God the Father created Jesus

[Imagican]

You're a 'funny guy' Jive.

Perhaps if you were to spend a little time among those that seek the 'truth', you yourself might find 'some'. Maybe not. But, there's no harm in 'trying'.

Since you seem to have such a 'positive idea' that Jesus IS God, why don't you share with the folks here the scripture that you have found that offer this 'revelation'. Either that, or simply tell us 'who' told you this? I am curious and more than willing to listen.

Thanks,

MEC

 

[jive]

You're a 'funny guy' Jive.

Perhaps if you were to spend a little time among those that seek the 'truth', you yourself might find 'some'. Maybe not. But, there's no harm in 'trying'.

Since you seem to have such a 'positive idea' that Jesus IS God, why don't you share with the folks here the scripture that you have found that offer this 'revelation'. Either that, or simply tell us 'who' told you this? I am curious and more than willing to listen.

Thanks,

MEC

:o i see u took my post the wrong way my man. i can see that in the part where u reply "pherhaps if you were to spend a little time among those that seek the truth" that you realy took me the wrong way, i AM those that seek the TRUTH.

part of the post i was joking. the bottom was serious, i have been taught that Jesus is God. who have i been tought that by........MAN, through the bible that has been transcribed by MAN. i dont have any for sure scripts to give, be it for or against the idea that Jesus is God........when i was taught that i was young so i took the preacher mans word for Truth, and didnt feel the need to explore it for myself, as i did with a lot of things.

now that im older and been through the whole "church" thing, i see so much error on their part. im opean to the TRUTH, no matter if does go against what i already thought to be true.

my post was a positive one to all, specaily toward you. specialy the begining of that post.

so i quess thats a no to the movie?

 

[Imagican]

Come on Jive, you don't have a monopoly on humor. I guess you just don't understand 'mine' yet. Stick around and you will.

I wasn't trying to be 'negative', just pokin' back at you.

Oh, and a movie sounds 'great', as long as it's NOT the Passion.

 

[ChristineES]

I am almost certain that there have been many posts showing when Jesus said He was God. I know I posted a few, and others have, too. They have either been ignored or dismissed.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one!

Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.


Those are a few. I know that you will say they something different. I know you will challenge me on this. But I just don't care anymore. I am not trying to convince you of anything, I am saying this to let you know what convinces me that Jesus is God.
God Bless You

 

[jive]

Come on Jive, you don't have a monopoly on humor. I guess you just don't understand 'mine' yet. Stick around and you will.

I wasn't trying to be 'negative', just pokin' back at you.

Oh, and a movie sounds 'great', as long as it's NOT the Passion.

Oh.......ok.......so it was me that mistook your post.

Anyway i was thinkin something more like Silent Hill, you know, somethin that will scare you right into my arms.

 

[gingercat]

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one!

Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Christine,

You have been ignoring obvious verses I quoted saying that Jesus is Son of God and He is not God the Father. You are the one who is ignoring the whole truth.

Those verses you are quoting, of course, they are one in spirit, because they are in harmony working together. To the Jewish mind (the Bible was written by Jews) one did not always mean number. When two people get married they are what? One flesh. That doesn't mean they morph into one person.
Also use any lexicon to look up the word "one" as used in those verses. They don't mean strictly "one" like we know it.

Please be open and honest to the whole truth. You are brain washed in churches' interpretation. I hope you start read the whole Bible insted of studying what churches offer at the Bible classes.

 

[ChristineES]

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one!

Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Christine,

You have been ignoring obvious verses I quoted saying that Jesus is Son of God and He is not God the Father. You are the one who is ignoring the whole truth.

Those verses you are quoting, of course, they are one in spirit, because they are in harmony working together. To the Jewish mind (the Bible was written by Jews) one did not always mean number. When two people get married they are what? One flesh. That doesn't mean they morph into one person.
Also use any lexicon to look up the word "one" as used in those verses. They don't mean strictly "one" like we know it.

Please be open and honest to the whole truth. You are brain washed in churches' interpretation. I hope you start read the whole Bible insted of studying what churches offer at the Bible classes.

Please stop trying to convince me of this. This "I am right and you are wrong" stuff is getting on my nerves. I believe that Jesus is God, and you don't. Live with it because I have. I am not going to change my beliefs any more than you are going to change yours.
Trust me, I have read every quote listed on this thread. I am not brain washed. You would not like it if I said that you were, so don't say I am. I have read The Bible, several times. At this moment I don't even have a church home (although I am looking for one). Everything I believe I read in the Bible myself. I have studied The Bible, as you have. I used to be a Southern Baptist, but I have not been to one is several years. I have been to other denominations.
Not every one is going to agree with you. Not everyone agrees with me. The best that you and I can do is post scriptures (as we all have been doing) to show what we believe and why we believe it.
I think you (and I) will be happier if we just do that and not try to convince others. And if we believe it to be The Truth we will know that we have planted a seed and maybe someone will learn to accept what we have.
:D
God Bless You!!

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Christine,

You have been ignoring obvious verses I quoted saying that Jesus is Son of God and He is not God the Father. You are the one who is ignoring the whole truth.

Those verses you are quoting, of course, they are one in spirit, because they are in harmony working together. To the Jewish mind (the Bible was written by Jews) one did not always mean number. When two people get married they are what? One flesh. That doesn't mean they morph into one person.
Also use any lexicon to look up the word "one" as used in those verses. They don't mean strictly "one" like we know it.

Please be open and honest to the whole truth. You are brain washed in churches' interpretation. I hope you start read the whole Bible insted of studying what churches offer at the Bible classes.

Gingercat,
You seem to be unfamiliar with Christian beliefs on the nature and divinity of God and Jesus. As I and others have stated (I even provided links to a good site that will explain Trinitarian beliefs) that we (Orthodox Christians) believe Jesus and God the father are not the same “person†but the same in essence, one God.

I will provide some helpful links one more time:

Christian Doctrine
Christian Doctrine Part two
Essential Doctrines of Christianity
What is the Trinity?
Response to criticism of "What is the Trinity?"
The Trinity
Another Look at the Trinity
The Plurality Study
The Holy Spirit

This page on carm also is quite helpful…it has links to many of the links above and others as well:

Christian Doctrine

Hopefully you will just merely read them so you can get an accurate picture of what Orthodox Christians believe. Whether you accept and believe them is between you and God. Neither I nor anyone else can coerce you to belief of course.

 

[TruthMiner]

"Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? " (Proverbs 8:1).

I did not bring this verse. What this verse anything to do with my OP?

My point is that Jesus is God's first creation. I have been showing the verses to back it up! Please don't beat aroung the bush like you always do. I don't play games. :evil:

Perhaps you need a short lesson on interpreting Scripture.

Rule No. 1 - it is very bad practice to read anything INTO the Scriptures such as you did in your original post.

Rule No. 2 - you need to consider the context of any verse you read. The context of your original post indicates at verse 8:1 just "WHO" is in view in the verses you posted.

Perhaps you wished to ignore the context and read into the text whatever notions that suited your fancies but it doesn't amount to reality.

 

[gingercat]

"Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? " (Proverbs 8:1).

I did not bring this verse. What this verse anything to do with my OP?

My point is that Jesus is God's first creation. I have been showing the verses to back it up! Please don't beat aroung the bush like you always do. I don't play games. :evil:

Perhaps you need a short lesson on interpreting Scripture.

Rule No. 1 - it is very bad practice to read anything INTO the Scriptures such as you did in your original post.

Rule No. 2 - you need to consider the context of any verse you read. The context of your original post indicates at verse 8:1 just "WHO" is in view in the verses you posted.

Perhaps you wished to ignore the context and read into the text whatever notions that suited your fancies but it doesn't amount to reality.

Make your point clear, dear. I did not ignore the context. Just because you don't agree with me does not mean I ignored it. You seem to to be just nitpiking on everyone.

 

[TruthMiner]

"Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? " (Proverbs 8:1).

I did not bring this verse. What this verse anything to do with my OP?

My point is that Jesus is God's first creation. I have been showing the verses to back it up! Please don't beat aroung the bush like you always do. I don't play games. :evil:

Perhaps you need a short lesson on interpreting Scripture.

Rule No. 1 - it is very bad practice to read anything INTO the Scriptures such as you did in your original post.

Rule No. 2 - you need to consider the context of any verse you read. The context of your original post indicates at verse 8:1 just "WHO" is in view in the verses you posted.

Perhaps you wished to ignore the context and read into the text whatever notions that suited your fancies but it doesn't amount to reality.

Make your point clear, dear. I did not ignore the context. Just because you don't agree with me does not mean I ignored it. You seem to to be just nitpiking on everyone.

Well if you don't get the point by now I don't think there's much hope.

 

[gingercat]

Gingercat,
You seem to be unfamiliar with Christian beliefs on the nature and divinity of God and Jesus.

When I became Christian 7 years ago, I was told by many if you don't believe in trinity you are not Christian. So I just blindly accepted it even though I never understood what they are talking about.

But since I started to doubt the trinity teaching and study for myself, I am convinced that's not true.

Thanks for your information but no thanks.

 

[gingercat]

Well if you don't get the point by now I don't think there's much hope.

Truth,

You are not my kind. You are too smart for me, sorry. :o

 

[Klee shay]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

 

[mutzrein]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

It doesn't - unless you are a trinitarian it seems.

But out of interest are there any trinitarians that believe one can accept Jesus is the son of God rather than be God, and still be 'saved'.

 

[gingercat]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

It does not make any difference. That's my point. Many churches claim that if you are not trinitarian you are not Christian. Ask any trinitarian, that's what they tell you! :-?

 

[Imagican]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

Klee shay,

If Jesus is NOT God, then those that worship Him as such have broken the FIRST commandment. They quite possibly have made Jesus nothing more than an empty idol by turning Him into something that 'doesn't' exist.

We are told that we are to worship ONLY one God AS God. To try and turn Jesus into God also means that those that do so are NOT worshiping ONLY one God, but TWO Gods.

Please note that I offered 'IF'. So, 'trins', please don't start 'bashing' me for offering a 'possible' answer to the question posed.

 

[gingercat]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

Klee shay,

If Jesus is NOT God, then those that worship Him as such have broken the FIRST commandment. They quite possibly have made Jesus nothing more than an empty idol by turning Him into something that 'doesn't' exist.

We are told that we are to worship ONLY one God AS God. To try and turn Jesus into God also means that those that do so are NOT worshiping ONLY one God, but TWO Gods.

Please note that I offered 'IF'. So, 'trins', please don't start 'bashing' me for offering a 'possible' answer to the question posed.

Thank you Imagican, you pointed out my blind spot.

 

[Johny]

John 20:26-29:

26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


Isaiah 9:6:

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Gingercat, I'd like to see you refute this.

Once again, could someone quote this for me?

 

[Sothenes]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

It doesn't - unless you are a trinitarian it seems.

But out of interest are there any trinitarians that believe one can accept Jesus is the son of God rather than be God, and still be 'saved'.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (ego eimi) [he], ye shall die in your sins.

Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus is the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14 and if you don't believe what He said about Himself then His words in John 8:24 are what counts.