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God the Father created Jesus

And I believe that there is a misunderstanding of 'the Word'. It DOES NOT say that in the beginning was Christ, it specifically uses the word 'Word'. Now, you may insist that the word Word means specifically Christ. I do NOT accept your interpretation of this word, 'simply' meaning Christ. If it was meant to MEAN Christ, PERIOD, then this is what John would have offered. And folks, not a hard thing to do to make something 'seem' like it means 'somehting else', to simply change a 'small' w, to a 'capital' W.
 
Thessalonian said:
So are we son's of Christ?
Click to expand...

I don't believe what He is calling us in those verses means much. It seems that you are playing game here.
 
gingercat said:
Prov 8:22-31
22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;

23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.

24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;

25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,

26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.

27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,

31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Those verses are all about Jesus!
Click to expand...

God the Father did not create Jesus; He is Jesus. Jesus said, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Harry :fadein:
 
SpiritualSon said:
gingercat said:
Prov 8:22-31
22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;

23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.

24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;

25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,

26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.

27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,

31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Those verses are all about Jesus!
Click to expand...

God the Father did not create Jesus; He is Jesus. Jesus said, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

Are you saying that those verses are not truth?
 
SpiritualSon said:
Jesus said, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

It is because Jesus is a perfect representative of God, and He does everything what His father wants Him to do!
 
Here is how Jesus can be created and yet still be God.

John 10:30 (King James Version) I and my Father are one.

So simple yet profound.
 
gingercat said:
SpiritualSon said:
gingercat said:
Prov 8:22-31
22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;

23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.

24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;

25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,

26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.

27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,

31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Those verses are all about Jesus!
Click to expand...

God the Father did not create Jesus; He is Jesus. Jesus said, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

Are you saying that those verses are not truth?
Click to expand...

gingercat,
God the Creator had always been Divine Human. If He weren't Human, why did He create us in His image?
The Son from eternity was the Divine Human of the Creator from eternity - also that it was the proceeding Divine, from which is heaven, and was the Divine that forms heaven - is plain from the Lord's words, that they saw not and heard not the Father; also from considering that all things were made by the Divine truth; then that the Lord appeared as Man before the sons of Israel, and that they saw under the soles of His feet, as a sapphire and as heaven as to clearness; that it is said, "This day have I begotten thee"; and that the Lord said, "Such as I was with thee from the foundation of the world"; that He also is the Son of Man, spoken of in Daniel, and that the Lord became the same as to His Human; also that in Luke, He is called the Son of God, for it is said that "the Word was made flesh." It is plain that it was the same and the one Divine.

Harry :fadein:
 
SpiritualSon said:
If He weren't Human, why did He create us in His image?


Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

God has feelings. That's what He means by image. God is Spirit and humans are not!
 
Gendou Ikari said:
John 10:30 (King James Version) I and my Father are one.
Click to expand...

Jesus said that because He does His father's will. He is perfect representative of His Father. He does everything what His Father wants Him to do. Yes, it is a simple verse. :D
 
gingercat said:
SpiritualSon said:
Jesus said, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

It is because Jesus is a perfect representative of God, and He does everything what His father wants Him to do!
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ is not a representative of the Father, He is the Father. The Father put on a Human, which means He became Man, so that He may do the works of redemption. Redemption could not be done unless the Father were a Man. Jesus said in John, the Father and I are one. Jesus is the Everlasting Father, as in Isaiah 9:6. I rather picture God as a Man in my mind than picture Him as something that cannot be seen. God the Creator will not make a cone of Himself,a son, with the same Divine Essence.

Thus spoke Jehovah your Redeemer, I am Jehovah the maker of all things, and I alone by myself. Isaiah 44:24. He said alone by Himself. This saying of the Father proves that there were no Son at creation. The Father became the Son, as in Isaiah 9:6, and in Luke 1:35. The Father became a Person, as in Luke 1:35. The Holy Spirit, which came upon Mary signifies Divine Truth. The power of the Most High, which overshadowed her, signifies the Divine Good. Divine Good and Divine Truth are the Essence of God, and is what God is. God is Divine Good and Divine Truth.

Harry :fadein:
 
gingercat said:
SpiritualSon said:
If He weren't Human, why did He create us in His image?


Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

God has feelings. That's what He means by image. God is Spirit and humans are not!
Click to expand...

Gingercat,
Man is also a spirit in a human body. His mind is the spirit.

Harry :fadein:
 
ASV
Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all his innermost parts.

YLT
1 Corinthians 2:10-12 but to us did God reveal them through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God, for who of men hath known the things of the man, except the spirit of the man that is in him? so also the things of God no one hath known, except the Spirit of God. And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that is of God, that we may know the things conferred by God on us,
 
SpiritualSon said:
gingercat said:
SpiritualSon said:
If He weren't Human, why did He create us in His image?


Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

God has feelings. That's what He means by image. God is Spirit and humans are not!
Click to expand...

Gingercat,
Man is also a spirit in a human body. His mind is the spirit.

Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

We are not the same as God. Image and reality are not the same thing.

Look, I am only speaking to the Christians. Because you don't believe in God this thread is not applicable to you. Do you get it? This is Bible thread. I hope you understand. I don't want to this thread to be hijacked by.
 
StoveBolts said:
ASV
Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all his innermost parts.
Click to expand...

There are many kinds of spirit. God and human are not same. Please be open and honest to the whole Bible. Don't hang up on the tiny part of It.

I will show you more about Jesus not being God and He is God's very first born and Creator.

I hope you are reading all of my posts in this thread, if you are not, you are wasting my time and yours. I will not engage in rabbit trail debate.

Thank you Jeff.
 
gingercat said:
SpiritualSon said:
If He weren't Human, why did He create us in His image?


Harry :fadein:
Click to expand...

God has feelings. That's what He means by image. God is Spirit and humans are not!
Click to expand...

Genesis 1:27 So God <'elohiym> created <bara'> man <'adam> in his own image <tselem>, in the image <tselem> of God <'elohiym> created <bara'> he him; male <zakar> and female <n@qebah> created <bara'> he them.

Image:
Strongs 6754. tselem
tselem tseh'-lem

from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol:--image, vain shew.

We have a spirit as well... It was breathed into Adam... You are speaking foolishly gingercat as your lack of scriputural knowledge is showing.
 
Stove, here is another clear verse about Jesus;

Rev 3:14 "...These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation."

There you see it again; Jesus is calling Himself as God's creation!!!!!!

PS, I have been using NIV.
 
StoveBolts said:
. You are speaking foolishly gingercat as your lack of scriputural knowledge is showing.
Click to expand...

You have been ignoring the obvious Bible verses. Why do you ignore everything else I have been quoting?
 
Stove, here is another clear verse about Jesus;

Rev 3:14 "...These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation."

There you see it again; Jesus is calling Himself as God's creation!!!!!!
Click to expand...

You utterly twisted that Scripture. The NIV translated it as ruler of God's creation. That in no way means He is part of God's Creation, though I believe He is.

I don't trust the NIV, so a better translation of that Scripture would be.

The Unveiling[Revelation] 3:14 (Concordant Literal New Testament) "And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Laodicea write: 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:

Now, it goes along with Jesus being a created being.
 
Gendou Ikari said:
You utterly twisted that Scripture. The NIV translated it as ruler of God's creation. That in no way means He is part of God's Creation, though I believe He is.

I don't trust the NIV, so a better translation of that Scripture would be.



Now, it goes along with Jesus being a created being.
Click to expand...


:smt119 :smt119 :smt119 :smt119 :smt119
 
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