separation sin caused cant be bridged by any action. It is only the sacrifice Christ offered on our behalf that not only cleanses but lifts the burden. The 'walk' is impossible under the weight of the load, and the attempt is ,after a manner, an attempt to render useless the weight bearing nails that held Him to the cross.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Part of being perfect is knowing God's will for what to do when you do sin.
It's dangerous to isolate and scrutinize a single scripture away from the whole counsel of God.
What does this mean? What does that look like so one can know they have achieved the goal of Yahweh?
Maybe. But the whole counsel of God helps us know what to do when we do break a commandment.
Danus
Member
No. Sin is missing the mark, it's the opposite of good, it's a wedge between us and God that has placed a very deep and cavernous space between us and God, that only Jesus Christ can and does bridge.
I think it's vitally important to see, and understand, the utter totality of sin in this world, and to know that we, of our own nature, do not have the power to escape. That sin is far more than some simple choice we make.
There is a fault that is often found in the heart of a Christian, that reduces their relationship with God down to a following of few rules, to which they themselves use to judge themselves worthy or clean....and it is a mistake, but one I firmly believe God uses to bring us into truth, not only about who we are, but who exactly he is to us, and the importance of our willingness to be connected to him, and his grace that allows it.
We are hopeless sinners, but of the grace of God, where we find the only hope we could ever possibly have. That is what sin is.
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smaller
Member
Not whatsoever was Jesus WRONG.
But you must 'get real' with your Maker.
The Living Word has said we have SIN beyond any doubting. This fact should be a KNOWN REALITY in your own heart.
Now, follow His Words. Sin is of the devil
Gods children are not DEVILS. You just have to 'get real' about the difference between yourself as Gods child and WHAT you factually CARRY in your mind and heart that is NOT YOU. This is a hard saying and a hard place to go.
Only His Spirit in you can DIVIDE you but in order to DIVIDE you must first be LED TO SEE the facts of your compatriot. Your 'father' in and of the flesh that is not YOU.
Put on your armor, your helmet, your SWORD and the heavenly cloak of righteousness that He has freely given and you will walk with Him in Truth and He will lead you into 'all things.'
enjoy
smaller
Sins are incorrect actions. We should try to not sin at all. That should be our ideal, and that's God's will, which Christ was reflecting in that statement through his pure nature. However, if we fail, we should repent and try again. The last thing you want to do is wallow in a sense of hopelessness and not try at all.
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Fedusenko
Guest
I get the feeling people interpret what I say as acts leading to salvation. By acts I mean obedience. That is not at all what I suggest, but the NT clearly states that acts are required.
James 2:14-26
John 14:7 & 15
John 2:3-6
So why can't we keep his commands? Does killing the old man in Christ really mean to turn away from sin? Lot's wife turned from sin, only to look back and die while the rest followed God and lived. If we allow sin to wedge between us and our Savior then did we really turn our backs to sin?
James 2:14-26
John 14:7 & 15
John 2:3-6
So why can't we keep his commands? Does killing the old man in Christ really mean to turn away from sin? Lot's wife turned from sin, only to look back and die while the rest followed God and lived. If we allow sin to wedge between us and our Savior then did we really turn our backs to sin?
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Fedusenko
Guest
If you aim properly then you will hit the target. If you miss it is because you did not aim properly. Or you could say that if you are aiming then you are keeping your eyes on perfection. If you don't make perfection then it is because you did not keep your eyes on it.
The part that you left out of that chapter...
"Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?"
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Danus
Member
Question Fedusenko. So that we might clear the air and just get down to brass tacks, are you of the understanding that we are capable of having, through prayer, practice, choice, decision, relationship with God...whatever means you want to instill, a perfect sinless nature while here in our physical presence, by inviting Christ in our hearts? Is that your understanding of Christianity?
Is that a question you can answer a simple yes or no to?
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Not being perfect means you do not have Christ Jesus in you?