GOD OF THE OT / GOD OF THE NT.......IS IT THE SAME GOD?

[Iconoclast]

"What guidelines do we have to determine when a culture is irredeemable, beyond the point of no moral and spiritual return? Don’t we need something more than mere mortals to assess a culture’s ripeness for judgment? Aren’t these considerations too weighty for humans to judge? Yes, they are! Any such determinations should be left up to God—namely, through special revelation. The Israelites, when they went into battle against the Philistines with the ark of the covenant but without divine approval, were roundly defeated (1 Sam. 4). The requirement of special revelation before any such undertaking is precisely what we have in Scripture. The one true God told his prophet Moses or Samuel when the time was right. Likewise, without such clear divine guidance, Israel wouldn’t have been justified in attacking the Canaanite strongholds."

Copan, Paul. Is God a Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God (p. 161). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.


Did he correct it or bring the point of it to light? The Law focused on outward actions but Jesus points out that sin is actually a heart issue:

Mat 15:18 "But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
Mat 15:20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.” (ESV)

Hence:

Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
...
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (ESV)


And some more:

"Yale theologian Miroslav Volf was born in Croatia and lived through the nightmare years of ethnic strife in the former Yugoslavia that included the destruction of churches, the raping of women, and the murdering of innocents. He once thought that wrath and anger were beneath God, but he came to realize that his view of God had been too low. Here Volf puts the New Atheists’ complaints about divine wrath into proper perspective:

I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn’t God love? Shouldn’t divine love be beyond wrath? God is love, and God loves every person and every creature. That’s exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God’s wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, the region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalized beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming the perpetrators’ basic goodness? Wasn’t God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God’s wrath, I came to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn’t wrathful at the sight of the world’s evil. God isn’t wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love."

Copan, Paul. Is God a Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God (p. 192). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

"In one of his earlier and most important writings, written in German under the title Rechtfertigen and translated to English under the title Justification, Dr. Küng deals with this very question of the seeming injustice of God’s wrath that we find in Scripture, particularly in the Old Testament. He makes the point that the real mystery of iniquity, the real puzzle is not that a holy and righteous God should exercise justice. What is mysterious about a holy creator punishing willfully disobedient creatures? The real mystery is why God, through generation after generation, tolerates rebellious creatures who commit cosmic treason against His authority."

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/holiness-of-god/holiness-and-justice

There is no difference between God in the OT and God in the NT. All mankind faces his wrath for their continual sin and failure to acknowledge him as God even though they know better (Rom 1:18-21). At all times God has been more than patient, certainly significantly more than humans deserve.

Thank you for these two helpful posts

 

[Free]

Thank you for these two helpful posts

You're welcome.

There is, of course, more that could be said, and that is why I highly, highly recommend Paul Copan's book, Is God a Moral Monster? I also just remembered another, The God I Don't Understand, by Christopher J. H. Wright. He addresses issues in the OT and NT (evil and suffering in general).

Btw, GodsGrace, I would be very concerned about any who profess to follow Christ and aren't at least a bit disturbed by the issues you raise. They aren't simple and raise serious questions about the nature of God, and take far more study than I think most people have time for. At least the two books above give some solid guidance and are a good starting point.

 

[electedbyHim]

You're welcome.

There is, of course, more that could be said, and that is why I highly, highly recommend Paul Copan's book, Is God a Moral Monster? I also just remembered another, The God I Don't Understand, by Christopher J. H. Wright. He addresses issues in the OT and NT (evil and suffering in general).

Thank you for this.

I just put both books in my Logos cart.

There can never be enough undertsanding on this subject.

 

[electedbyHim]

You're welcome.

There is, of course, more that could be said, and that is why I highly, highly recommend Paul Copan's book, Is God a Moral Monster? I also just remembered another, The God I Don't Understand, by Christopher J. H. Wright. He addresses issues in the OT and NT (evil and suffering in general).

Btw, GodsGrace, I would be very concerned about any who profess to follow Christ and aren't at least a bit disturbed by the issues you raise. They aren't simple and raise serious questions about the nature of God, and take far more study than I think most people have time for. At least the two books above give some solid guidance and are a good starting point.

Free would you reccomend one of those books oveer the other?

 

[Free]

Free would you reccomend one of those books oveer the other?

I suppose it depends. If you can look at the tables of contents, it will give a good idea of what is in each. Copan's book is all about the God of the OT and so goes much deeper into explaining the issues people have with different laws, the "genocides," etc. Wright's book begins with discussion about evil and suffering, touches on the Canaanites for a couple of chapters, then moves on to the cross and beyond.

Both books are pretty much identical in length, over 220ish pages, so that gives an idea of just how much more in-depth Copan’s OT discussion is. I’ve just talked myself into recommending that one more. Lol But both are very good.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're welcome.

There is, of course, more that could be said, and that is why I highly, highly recommend Paul Copan's book, Is God a Moral Monster? I also just remembered another, The God I Don't Understand, by Christopher J. H. Wright. He addresses issues in the OT and NT (evil and suffering in general).

Btw, GodsGrace, I would be very concerned about any who profess to follow Christ and aren't at least a bit disturbed by the issues you raise. They aren't simple and raise serious questions about the nature of God, and take far more study than I think most people have time for. At least the two books above give some solid guidance and are a good starting point.

Hi Free
Just glanced over your 2 posts and I'm not even sure they're replying to the topic at hand. Will read them again later or tomorrow morning and then reply.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

"What guidelines do we have to determine when a culture is irredeemable, beyond the point of no moral and spiritual return? Don’t we need something more than mere mortals to assess a culture’s ripeness for judgment? Aren’t these considerations too weighty for humans to judge? Yes, they are! Any such determinations should be left up to God—namely, through special revelation.

I would say the answer lies within Abraham's bargin with God in Gen. 18:16-33. If there're at least ten righteous saints in corrupt culture, those are the embodiment of the Holy Spirit, which is a restraining force (2 Thess. 2:6-7), a moral force of goodness that restrains evil in a manageable level. As long as this small remnant is in place, God would spare this nation for their sake, there's still hope. But if the last ten remaining saints are persecuted, the whole culture is of one corrupt mind, as was the case of the days of Noah and the city of Sodom, then it's truly irredeemable, it would be totally dismantled, such as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

 

[eddif]

"What guidelines do we have to determine when a culture is irredeemable, beyond the point of no moral and spiritual return? Don’t

who made this statement?

God does nothing except he reveals it to his prophets.


Ezekiel in particular revealed the deaths coming on those in Jerusalem. Also, God foretold the coming law to be placed in hearts and minds. 400 years later the story picks up again.

Just one group of the culture center was spared. Those who mourned (sighed) over the sins of Israel. These were sent to the nations to spare their lives and be witnesses to the nations.

Not that that I can do it justice, but Covid shows us that immune response can fail. I hope we study the DNA book to learn how the mRNA message was wrong; just like the false prophets message was wrong (in Ezekiel’s time).

The things of God are seen in what he created. The false is also pointed out.

eddif

 

[Iconoclast]

who made this statement?

God does nothing except he reveals it to his prophets.

Amos3:
“You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”
3 Do two walk together unless they have agreed to do so?
4 Does a lion roar in the thicket when it has no prey?
Does it growl in its den when it has caught nothing?
5 Does a bird swoop down to a trap on the ground when no bait is there?
Does a trap spring up from the ground if it has not caught anything?
6 When a trumpet sounds in a city,do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Ezekiel in particular revealed the deaths coming on those in Jerusalem. Also, God foretold the coming law to be placed in hearts and minds. 400 years later the story picks up again.

yes

Just one group of the culture center was spared. Those who mourned (sighed) over the sins of Israel. These were sent to the nations to spare their lives and be witnesses to the nations.

Not that that I can do it justice, but Covid shows us that immune response can fail. I hope we study the DNA book to learn how the mRNA message was wrong; just like the false prophets message was wrong (in Ezekiel’s time).

The things of God are seen in what he created. The false is also pointed out.

good post

eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes God loves us, but not quite like what you seem to think. What you're describing is a Superman ready to swoop in and save the day just in the nick of time. That ain't happening most of the time and God is comfortable to allow His people to be martyred. He will raise up new prophets and zealots in due time. This doesn't diminish God's glory, love, and power but rather clarifies His dealings with people and the kind of love He has. Reality and the Bible are objective about this.

Runningman,
One of the reasons I dislike posting much anymore is because of your post above.
WHEN did I ever make the statement you are posting above?

Now, am I supposed to sit here for the next 10 minutes and spend the time CORRECTING what you didn't understand about what I've stated? Did I state it incorrectly? Do I not really know what I believe but YOU do?

I DON'T BELIEVE GO IS SUPERMAN.
I DON'T BELEIVE H E SAVES THE DAY JUST IN TIME.
I BELIEVE MAN IS EMPOWERED TO SAVE THE DAY AND IT'S UP TO US.
I DON'T BELIEVE GOD IS HAPPY WHEN ONE OF HIS CREATURES IS MARTYRED.
I NEVER SAID I DON'T BELIEVE GOD DOESN'T HAVE GLORY - FOR WHATEVER REASON.
I BELIEVE GOD'S LOVE FOR US IS CLARIFIED BY JESUS - GOD ON EARTH - IN HUMAN FORM.

Now, if you don't agree with what I believe, that's fine.
But please don't tell me what I believe.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Point was we lack the intellectual capacity and knowledge to judge anything God does.

1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said:
2 "Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it."
3 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.
5 Once I have spoken, but I will not answer; Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further." (Job 40:1-5 NKJ)

How many times have I stated we cannot know God fully?
Many.

But we're discussing here something the bible states plainly.
You brought up an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

In the OT it's said that God taught that an eye must be taken for an eye....etc.
Now you could understand this however you wish to....
However, JESUS stated that this is not correct with His famous words
YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID.

Be careful when you hear Jesus say this....
A correction is coming up.

Does this mean that God made a mistake in the OT?
He really didn't mean to take an eye for an eye?

Sure those verses you posted are great....
God could do whatever He wants to do.
But has He changed so much from the OT to the NT?

This is what this thread is about.
How do we explain this difference....
and a difference there is.

Unlike most here, I know Scripture teaches postmortem opportunity for everyone born on earth, therefore only the evil wicked are lost. That after death, there is a judgment and all who pass by declaring their faith in Christ, will be saved.

I don't know too much about this teaching, although I do have a friend that attends a church that believes this.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.
You say only the wicked are lost.
But don't they get a second chance?

If I'm dead....
and I know it....
And God gives me a second chance....
what kind of a crazy person would I have to be not to take it?

I won't derail this thread so I won't be posting verses and replying back and forth, however if you answer the above, it would be appreciated.

And in the Kingdom of God a reversal shall take place, precisely as Christ taught in His sermon on the mount. Anyone "wronged" in this life will be compensated beyond their wildest dreams.

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Oh. Is this what you get from the Sermon on the Mount?
We won't discuss this here.
But this would mean, however, that we will all be compensated beyond belief since we all suffer being wronged in this life.

But the foolish believe they can judge God, and disparage Him. They should reread what Jude said, when he cited Enoch:

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. (Jude 1:10-16 NKJ)

Well, if you think I'm judging God, then you've missed the point of the OP.

 

[GodsGrace]

Because a divine being should be above such things.


I am unsure. Believing in God is one thing. Believing that the bible is true is quite another.

Believing in God is sufficient.
If you'd like to know more about Him, then reading the bible is a good idea.
Believing in the bible?
Well, if God exists
and He revealed Himself to man
and used the bible to do it,
why wouldn't you believe it?
Maybe there are certain PARTS you find difficult to accept,
so do we just ditch the entire book(s)?

The fact that science contradicts many of the stories in the bible, and there's no evidence that the resurrection actually happened. I admire people who can have faith in such things, but I cannot.

So you have faith....but it's in science.
This is most interesting since the bible CAME FIRST and I don't understand what it contradicts....
If you reply, please keep in mind that I'm not a fundamentalist.

I'm not an evolutionary biologist. So I couldn't tell you.

No problem.
They can't explain it either.

Darwin stated that if the Cambrian Explosion could not be explained,,,then his theory MIGHT be incorrect.

It hasn't been explained as to this date.
No one knows why these missing links in the strata of earth.
No one knows why this sudden burst of life at some point - which I cannot really remember when but before man.

I don't put my faith in science.
I like putting my faith in the God that created a universe that allows science to be able to function by creating the rules that make that universe function.

Math.
What is math.
Was it invented or was it discovered?

Something to ponder.
(which, knowing you, you probably already have).

 

[kjw47]

Common question.
Different answers.
Wm Lane Craig has a new one that is rather disturbing.

Persons are rather disturbed that God ordered all men, women and CHILDREN, to be killed

Numbers 31:

​

New Living Translation Par ▾ Conquest of the Midianites 1Then the LORD said to Moses, 2“On behalf of the people of Israel, take revenge on the Midianites for leading them into idolatry. After that, you will die and join your ancestors.” 3So Moses said to the people, “Choose some men, and arm them to fight the LORD’s war of revenge against Midian. 4From each tribe of Israel, send 1,000 men into battle.” 5So they chose 1,000 men from each tribe of Israel, a total of 12,000 men armed for battle. 6Then Moses sent them out, 1,000 men from each tribe, and Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest led them into battle. They carried along the holy objects of the sanctuary and the trumpets for sounding the charge. 7They attacked Midian as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. 8All five of the Midianite kings—Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba—died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. 10They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. 11After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, 12they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. 13Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14But Moses was furious with all the generals and captainsa who had returned from the battle. 15“Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. 16“These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. 17So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. 18Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. 19And all of you who have killed anyone or touched a dead body must stay outside the camp for seven days. You must purify yourselves and your captives on the third and seventh days. 20Purify all your clothing, too, and everything made of leather, goat hair, or wood.”

Craig stated it's OK because God created them and has the authority to kill them....
The children will be better off in heaven...

I believe we must all come to terms with the Old Testament God.
Although the attributes are the same, God, in the OT, does seem to compromise His nature by ordering killings.

How did you come to terms with this problem?


Riven

Yes it is the same God= The Abrahamic God--Jesus is his image, He showed all Gods love while on Earth, but here at Rev 19:11--99% will go down by Jesus leading Gods armies to the earth. They will be shocked. He has warned the earth this is coming for over 1900 years.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is the same God= The Abrahamic God--Jesus is his image, He showed all Gods love while on Earth, but here at Rev 19:11--99% will go down by Jesus leading Gods armies to the earth. They will be shocked. He has warned the earth this is coming for over 1900 years.

You're talking about the future....
I'm talking about the past.

If you could reconcile the 2, OK.
Otherwise, I don't really know why you stated what you did.

 

[kjw47]

You're talking about the future....
I'm talking about the past.

If you could reconcile the 2, OK.
Otherwise, I don't really know why you stated what you did.

You must be failing to realize, Jesus was at Gods side when God ordered all the killing in the OT. Jesus lives to do Gods will thus Jesus agreed 100% with God on those judgements.

 

[Riven]

You must be failing to realize, Jesus was at Gods side when God ordered all the killing in the OT. Jesus lives to do Gods will thus Jesus agreed 100% with God on those judgements.

So, is that how it works? They're like two independent rulers ruling over heaven? Do they ever have disagreements? The holy trinity is... difficult to wrap my head around.

 

[kjw47]

So, is that how it works? They're like two independent rulers ruling over heaven? Do they ever have disagreements? The holy trinity is... difficult to wrap my head around.

Jesus lives to do his Fathers will, as do all true followers( Matt 7:21)--They aren't independent. Jesus is Gods image, he agrees 100% on every matter God judges.

 

[Alfred Persson]

How many times have I stated we cannot know God fully?
Many.

But we're discussing here something the bible states plainly.
You brought up an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

In the OT it's said that God taught that an eye must be taken for an eye....etc.
Now you could understand this however you wish to....
However, JESUS stated that this is not correct with His famous words
YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID.

Be careful when you hear Jesus say this....
A correction is coming up.

Does this mean that God made a mistake in the OT?
He really didn't mean to take an eye for an eye?

Christ isn't contradicting the Torah, that is why He didn't say "it is written".

'You have heard what the religious leaders said, but I tell you...."

He is contradicting the interpretation by the Pharisees, what they said. They quoted to Torah to teach retaliation, to "get even, take revenge quickly".

Remember the context, Jewish zealots would quote scripture to justify their evil against the Romans.

Commentary

Jesus continues his authoritative exposition of the true divine intent of the Torah.4 There is a grudging sort of spirit that afflicts mankind by nature—at least, fallen mankind. Keep score; tit for tat; even-steven, that’s the thing. “Do unto others before they do it to you,” said with a sneer. Given this universal human condition, it was inevitable that some teachers in first-century Judaism would have taken the biblical admonitions regarding just penalties and recompense (Ex 21:24; Lev 24:20; Deut 19:21) and married to them this perspective of “do what you have to, and be sure to get even.”
This is as far away from the Torah’s intention as the east is from the west. Kleinig summarizes how the Law’s statements about retribution were intended to function, even on the level of legal interactions in non-Israelite societies:

The lex talionis [“law of retribution”] was already elaborated quite explicitly in Mesopotamia long before it was mentioned in the OT. It performed two very important functions there and in ancient Israel. First, it limited the scope for revenge, which always tended to escalate indiscriminately and endlessly in any tribal society. By it, the principle of equivalence was enshrined in the administration of justice. Second, it treated the life and the body of every person as equal in value regardless of social, racial, and economic status.5

In place of a spirit of grudging recompense and quick revenge, Jesus calls his disciples to lives of reckless generosity and naiveté.6 His teaching is hyperbolic—but that does not mean that he is not serious.7 His words are to reform our instincts, our quick reactions, our unwillingness to sacrifice. St. Paul hits very close to this same target with his admonition to not repay evil for evil, but to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:18–21).
If Jesus disciples will err, let it be on the side of not retaliating, of yielding, of giving, or of being taken advantage of. A backhanded slap on the face is not assault; it is insult.8 Jews in the first century could readily be forced by occupying Roman soldiers to relinquish possessions or even for a time their freedom.9 The One who teaches these things himself embodied such willing nonresistance and self-sacrifice and quiet submission to evil men when he gave his back to blows and his cheeks to striking.10 In the strength of his eschatological blessing (5:3–12), Jesus’ disciples can learn to exhibit this strong softness, gaining more by giving up what might be theirs by reasonable expectation and by right.

Gibbs, J. A. (2006). Matthew 1:1–11:1 (pp. 302–303). Concordia Publishing House.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I don't know too much about this teaching, although I do have a friend that attends a church that believes this.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.
You say only the wicked are lost.
But don't they get a second chance?

If I'm dead....
and I know it....
And God gives me a second chance....
what kind of a crazy person would I have to be not to take it?

It concerns the topic because its possible we don't have all the facts. People hate Christianity because they believe it teaches their unsaved family and friends are roasting in the flames of torment.

But as I point out, THAT isn't what scripture teaches. Therefore, all who reject Christianity do so ignorantly. Yet they believe they can judge God, or Christianity. That is delusional. WE don't know what we don't know, that changes everything.

Your last question implies God would tolerate those who feign repentance. There is something essentially bad in the wicked, they love wickedness. They can't hide that from God. They will try to fool Him, but He won't be deceived:

Compare what apostates claim when Christ Judges them, that they follow Him:

22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matt. 7:22-23 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Oh. Is this what you get from the Sermon on the Mount?
We won't discuss this here.
But this would mean, however, that we will all be compensated beyond belief since we all suffer being wronged in this life.

The overriding theme of the Sermon on the Mount is a "reversal of fortune". It logically follows the joys of God's Kingdom will "more than compensate" for any "wrong" that happened in this life. An example might be the blind man who was healed. He suffered blindness from birth, yet at the proper time Christ heals him and its an essential event in the revelation of God. Surely his reward in God's Kingdom will more than compensate.

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 "Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. (Matt. 5:1-13 NKJ)

1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.
4 "I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work.
5 "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
6 When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay.
7 And He said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam " (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.
8 Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was blind said, "Is not this he who sat and begged?"
9 Some said, "This is he. " Others said, "He is like him." He said, "I am he."
10 Therefore they said to him, "How were your eyes opened?"
11 He answered and said, "A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me,`Go to the pool of Siloam and wash.' So I went and washed, and I received sight."
12 Then they said to him, "Where is He?" He said, "I do not know."
13 They brought him who formerly was blind to the Pharisees.
14 Now it was a Sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes.
15 Then the Pharisees also asked him again how he had received his sight. He said to them, "He put clay on my eyes, and I washed, and I see."
16 Therefore some of the Pharisees said, "This Man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath." Others said, "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" And there was a division among them.
17 They said to the blind man again, "What do you say about Him because He opened your eyes?" He said, "He is a prophet."
18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and received his sight, until they called the parents of him who had received his sight.
19 And they asked them, saying, "Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?"
20 His parents answered them and said, "We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind;
21 "but by what means he now sees we do not know, or who opened his eyes we do not know. He is of age; ask him. He will speak for himself."
22 His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed that He was Christ, he would be put out of the synagogue.
23 Therefore his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."
24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, "Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner."
25 He answered and said, "Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see."
26 Then they said to him again, "What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?"
27 He answered them, "I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
28 Then they reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are Moses' disciples.
29 "We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from."
30 The man answered and said to them, "Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes!
31 "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.
32 "Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind.
33 "If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing."
34 They answered and said to him, "You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?" And they cast him out.
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?"
36 He answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?"
37 And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you."
38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.
39 And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind." (Jn. 9:1-39 NKJ)