I expected this reply.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
God Created Man/Adam Sin-ful
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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Jim Parker
Member
And now, having made being nice a higher value than being Biblical, it has swung to the other extreme where a heretic cannot be challenged on the heresy he poets.
stovebolts
Member
And now, having made being nice a higher value than being Biblical, it has swung to the other extreme where a heretic cannot be challenged on the heresy he poets.
Being nice is biblical... respecting your brother is biblical.
James 3:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.
Nice is a higher value than the Word of God?And now, having made being nice a higher value than being Biblical, it has swung to the other extreme where a heretic cannot be challenged on the heresy he poets.
Let's see what God has to say about that...
Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
There is nothing "higher valued" than the Word (aka Biblical.)
I seen it before...love is more important than doctrine.
It is the truth of the Word of God (doctrine/teaching) upon which our lives rest.
Matthew 4:4 (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Do you believe this Word?
Jim Parker
Member
Yes. You are correct. Being nice is Biblical.
Putting up with heretical teachings in order to be nice is not Biblical.
No one is cursing anyone because they post error.
Pointing out that it is in fact error is Biblical.
2Ti 4:2-4 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
Because this is a forum, we will get the "bible geniuses" claiming to have been taught by the Holy Spirit things that are obviously contrary to the teaching of scripture.
I don't believe we should tolerate that and I believe that we have an obligation to the "Bible genius" to point out his/her error so that he/she may not continue in it.
BUT.....that's just me.
stovebolts
Member
Jim,
While this should be in PM, I find it beneficial to all.
How many churches have you gone to through the years, and do you agree 100% with all the teachings of your church?
Please dont tell me you've never held heritical teachings. What I'm asking you and others to do is to extend grace to others just as you have been extended grace when you were in error.
We are on display for the world to see. Do we show the world that we are His disciples by showing the world we can remain United in our differences, or do we act like the world and build walls to splinter us further.
Roman's was written to unite roman Christian's with Jewish Christian's and you know as well as I do that both viewed christianity vastly different because of their customs and culture which shaped their world views. Paul is making the case that neither group has it nailed down, for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.
Listen, none of us have it nailed down 100% and for those of us who have knowledge, we need to use it to bring unity.
This does not mean we accept heresy, but when we see it, we dont draw our swords and go after their jugular. We model our behavior after biblical principals and stories such as acts 18:26.
Notice that they invited Appolos into their home, and did not correct him publiclly.
I would like everyone to mature in their faith enough that any discussion could occur, and God help us we will get there. But before that occurs we need the foundation layed that we are one in Christ, and we build one another up. That means telling the other person where you agree so you have that in common. Never loose sight of what we agree on, and grow that. What you may find is when you grow what is good, then what is wrong is easier for the one who is wrong to recognize it.
Example, those who crucified Jesus screamed, crucify him and let His blood be on us and our children. On the cross, Jesus said to forgive them, because they didnt know what they were doing. This is an example we need to heed.
In Acts 2, these same folks had an aha moment... and were accepted.
We need to keep the door open for that aha moment and not let pride become a barrier.
Yes, we do get some wackadoodles, let us Admins take care of them. Dont throw your Pearl's to swine and dont feed the trolls...
Jim Parker
Member
Good point!
I give it a couple of trys and if it goes sideways I just use the "ignore" feature.
stovebolts
Member
Sounds good.
Just so I'm not misunderstood, I dont consider jeremiah1five a whackadoodle or a troll. It would be nice if the differences could be reconciled and each could talk respectfully to the other without degrading, or demeaning the other.
Often, I think many here misunderstand our direction. Some think we are trying to censor what discussions can and cant take place on this forum. That is not the case.
What we are trying to do is mature our members so civil discussions can take place on any topic, because those discussions need to take place. However, when ugly breeds ugly, that doesnt move us toward Christ nor the unity we are supposed to share. So, the alternative is to shut down the conversations until you all learn to show some respect for each other.
Jeff
Cc JohnDB, WIP , Razeontherock, Truthfrees
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Stove, then let me say FOR THE RECORD:
I AM NOT A CALVINIST.
I reject Calvinism, and I reject Arminianism.
When I say something that supports what I said I post Scripture. But there are those here that ignore, gloss over, omit, or just don't read the Scripture I post that supports what I say. Those that do not receive the Word of God I will recognize and that is revealing. One thing a true believer does is he/she LOVES the Word of God and are always eager to learn more about this "so-great salvation. I have my call and I have my gift(s). If this is a fellowship that glorifies God but I am not allowed to exercise my call and gift and it leads to my excommunication for NO REAL SIN, then I will know what your priority is. ToS, or the Word of God.
I saw something in this fellowship and the people that interacted with me, some chose to get in the flesh, some didn't apply the Word of God to me in our disagreements as is YOUR command. Thus, I was left without a blessing and without the profit of Christ's love through 'you.' I reached out to leadership here to discuss what I had in mind but they hadn't contacted me in reply. But I doubt the things I had in mind would now work here.
But, that could change. It depends. I am who I am. Some may want to force me into a mold the Lord never ordained for me and it will never happen. But you don't excommunicate someone from fellowship simply because they violated the ToS which may not be Bible-based. You don't apply the world's standards on a Christian at the Tabernacle when every word from the mouth of God is my expectation that should be applied to me and as I apply them to you.
This is not an open letter, this is a response to those who have attacked me, disrespected me, put titles and other unjust designations on me because of the Word of God in my soul. I've chosen to do what Jesus said and that is to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Those that do the same, we will have fellowship. Boy! will we have fellowship. Those that don't you will do to me what you have already done and that is to react from the flesh, from the world in you, and you will again disrespect me and Christ in me.
I know how to enjoy you. I know how to have fun sometimes. But if you don't understand something I say ask me and I will help you out. Understanding is key. Communication is key. After 42 years a Christian I know some things. I have some to offer. But if you reject me you reject Christ in me and that is anathema and a contradiction to your profession to God and His Christ.
Stop treating me like a Calvinist. I am a Biblical Christian. I have spent 42 years reading and studying the Scripture of the Old and New Testaments. I NEVER studied Calvin. So how can I be a Calvinist? I don't say his name, I don't push his theology. HOW can I be a Calvinist???
If you attack me you attack Christ in me. I am straightforward, I don't beat around the bush, and I am honest and truthful. Judge me by my words. Don't judge me by what you think. Stay with the evidence. Stay with the facts.
I am still willing to work through these things, but I know there are unbelievers here and I will recognize them and steer clear. My gifts are for my brethren, not them. But that's what happens when one opens the sheepfold to swine.
Problems develop that should not be there. But, this is not my site. Still, if you are going to have a church or a fellowship
or a site for Christians, why force them to leave their Christ and their gifts at the log in page? Why compel them to follow and obey man-made ToS? Are we not Christians? Isn't the Scripture our ToS? What I've seen in the sites I've joined in the past is the same here. It's likje Moses gathering thew children of Israel around the Tabernacle in Congregation and him taking the Law of God and putting it to the side and says we have heathen ToS so that's what will guide our behavior. What heresy. And you, Stove
I reached out to you to you so that I could share these things because again, if you gather one or two brethren Christ is in the midst. Don't we show honor to Him in living by those every words that proceeded from His Father? Or do we toss asside the Scripture, oh we can discuss about the gifts of the Spirit, but when one exercises his or her gifts we excommunicate them. What Christianity is that?
stovebolts
Member
Stove, then let me say FOR THE RECORD:
I AM NOT A CALVINIST.
I reject Calvinism, and I reject Arminianism.
When I say something that supports what I said I post Scripture. But there are those here that ignore, gloss over, omit, or just don't read the Scripture I post that supports what I say. Those that do not receive the Word of God I will recognize and that is revealing. One thing a true believer does is he/she LOVES the Word of God and are always eager to learn more about this "so-great salvation. I have my call and I have my gift(s). If this is a fellowship that glorifies God but I am not allowed to exercise my call and gift and it leads to my excommunication for NO REAL SIN, then I will know what your priority is. ToS, or the Word of God.
I saw something in this fellowship and the people that interacted with me, some chose to get in the flesh, some didn't apply the Word of God to me in our disagreements as is YOUR command. Thus, I was left without a blessing and without the profit of Christ's love through 'you.' I reached out to leadership here to discuss what I had in mind but they hadn't contacted me in reply. But I doubt the things I had in mind would now work here.
But, that could change. It depends. I am who I am. Some may want to force me into a mold the Lord never ordained for me and it will never happen. But you don't excommunicate someone from fellowship simply because they violated the ToS which may not be Bible-based. You don't apply the world's standards on a Christian at the Tabernacle when every word from the mouth of God is my expectation that should be applied to me and as I apply them to you.
This is not an open letter, this is a response to those who have attacked me, disrespected me, put titles and other unjust designations on me because of the Word of God in my soul. I've chosen to do what Jesus said and that is to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Those that do the same, we will have fellowship. Boy! will we have fellowship. Those that don't you will do to me what you have already done and that is to react from the flesh, from the world in you, and you will again disrespect me and Christ in me.
I know how to enjoy you. I know how to have fun sometimes. But if you don't understand something I say ask me and I will help you out. Understanding is key. Communication is key. After 42 years a Christian I know some things. I have some to offer. But if you reject me you reject Christ in me and that is anathema and a contradiction to your profession to God and His Christ.
Stop treating me like a Calvinist. I am a Biblical Christian. I have spent 42 years reading and studying the Scripture of the Old and New Testaments. I NEVER studied Calvin. So how can I be a Calvinist? I don't say his name, I don't push his theology. HOW can I be a Calvinist???
If you attack me you attack Christ in me. I am straightforward, I don't beat around the bush, and I am honest and truthful. Judge me by my words. Don't judge me by what you think. Stay with the evidence. Stay with the facts.
I am still willing to work through these things, but I know there are unbelievers here and I will recognize them and steer clear. My gifts are for my brethren, not them. But that's what happens when one opens the sheepfold to swine.
Problems develop that should not be there. But, this is not my site. Still, if you are going to have a church or a fellowship
or a site for Christians, why force them to leave their Christ and their gifts at the log in page? Why compel them to follow and obey man-made ToS? Are we not Christians? Isn't the Scripture our ToS? What I've seen in the sites I've joined in the past is the same here. It's likje Moses gathering thew children of Israel around the Tabernacle in Congregation and him taking the Law of God and putting it to the side and says we have heathen ToS so that's what will guide our behavior. What heresy. And you, Stove
To be clear, we excommunicate those who cant play nice in the sandbox.
How we treat one another is such a high priority in scripture, yet our flesh is hungry, and we assert ourselves above our brethren and talk down to them.
Sometimes less is better, and when your misunderstood, it usually happens when you have more to say in regard to yourself and your perspective than listening to what the other actually says, or means.
Jim Parker
Member
hmmmm...we'll have to just let that go by
He stated that God created Adam as a sinner and that Adam was not made in the image and likeness of God. That is about as contrary to scripture as you can get.
And then he posted a bunch of scripture that he imagined supported that nonsense.
"If it walks like a whackadoodle....."
yeah. That's why I put him with my "ignored" folk after he said "I don't know why post the Scripture, it means nothing to you." (Which I reported, by the way.)
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Regarding the ignore feature, some forget this but ToS 2.8 says the following.
The contents of an ignore list are to be kept strictly confidential including an intent to add a member to an ignore list.
Something I'd like to point out is that unless you have some power that has not been experienced since Jesus Himself walked the earth, you are not able to know this about another person. The more likely scenario is they simply don't agree with your understanding the same way you do at this time. We can't force others to see things our way. All we can do is present the information and let the Holy Spirit do the rest and in some cases it is we that need to be corrected.
Jim Parker
Member
Jim Parker
Member
HAH! Good one!
I keep it real. Leadership needs to listen to those they "serve?" or lord it over.
They need to listen.
EDIT: I don't say this to embarrass leadership. I say it because I'd like to see this fellowship grow to its highest potential possible being on the Internet and online. I must also say that these Terms of Service is not service to the brethren, if brethren are "free, free indeed," these Terms of Service puts the people of God back under bondage and under the law.
Please, Jim, no comments like that. Leadership is not the enemy. Good shepherds lead God's people to green pastures and beside still waters. As pointing finger in the hand of God, all I do is point the way. It is up to leadership to decide if they want to go in that direction.
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Jim Parker
Member
Excellent questions. I have my place in the Body and Stove, and John, and WIP and the rest have their place in the Body. I've read Stove's posts and comments. He is one sharp, and deep thinking Christian. They will have to consider these kinds of questions, but overall, it is the Word of God that is supposed to guide our behaviors. Even you, James, have your place in the Body, and your call, and the gifts God has given you to accomplish that call. But in my view, that's the problem. Allowing non-Christians and other adherents of heretical groups in the sheepfold. I can handle myself fairly well. These men that "run" this site I KNOW are smart, intelligent, gifted themselves, and want to do the right thing. Maybe one of them is the ring finger. He'll be married to the flock and you'll see his gift exercised 'naturally.'
But the leadership need to be respected, they need our obedience. Even if they make mistakes. Even if they make a call that you disagree with. They need our obedience. How else will God raise them to be good and great leaders and servants of God and to His people. And we, too. They need to be patient, and encouraging when we sin or do wrong, or make bad calls, because they'll know God is raising us, too. Man, James, the Body of Christ is incredible! We are self-contained. And we are exclusive. If they bring this fellowship under God's control, then I, too, will come under their authority. You know each other more than I do. Some here have the gift of prayer. It should be their ministry to pray an hour a day taking turns and praying for God to guide these men. There is much to do, but God cannot build on a structure that's already in place. Like Dagon God has to knock it DOWN! We all have a role to play. It won't be overnight, but if these things are seriously considered and acted upon this site will be different than all those other sites that have the same rules and ToS. All those other sites may be Christianly, but I have NEVER been a member to a site of believers that is Biblical.