God is not fair

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One of the terrible complaints I had as an unbeliever, and one still seen rather often, is the complaint that God is not fair. And possibly all of us have witnessed preachers bleating back that God is fair. Well, I was curious, so I looked up the word “fair”, which is defined as:
free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules
So let's break it down:
  • In the New Testament, the word “grace” is translated directly from a word meaning “favoritism”; look it up. God has a lot of that. He chooses to whom He will bestow His favoritism.
  • He does have self-interest and bias; He alone is good.
  • He does not conform to the established standards or rules of any of the groups of mankind. He is above all standards and rules. He is Lord, which means sovereign.
"Fair" does include "free from deception". And God does not deceive. But God does not give knowledge of the Father or the Son to all. He makes some blind:

39 Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world so that those who do not see may see and so that those who see may become blind.” 40 Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things and asked him, “Are we also blind?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin, but now you say, 'We see,' so your sin remains.”
John 9:39-41

So indeed. God is very unfair. The only thing fair about Him, by that definition, is the fact that He does not deceive. But there is another usage of "fair", probably a much older one, which can mean "loving" and "lovable". And God is very loving and lovable, as long as you do not expect those other things!!!
 
In contrary, God is an absolutely fair and just God. Favorism won't necessary make one a bad judge. God's affection has little or nothing to do with His jurisidiction. Law and Covenants are an open standard, followed by a fair judgment to everyone. The Judgment of Law is an fair and objective one strictly based on Law set forth before the creation. Covenants are about a Judgment by a fair and just God, though it is a subjective one. Law is about a fair and objective judgment while Covenants are about a fair but subjective judgment carried out by a just God.

All left is the misunderstanding fo humans. The Garden of Eden, planet earth, the final Heaven are all about the co-existence of God, low intelligent humans and high intelligent angels (the bad ones can be described as the 'crafty snake' in Eden) and how they interact with each other. Low intelligent humans are subdued by the high intelligent fallen angels, in Eden as well as on earth. God stands behind such that evil (as plagued by the fallen angels to the stupid humans) will be fully exposed along with the fully exercised freewill, so that it will be eradicated once and for all before it can plague the final Heaven. You see how bad planet earth is, it actually means how good Heaven will be (free of the evil to be eradicated at the stage of planet earth).

At the end you need faith (not knowledge) to be saved, as specified by the Covenant between God and men.
 
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So what does "fair" mean to you? I have yet to see a definition that fits God. Looks to me like "fair" is the same as "good" to many men and women, and so of course "fair" has to be something God is. But then when push comes to shove, there is the cry "That's not fair!"
 
Fairness, as we see it, is often about equality, but God’s ways are beyond human standards. What might feel unfair to us could actually be part of His greater plan that we can’t fully understand. Trusting Him isn’t always easy, but it's faith that helps us see the bigger picture.
 
That's not fair! A common complaint among children and yes often we are not fair. One child's eats all the hated greens, another eats none of them, yet both get the same desert.
Is God fair? Depends what one is looking for.
Equal treatment in health, wealth and opportunity. No.
Because all our circumstances are so very varied, we live in a world cursed by sin and where the changes wrought by sin have drastically altered how we all live.

Those changes, those inequalities in wealth, health and opportunities are not God's fault. He is not the cause.

Is God fair?
If you mean is he fair regarding salvation, then yes. Jesus said to he who searches, he who knocks, they will find, the door will be opened.
 
Fair: impartial and just, without favoritism or discrimination

I'd say God is unfair from perspective (1) and fair from perspective (2)

Perspective (1) is defined as God should ensure each person has the same spiritual and physical commodities. Each person should have the same intelligence, access to the gospel, riches, food, parents, etc. From this perspective God is UNFAIR.

Perspective (2) is defined as God is the Potter and man is the clay. The Potter, as owner and creator, has the right to do as He pleases with His creation. So He molds people as He pleases and favors them according to the attributes He determines each would have. From this perspective God is FAIR.
 
From a sinful, human perspective, it appears that God isn't fair. But, I think the question to ask is: "Why should God be fair at all?" To complain about fairness implies that there is something about us that ought to result in God being fair to us, that we deserve better or more. But we must be very careful in what we say and think about God.

We know that God is love and perfectly good and holy, so we know he has our best interests at heart. That means he knows what each individual needs to become the person he wants them to become. For some it means some very difficult times that might be obvious to all. For others, maybe they don't really need to go through such hard times, maybe they are already more like Christ. But, it may be that they've already gone through very difficult times or that their difficulties are just more hidden and unknown to us.

Besides that, we best keep in mind that none of us deserves a single thing from God, besides wrath (apart from Christ, of course), so we should be thankful for whatever he deems fit to give us, even if from a human perspective it's a pittance.

Mat 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’
Mat 20:5 So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same.
Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
Mat 20:7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
Mat 20:8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’
Mat 20:9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius.
Mat 20:10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius.
Mat 20:11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house,
Mat 20:12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’
Mat 20:13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
Mat 20:14 Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you.
Mat 20:15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’
Mat 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last.” (ESV)
 
so we know he [God] has our best interests at heart
Aside: I assume you're talking about Christians.

? ... I don't think God has our [Christians] best interests at heart. Obviously, God has chosen the elect to be loved and greatly favored. This is particularly illustrated when our fate is compared to the fate of those who will incur God's wrath forever. But I'd say that God has God's best interest at heart and the extent to which our interests favored are because we are a part of God's best interest which is Himself. He alone has intrinsic value.

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith: He does not need any creature he has made, nor does he derive any glory from them. Instead, he demonstrates his own glory in them, by them, to them, and upon them. He alone is the source of all being, and everything is from him, through him, and to him.

WCF Chapter 2.1- “Working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory”. “Nothing is more proper than for a perfect being to work all things for the exaltation of His perfection and righteousness.” R.C. Sproul Truths We Confess

God does everything for his own sake
1 Samuel 12:22 The Lord will not abandon His people for His great name’s sake
Isaiah 48:9 “For the sake of My Name I refrain from My wrath, And for My praise I restrain Myself from you, So that I do not cut you off.
Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and take action! Do not delay, for Your own sake, O my God, because Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”
Isaiah 42:8 “I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.

Aside: He also seems to favor the Kansas City Chiefs (and for Canucks, the Toronto Argonauts)
 
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One of the terrible complaints I had as an unbeliever, and one still seen rather often, is the complaint that God is not fair. And possibly all of us have witnessed preachers bleating back that God is fair. Well, I was curious, so I looked up the word “fair”, which is defined as: free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules
So let's break it down:
  • In the New Testament, the word “grace” is translated directly from a word meaning “favoritism”; look it up. God has a lot of that. He chooses to whom He will bestow His favoritism.
  • He does have self-interest and bias; He alone is good.
  • He does not conform to the established standards or rules of any of the groups of mankind. He is above all standards and rules. He is Lord, which means sovereign.

In my experience, when folks speak of "fairness," typically what they mean is something like "everybody being treated the same according to an unvarying, universal standard." So, when Sally is given a slice of watermelon by her mother and her brother Sammy is not, he complains that "it isn't fair" that Sally got something from Mom that he didn't. He thinks he's entitled to the same treatment by his mother that his sister has experienced and it is "unfair" that this isn't the case. Generally, in my experience, this is what folks mean when they say that something is "unfair."

Atheists, too, when I've engaged with them, think of God being "unfair" in this way. Usually, they resort to the Problem of Evil, or a version of the Euthyphro Dilemma, to make their case. Some humans have it awful, their lives unending and profound misery while others live in the "lap of luxury," even abusing others in order to do so (e.g. drug dealers, criminal oligarchs, politicians, lawyers, etc.). "How is this fair?" atheists have asked me. "If God is loving and all-powerful, shouldn't He move to lift the miserable from their misery and bring down the affluent evil person? That would be more fair."

Well, obviously, according to this common understanding of "fairness," God doesn't appear to be "fair" at all. He might even be evil, since He could "equalize" things among human beings and doesn't. What's usually going on here is that the God-critical man is holding God to his own, self-serving, human standard, justifying his rejection of God on the basis that God hasn't been as fair with him as He ought to have been, for there are many wealthier, more attractive, more intelligent, more powerful people than the God-critical man is and it's just not "fair."

But why should God conform to the standard of the man? It seems far more reasonable that God should apply His own divine standard across-the-board in the "fair" manner that the atheist wants. This would be more perfectly "fair" wouldn't it, since God is, by definition, perfect? Of course, if God did "fairly" apply His divine standard, treating us all exactly as we deserve to be treated under His perfect, holy, just standard, we'd all of us be cast into hell the first time we sinned.

As far as God is concerned, an arrogant look is just as much an abomination as murder (Proverbs 6:16-19); unbelief and bitterness are as much sin as are adultery and rape (Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 12:15; Ephesians 4:31). The slothfulness, or dishonesty, or petty selfishness of the atheist would be just as much under God's immediate punishment as the violence, theft and avarice of the criminal oligarch. This isn't the outcome the God-critical man is looking for, though. He wants God to deal harshly with the serial killer over there, the wretched war-monger in Africa, or the vicious gang leader in Colombia, but not with himself. No, he wants God to be "fair" in a way that brings down those he resents and disapproves of, but that elevates and improves his own circumstances in the way he would like, regardless of his thinking, attitudes and conduct.

Thus, in my experience, the "God isn't fair" complaint is actually often a very self-serving one. Sammy objects to Sally having watermelon when he doesn't get any but conveniently ignores the fact that he snuck a slice of watermelon from the fridge an hour earlier, or disobeyed his mother against the warning that, if he did, he wouldn't get any watermelon, or knows he's allergic to watermelon, and so on. There are myriad good reasons why "life isn't fair" and they never really have anything to do with a flaw in God but in us.

A good NT parable on this question of "fairness" can be found in Matthew 20:1-16.
 
Aside: I assume you're talking about Christians.

? ... I don't think God has our [Christians] best interests at heart. Obviously, God has chosen the elect to be loved and greatly favored. This is particularly illustrated when our fate is compared to the fate of those who will incur God's wrath forever. But I'd say that God has God's best interest at heart and the extent to which our interests favored are because we are a part of God's best interest which is Himself. He alone has intrinsic value.

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith: He does not need any creature he has made, nor does he derive any glory from them. Instead, he demonstrates his own glory in them, by them, to them, and upon them. He alone is the source of all being, and everything is from him, through him, and to him.

WCF Chapter 2.1- “Working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory”. “Nothing is more proper than for a perfect being to work all things for the exaltation of His perfection and righteousness.” R.C. Sproul Truths We Confess

God does everything for his own sake
1 Samuel 12:22 The Lord will not abandon His people for His great name’s sake
Isaiah 48:9 “For the sake of My Name I refrain from My wrath, And for My praise I restrain Myself from you, So that I do not cut you off.
Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and take action! Do not delay, for Your own sake, O my God, because Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”
Isaiah 42:8 “I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
Yes, I am talking about Christians. If God is our heavenly Father and he is perfect and good and holy in all that he does, then he is a perfect Father. It follows that he has our best interests at heart. That we become conformed to the image of his Son and therefore show his glory to the world and bring others to him, is all for his glory. If that is to happen, it can only happen if he has our best interests at heart.

Aside: He also seems to favor the Kansas City Chiefs (and for Canucks, the Toronto Argonauts)
Scratch everything above. Now you have me questioning everything...
 
It follows that he has our best interests at heart. That we become conformed to the image of his Son and therefore show his glory to the world and bring others to him, is all for his glory. If that is to happen, it can only happen if he has our best interests at heart.
I see where you coming from. When I say that God does not have our BEST interests I am not saying He does not GREATLY benefit us. I am saying there is a priority and No.1 on the priority list is God Himself. Therefore, if there is a conflict which will either benefit God or a Christian's best interest, the interest of God will take priority and therefore man's absolute Best Interest would not be served in that situation.
Is it in man's best interest to be sick, have horrible parents, be hungry, not be saved to late in life, etc. etc. ... I think not. Will Christians, being In Christ, not have over whelming benefits ... YES.
Paul says: "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain," .... from this we can conclude that Paul, who was inspired by the Spirit, thinks his lot could be improved which indicates his "best interests" were not being supplied.

Hey, I am splitting hairs here. Christians will have it exceptionally good, but not the BEST POSSIBLE which I am defining as "best interests"; that's what I am saying.

Scratch everything above. Now you have me questioning everything...
LOL
 
then he is a perfect Father. It follows that he has our best interests at heart.
This is seen in Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

As you said the best result for us is to become like Christ.
Problem is our sinful nature resists at every opertunity.
 
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Is this fair and justifiable? Why would God create evil if He is suppose to be a loving just God?

The evil that God has created are His righteous judgements that come upon those who are not obedient to His commands. It's like that of the10 plagues in the book of Exodus as Pharaoh oppresses Israel while taken them into captivity as even though God gave him a chance to let them go he refused so God's punishment came against Egypt.

The same with many battles we read of in the OT that came against God's people as all is done in righteous judgement of God to show He is the Great I Am, Exodus 3:10-15.

So will it also be in the end of days when Christ returns in all His righteous judgement, Rev 19:11-21.
 
Indeed. It all boils down to the meaning of that word "fair" -- and God has never promised to be fair, nor has He defined it.

For the most part, I'll think that "fair" usually means "according to inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." But God has given no inalienable rights to anyone of this world; rather, he has given us the right to die, and an available privilege to deny our rights, to deny ourselves, and seek His Will.
 
Indeed. It all boils down to the meaning of that word "fair" -- and God has never promised to be fair, nor has He defined it.

For the most part, I'll think that "fair" usually means "according to inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." But God has given no inalienable rights to anyone of this world; rather, he has given us the right to die, and an available privilege to deny our rights, to deny ourselves, and seek His Will.
Fair, when it comes to God, are His righteous judgement for good and evil as the God of all creation we worship in His sovereignty has the power an authority to rule over His creation.
 
Indeed. It all boils down to the meaning of that word "fair" -- and God has never promised to be fair, nor has He defined it.

For the most part, I'll think that "fair" usually means "according to inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." But God has given no inalienable rights to anyone of this world; rather, he has given us the right to die, and an available privilege to deny our rights, to deny ourselves, and seek His Will.
Was God "fair" to both Cain & Able ?
 
One of the terrible complaints I had as an unbeliever, and one still seen rather often, is the complaint that God is not fair. And possibly all of us have witnessed preachers bleating back that God is fair. Well, I was curious, so I looked up the word “fair”, which is defined as:

So let's break it down:
  • In the New Testament, the word “grace” is translated directly from a word meaning “favoritism”; look it up. God has a lot of that. He chooses to whom He will bestow His favoritism.
  • He does have self-interest and bias; He alone is good.
  • He does not conform to the established standards or rules of any of the groups of mankind. He is above all standards and rules. He is Lord, which means sovereign.
"Fair" does include "free from deception". And God does not deceive. But God does not give knowledge of the Father or the Son to all. He makes some blind:

39 Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world so that those who do not see may see and so that those who see may become blind.” 40 Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things and asked him, “Are we also blind?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin, but now you say, 'We see,' so your sin remains.”
John 9:39-41

So indeed. God is very unfair. The only thing fair about Him, by that definition, is the fact that He does not deceive. But there is another usage of "fair", probably a much older one, which can mean "loving" and "lovable". And God is very loving and lovable, as long as you do not expect those other things!!!
I get what you're saying, but I don't like the pejorative words for God with negative connotation like "favoritism," "self-interest," "makes some blind," and "unfair." There have to be more-positive synonyms to describe him.

By the way, I think that John 9:39-41 means that God's judgment results in human blindness, not that it causes it.
 
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