GOD OF THE OT / GOD OF THE NT.......IS IT THE SAME GOD?

[GodsGrace]

I don't think God values human life the same way humans do. We have a built-in drive to self-preserve our species and create a world that is most easy, convenient, and comfortable for us. But how does the Bible continually refer to us? Dust, a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes, temporary, transient, mortal, fallen, etc. We most likely vastly overestimate our own worth in God's eyes as evidenced by how things actually are compared to what we have been told to believe about God's love. So while the Bible says God ordered the killing of men, women, and children to be killed, we can be honest about this and say it seems to suggest that isn't really a problem from God's perspective even if to us it seems difficult to accept.

We should reconcile God with reality as Romans 1:20 says. We can observe creation to get an idea of who God is and what God is like. The world has many natural disasters and various different kinds of catastrophes that can happen to anyone whether they be good or bad. Sometimes the bad guy wins and the story doesn't have a satisfying happy ending, too, when the bad guy prospers, and even flourishes while the righteous perish in droves... for generations.

Why? Because God isn't directly involved and manipulating things as much as we may want to believe He is. I sometimes hear people reassure themselves that God is in control and that is heartwarming and gives me courage, but I think it could be wrong as well. I do believe God is in control as far as having set in place the physics that automatically make things happen the way they are supposed to. He can directly intervene, but we have no guarantee for that or a good experience in this existence.

God has provided us the physical and spiritual things we need and wishes the best for us, but isn't going to directly intervene in the way many people seem to expect even if we sometimes suffer and struggle in the process. That's just my two cents.

The above sounds like Deism and is not the God I love and worship and do my best to obey.

I think that since God created life, He must have a great deal of love and r espect for it. I think of His words to Caine....even Cain's blood was of value...

I don't feel like a mist that will vanish.
I feel like a daughter of God, Who has infused in me some kind of nature that will be more pleasing to Him.

So, according to you, we've been told that God loves us but He really doesn't because of how things are here on earth.
So God doesn't love His creation and the entire NT is a lie.

And re directly intervening....
God does not intervene a lot....intervening is what we would call a miracle.
But I believe in miracles, so I think He intervenes every now and then.

But you're allowed you view....I'm not here to convince you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did God drop the bombs? Or man? This is not speaking in a figurative sense, it's a historical fact, a glorious chapter in American history, go google Master of the Air miniseries on Apple TV and 100th flying fortress Bomb Group and you'll know what I'm talking about. From a divine perspective, these bombings were God's divine judgement upon evildoers, they were God's vengeance for blood of the innocent, the six million Jewish people.

Consider it a fulfillment of the controversial Romans 13:1-4 passage, which teaches obedience to authority - of any level, from the president down to the janitor. Governing authorities are ordained by God for one job - protect the good and punish the evil. People often ask, what if the governing authorities themselves are evil? That's where God's check and balances comes in - He'll use other governing authorities to punish the evil governing authorities, in the same way He used Babylon to punish Judah and Assyria Ephraim. It just raised the stake to an international level. I'm afraid that America is under a similar divine judgement, for this illegitimate administration has been punishing the good and protecting the evil.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. (Rom. 13:1-4)

Clarify:
Does God USE (whatever)
or does God strike down?

I see a difference there.

 

[GodsGrace]

The god of the bible should not share any human traits, in my opinion. He souls be, for all intents and purposes, utterly prefect and completely alien to us.

I do believe that God is alien to us, in the sense that I believe you're using that word.

God made us in His image. This means that He gave us some of HIS attributes.
Why would you be adverse to this?
God loves, he gifted us with love.
God thinks, He gifted us with reasoning power.
God forgives, He gifted us with the ability to forgive.
God loves family, He gifted us with the ability to create and have a family.

I could go on.
Making us with some of His attributes, does not make us little gods.
God creates....
go figure, man can paint and create beautiful buildings and make music.

How could you trust him to begin with? How do you know this existence isn't some kind of sadistic trick?

I know. You're very "obsessed" with this idea. Sorry I can't think of a better word.
So, I have to believe this is a matrix,
or I have to believe this is a cruel trick,
or I have to believe none of this is real (which philosophers do believe)...
or who knows how many other ideas are out there.

If I go by what Jesus revealed about God....then I can't believe any of the above reasons.

If we delete Jesus from the picture, then I can agree with you that we have no way of knowing what we're doing here.

But what a sad and lonely place that would be!
Look at us all - trying to fill that God-shaped hole with material things, love affairs that only end up damaging us, power seeking, and who knows what else.

I'll stick with God.
It's the most reasonable alternative.

What say you?

What's stopping you from ditching your bible and forgetting about everything?

Interesting.
I'd say it's because I knew God before I knew the bible.
My bible could disappear tomorrow but God will still be here.
In fact, one of my problems with Protestantism is that we seem to honor the Bible more than we honor God.
Sorry,,,I mean some persons....

The bible helps us to know God better.
But we could love Him and believe in Him even if we never read a bible.
Actually, I've known persons like this.

There are 2 ways to come to God that I know of.
1. You study and read and come to realize that God MUST exist.
2. You have some kind of reawaking or born-again experience and realize that God is real.

Either way is fine and will work in your entering into the Kingdom of God (here on earth).
It's just a matter of wanting it, I guess.

Here's my question:
What's keeping You away?

Perhaps. Although there is always the possibility that Yahweh will join the other gods at some point in the future. Future generations may look upon him as we look upon the Greek gods today.

Sure.
If you could tell me how everything we see came about.
If you could explain to me how the eye evolved.
If you could explain the Cambrian Explosion.
And while you're at it....explain how the cell evolved !

I'm thinking that the more we learn, the more God has to be real.
Darwin himself stated that if the Cambrian explosion could not be explained away, there was a problem with his theory. Well, it hasn't been explained.

Because Jesus was a man. He could have been God incarnate, but there's no way to prove it. For now, we are stuck with faith because God the spirit, remains hidden.

The Resurrection.

If it happened, we are not stuck only with faith, but with a reasonable belief in God and in our Christianity.

If it didn't happen....all our talk here is in vain.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I see a difference there.

Yes, the difference between natural phenomena and human activities.

 

[Alfred Persson]

An eye for an eye.
Is that what Jesus taught?

God didn't do that. That is the fundamental illogic of your objections: "You apply limited knowledge to situations that require full knowledge to judge".

To illustrate: You walk into a theater to see a helpless old man killed by a mob. Immediately you side with the old man and storm out of the theater, dismayed by the violence.

Just before you entered the theater the old man betrayed his village to Satanists who raped and murdered the women and children of the village and stole all they carry away. When returning men of the village saw what happened and who made it possible punished the old man.

What was ignorantly declared evil was actually just. And it showed love for those who died.

Also flawed is equating what Jesus instructed His disciples do, to what God wants governments to do. They are to prosecute, punish evil doers. Christ never taught otherwise.

 

[GodsGrace]

God didn't do that. That is the fundamental illogic of your objections: "You apply limited knowledge to situations that require full knowledge to judge".

To illustrate: You walk into a theater to see a helpless old man killed by a mob. Immediately you side with the old man and storm out of the theater, dismayed by the violence.

Just before you entered the theater the old man betrayed his village who raped and murdered the women and children of the village and stole all they carry away. When returning men of the village saw what happened and who made it possible punished the old man.

Great story.
Wow.
So much to learn from you.

How about sticking to the topic at hand.

YOU posted scripture that upholds an eye for an eye teaching.

This is not what Jesus taught.

So are there 2 different Gods here?

 

[Grailhunter]

Deuteronomy 19:20-21
The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you.
So you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, and foot for foot.

Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ “But I say to you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Why? What changed?

 

[Runningman]

The above sounds like Deism and is not the God I love and worship and do my best to obey.

I think that since God created life, He must have a great deal of love and r espect for it. I think of His words to Caine....even Cain's blood was of value...

I don't feel like a mist that will vanish.
I feel like a daughter of God, Who has infused in me some kind of nature that will be more pleasing to Him.

So, according to you, we've been told that God loves us but He really doesn't because of how things are here on earth.
So God doesn't love His creation and the entire NT is a lie.

And re directly intervening....
God does not intervene a lot....intervening is what we would call a miracle.
But I believe in miracles, so I think He intervenes every now and then.

But you're allowed you view....I'm not here to convince you.

Yes God loves us, but not quite like what you seem to think. What you're describing is a Superman ready to swoop in and save the day just in the nick of time. That ain't happening most of the time and God is comfortable to allow His people to be martyred. He will raise up new prophets and zealots in due time. This doesn't diminish God's glory, love, and power but rather clarifies His dealings with people and the kind of love He has. Reality and the Bible are objective about this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes God loves us, but not quite like what you seem to think. What you're describing is a Superman ready to swoop in and save the day just in the nick of time. That ain't happening most of the time and God is comfortable to allow His people to be martyred. He will raise up new prophets and zealots in due time. This doesn't diminish God's glory, love, and power but rather clarifies His dealings with people and the kind of love He has. Reality and the Bible are objective about this.

You know Runningman,
It's so nice that you know what I seem to think about God.

And even if i did think what you state I do..

So nice of you to take my hope away.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nephilim and later the Rephaim and Anakim
Nephilim Lexicon
Nephilim: "giants," name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood
Original Word: נְפִיל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling: (nef-eel')
Definition: "giants", name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood

Jewish Virtual Library
נְפִילִים), a race of giants said to have dwelt in pre-Israelite Canaan ...

Rephaim
Wikipedia
In the Hebrew Bible, as well as non-Jewish ancient texts from the region, the Northwest Semitic term Rephaite or Repha'im (cf. the plural word in Hebrew: רְפָאִים, romanized: rəfāʾīm (Rephaim); Phoenician: refers either to a people of greater-than-average height and stature in Deuteronomy 2:10-11,

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
רָפָא râphâʼ, raw-faw'; or רָפָה râphâh; from H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant:—giant, Rapha, Rephaim(-s).

Definition of Rephaim Merriam-Webster
: ancient giants reported in the Old Testament to have flourished in Canaan and its vicinity prior to the Hebrews Rephaites are also mentioned at Genesis 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10–21, 3:11; the Book of Joshua (Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16); the Books of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:18–22, 23:13); and the Books of Chronicles (1 Chronicles 11:15, 14:9 and 20:4).

Anakim
: aboriginal giants reported in the Old Testament to have inhabited southern Palestine before the Hebrews entered the land and virtually annihilated them.
Who were the Anakim in the Bible?
Anakim (Hebrew: עֲנָקִים 'Ǎnāqīm) are mentioned in the Bible as a race of giants, descended from Anak, According to the Old Testament, the Anakim lived in the southern part of the land of Canaan, near Hebron.
Their formidable appearance, as described by the Twelve Spies sent to search the land, filled the Israelites with terror. The Israelites seem to have identified them with the Nephilim, the giants (Genesis 6:4, Numbers 13:33) 13:33 “There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”

Joshua finally expelled them from the land, except for some who found a refuge in the Philistine cities of Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod (Joshua 11:22), thus the Philistine giants (Goliath) whom David encountered (2nd Samuel 21:15-22) were descendants of the Anakim.[1]

I know the scriptures I am just saying where are scriptures that say where the giants came from after the flood?

And you are right....Angels do not have sex so no offspring.



Means nothing to me.....Everybody seems to be bringing it up.

Well, thanks for all the study.

 

[Runningman]

You know Runningman,
It's so nice that you know what I seem to think about God.

And even if i did think what you state I do..

So nice of you to take my hope away.

Huh. No, that wasn't my intention. My apologies. I won't talk with you anymore about it then.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Great story.
Wow.
So much to learn from you.

How about sticking to the topic at hand.

YOU posted scripture that upholds an eye for an eye teaching.

This is not what Jesus taught.

So are there 2 different Gods here?

Point was we lack the intellectual capacity and knowledge to judge anything God does.

1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said:
2 "Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it."
3 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.
5 Once I have spoken, but I will not answer; Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further." (Job 40:1-5 NKJ)


Unlike most here, I know Scripture teaches postmortem opportunity for everyone born on earth, therefore only the evil wicked are lost. That after death, there is a judgment and all who pass by declaring their faith in Christ, will be saved.

And in the Kingdom of God a reversal shall take place, precisely as Christ taught in His sermon on the mount. Anyone "wronged" in this life will be compensated beyond their wildest dreams.

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But the foolish believe they can judge God, and disparage Him. They should reread what Jude said, when he cited Enoch:

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. (Jude 1:10-16 NKJ)

 

[Riven]

I do believe that God is alien to us, in the sense that I believe you're using that word.

God made us in His image. This means that He gave us some of HIS attributes.
Why would you be adverse to this?
God loves, he gifted us with love.
God thinks, He gifted us with reasoning power.
God forgives, He gifted us with the ability to forgive.
God loves family, He gifted us with the ability to create and have a family.

Because a divine being should be above such things.

But what a sad and lonely place that would be!
Look at us all - trying to fill that God-shaped hole with material things, love affairs that only end up damaging us, power seeking, and who knows what else.

I'll stick with God.
It's the most reasonable alternative.

What say you?

I am unsure. Believing in God is one thing. Believing that the bible is true is quite another.

There are 2 ways to come to God that I know of.
1. You study and read and come to realize that God MUST exist.
2. You have some kind of reawaking or born-again experience and realize that God is real.

Either way is fine and will work in your entering into the Kingdom of God (here on earth).
It's just a matter of wanting it, I guess.

Here's my question:
What's keeping You away?

The fact that science contradicts many of the stories in the bible, and there's no evidence that the resurrection actually happened. I admire people who can have faith in such things, but I cannot.

Sure.
If you could tell me how everything we see came about.
If you could explain to me how the eye evolved.
If you could explain the Cambrian Explosion.
And while you're at it....explain how the cell evolved !

I'm not an evolutionary biologist. So I couldn't tell you.

The Resurrection.

If it happened, we are not stuck only with faith, but with a reasonable belief in God and in our Christianity.

If it didn't happen....all our talk here is in vain.

I agree.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I just hear too many explanations that make no sense to me and I feel like we Christians have God locked away in some box of our making - but maybe there are other explanations?

Yes, but not in the way you think. To most Americans who self-identified as Christians, God is degraded from the creator of the universe to a personal butler, therapist and cheerleader. They think of themselves as the hero in the movie of their lives directed by God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

An eye for an eye.
Is that what Jesus taught?

Great story.
Wow.
So much to learn from you.

How about sticking to the topic at hand.

YOU posted scripture that upholds an eye for an eye teaching.

This is not what Jesus taught.

So are there 2 different Gods here?

An eye must be paid for an eye, a tooth must be paid for a tooth, that was God's law which could be dated back to Gen. 9. The purpose was not vengeance, punishment or even deterrence of crime, but to contain the extent of retribution. Without an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, vigilante justice will fill in, the victim's friends, families and other stakeholders will go after the perp for blood, the vicious cycle goes on and may get out of control, and the retribution would far exceed the damage caused by the initial offense. Think about the deadly feud between the Montagues and the Capulets in Romeo and Juliet, it started with a small squabble in the market, at the end the kids, future heirs of both families perished. Another example in real history, the Great War in the 1910s was triggered by an assassination of an Austrian prince. Major power players in Europe failed to contain it, they took sides and let it escalate, and it quickly snowballed into a full blown world war that took away millions of lives and completely shattered the old imperial order. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it.

What Jesus taught though is to not hold a grudge against your neighbor for their offense, in other words, don't bring this law into a personal conflict just to even the score, deal with it in a mature and civilized manner. If they have done you wrong and broken the law, your option is to call the police or other authorities, gather evidence and witnesses, press charges against them, yield it to the judge and settle it in court, for vengeance is God's, and these authorities are God's ministers to carry out his vengeance. In principle, you treat the offense as business matter, but in your heart you forgive your offender and let it go,

A good biblical example is Esau and Jacob in Gen. 33. Esau hated Jacob for cheating his father and stealing his birthright, even though he sold it for a bowl of soup. Jacob was afraid that Esau would kill him, the fled from his family to uncle Laban. Many years later he left Laban with his clan, and he spotted Esau, he was still afraid that Esau was coming after him, he even divided his entourage so Esau's men wouldn't be able to catch them all, but Esau met with him peacefully, even joyfully, and they reconciled.

 

[Iconoclast]

What does that comment have to do with Reformed?

He means he offered a biblically solid post.

 

[Who Me]

You post some verses.
What do they mean?
It would be nice to know why you posted them.

You askedfor verses to prove God grants life and ends life in post 95.

 

[GodsGrace]

You askedfor verses to prove God grants life and ends life in post 95.

I think all Christians know this.
And now too much time has passed and I don't recall our discussion.

No way could it have been about granting and taking life.

If you recall,,,OK.
Otherwise we have to let it go.

 

[Free]

The bible teaches me that God is
LOVING
MERCIFUL
JUST

But, what else is God's nature, that is very important? Holiness. His justice flows from his holiness, which means we will not be able to understand his justice until we understand just how utterly sinful sin actually is, how much of a cancer it is and spreads if it isn't cut out and eradicated.

As the God of the OT is portrayed IN SOME OF THE STORIES, I have to say that it's not the God I know.
Now, God can be however He wants to be - but if there's a conflict then we have to come to terms with it.

I just hear too many explanations that make no sense to me and I feel like we Christians have God locked away in some box of our making - but maybe there are other explanations?

We must consider that all mankind are “by nature children of wrath” (Eph 2:3), because God is holy. Such people are already condemned (John 3:28) and we know that in the end, many will perish. We must also understand that the Lord “is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance” (2 Pet 3:9).

We see echoes of that in the OT as well:

Psa 86:5 For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving, abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
...
Psa 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. (ESV)

Joe 2:13 and rend your hearts and not your garments.” Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster. (ESV)

And consider Ninevah.

What else do we see in the OT? We see God dealing with the utter sinfulness of humans:

Deu 9:4 “Do not say in your heart, after the LORD your God has thrust them out before you, ‘It is because of my righteousness that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land,’ whereas it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you.
Deu 9:5 Not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart are you going in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations the LORD your God is driving them out from before you, and that he may confirm the word that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Deu 9:6 “Know, therefore, that the LORD your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stubborn people. (ESV)

Deu 20:16 But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes,
Deu 20:17 but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the LORD your God has commanded,
Deu 20:18 that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the LORD your God. (ESV)

And what of Numbers 31, then? We look at Numbers 22-25 for the context and see the attempt at the moral and spiritual destruction of the Israelites, particularly chapter 25 with the Israelites being lead into idol worship and sexual impurity.

Gen 15:13 Then the LORD said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years.
Gen 15:14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.
Gen 15:15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” (ESV)

Lev 18:1 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Lev 18:2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the LORD your God.
Lev 18:3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes.
Lev 18:4 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God.
Lev 18:5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.
Lev 18:7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
Lev 18:8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness.
Lev 18:9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home.
Lev 18:10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
Lev 18:11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, brought up in your father's family, since she is your sister.
Lev 18:12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative.
Lev 18:13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's relative.
Lev 18:14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
Lev 18:15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
Lev 18:16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
Lev 18:17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity.
Lev 18:18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.
Lev 18:19 “You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.
Lev 18:20 And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor's wife and so make yourself unclean with her.
Lev 18:21 You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Lev 18:23 And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion.
Lev 18:24 “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean,
Lev 18:25 and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. (ESV)

That is quite the list of moral and spiritual depravity, hence the need for judgement.

Pro 29:1 He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck, will suddenly be broken beyond healing. (ESV)

Just as we see that in the time of Noah, God gave those people 120 years of Noah's preaching, God gave the Amorites 400 years. Due to the incredible wickedness of those people, God wanted their sinful practices completely removed so that the Israelites wouldn't follow those practices. But, what happened? Israel ended up following those practices and they also faced judgement for doing so.

 

[Free]

A member brought up the Nazis and how they were exterminated.
But man exterminated them....I never learned that God did.

God works through man....how could we possibly know when it's man doing the killing and when it's God demanding the killing?

Theologians supposedly know the difference.

"What guidelines do we have to determine when a culture is irredeemable, beyond the point of no moral and spiritual return? Don’t we need something more than mere mortals to assess a culture’s ripeness for judgment? Aren’t these considerations too weighty for humans to judge? Yes, they are! Any such determinations should be left up to God—namely, through special revelation. The Israelites, when they went into battle against the Philistines with the ark of the covenant but without divine approval, were roundly defeated (1 Sam. 4). The requirement of special revelation before any such undertaking is precisely what we have in Scripture. The one true God told his prophet Moses or Samuel when the time was right. Likewise, without such clear divine guidance, Israel wouldn’t have been justified in attacking the Canaanite strongholds."

Copan, Paul. Is God a Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God (p. 161). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

There are laws in the OT that are from God and some that are from Moses. Jesus corrected one law of Moses that come to mind .... How could Jesus CORRECT something God demanded? Perhaps it wasn't God making the demand?

Did he correct it or bring the point of it to light? The Law focused on outward actions but Jesus points out that sin is actually a heart issue:

Mat 15:18 "But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
Mat 15:20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.” (ESV)

Hence:

Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
...
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (ESV)

Just some food for thought...

And some more:

"Yale theologian Miroslav Volf was born in Croatia and lived through the nightmare years of ethnic strife in the former Yugoslavia that included the destruction of churches, the raping of women, and the murdering of innocents. He once thought that wrath and anger were beneath God, but he came to realize that his view of God had been too low. Here Volf puts the New Atheists’ complaints about divine wrath into proper perspective:

I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn’t God love? Shouldn’t divine love be beyond wrath? God is love, and God loves every person and every creature. That’s exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God’s wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, the region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalized beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming the perpetrators’ basic goodness? Wasn’t God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God’s wrath, I came to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn’t wrathful at the sight of the world’s evil. God isn’t wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love."

Copan, Paul. Is God a Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God (p. 192). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

"In one of his earlier and most important writings, written in German under the title Rechtfertigen and translated to English under the title Justification, Dr. Küng deals with this very question of the seeming injustice of God’s wrath that we find in Scripture, particularly in the Old Testament. He makes the point that the real mystery of iniquity, the real puzzle is not that a holy and righteous God should exercise justice. What is mysterious about a holy creator punishing willfully disobedient creatures? The real mystery is why God, through generation after generation, tolerates rebellious creatures who commit cosmic treason against His authority."

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/holiness-of-god/holiness-and-justice

There is no difference between God in the OT and God in the NT. All mankind faces his wrath for their continual sin and failure to acknowledge him as God even though they know better (Rom 1:18-21). At all times God has been more than patient, certainly significantly more than humans deserve.